Touchy subject - fraudulent CGC books being sold?!

[Bosco685]

For those that have been collecting graded books for some time now, go easy on me with this question. I've been out of collecting for a long time. So coming back into the hobby I love and finding out there was a company that would not only grade books accurately, but also conduct a restoration check, I was overjoyed!

 

Someone clued me into a posting today about a seller that many on this forum were accusing of reselling restored books. I am not taking sides, so no legal warning emails from anyone that their attorney is going to take action against me.

 

What worried me more was the mention that folks figured out how to break into the CGC case, swap the book out, and then offer the book at the original grade on the label.

 

1) Is this really happening? I won't ask how frequently, as that would require taking a statistical sample of every book sold to figure it out.

 

2) Are there people cracking and resealing these books without being able to tell that this occurred?

 

3) Are there any signs you can look for which indicate tampering has taken place?

 

4) Are they able to break into the inner well and then seal it back up?

 

I know, sounds ignorant, but my peaceful little collecting world was rocked when I read this, as I had been told by a few folks these cases were tamper-proof, and you could easily tell a case had been cracked into.

[thehumantorch]

Someone clued me into a posting today about a seller that many on this forum were accusing of reselling restored books. I am not taking sides, so no legal warning emails from anyone that their attorney is going to take action against me.

 

Do you have a link

[MR.COMICBOOK]

For those that have been collecting graded books for some time now, go easy on me with this question. I've been out of collecting for a long time. So coming back into the hobby I love and finding out there was a company that would not only grade books accurately, but also conduct a restoration check, I was overjoyed!

 

Someone clued me into a posting today about a seller that many on this forum were accusing of reselling restored books. I am not taking sides, so no legal warning emails from anyone that their attorney is going to take action against me.

 

What worried me more was the mention that folks figured out how to break into the CGC case, swap the book out, and then offer the book at the original grade on the label.

 

1) Is this really happening? I won't ask how frequently, as that would require taking a statistical sample of every book sold to figure it out.

 

2) Are there people cracking and resealing these books without being able to tell that this occurred?

 

3) Are there any signs you can look for which indicate tampering has taken place?

 

4) Are they able to break into the inner well and then seal it back up?

 

I know, sounds ignorant, but my peaceful little collecting world was rocked when I read this, as I had been told by a few folks these cases were tamper-proof, and you could easily tell a case had been cracked into.

I like to know more about it myself as I have seen CGC 9.6 on other auctions sites that don`t even look like 6.5.

[BaltimoreLauren]

I think I read somewhere on these boards that it was easier to do this with the older casing styles, but the new ones are harder to do that with. My dad bought a CGC book that he had thought had been tampered with. We sent it to CGC who told him it had not been, but they re-cased it for him anyhow.

[paperheart]

odds of lightning strike 280,000 to 1. odds of getting a tainted slab- somewhat lower.

[Bosco685]

Thanks Lauren. I appreciate the helpful post, and figured CGC would jump on any suspected books immediately.

 

From some of the postings I am reading as a newbie here, it sounds like this is very well known certain sellers are popping cases open and then reselling books.

 

I'd like to know much more about this as after buying many CGC books the past year alone, now I want to know what to watch for. Any additional information is appreciated as nobody ever wants to get burned if they can help it.

 

Is this a common reality, or just folks talking out-of-turn and bringing on unnecessary concerns? I'll call CGC directly as well to get additional details, but it would be nice to hear it from fellow collectors.

[Bosco685]

By the way, I am overjoyed I found this forum as the education I am getting on different topics is worth its weight in Action Comics #1's.

 

Okay, maybe not that high a price, but at least a case of Speedball Specials.

 

All the best, and Happy New Year

[Mephisto]

I believe a long time ago, in the days of Bugaboo, Hammer may have written a detailed post on how to crack a slab and swap books, and it was pulled by CGC. This was in the days when labels weren't sealed in the inner well.

[Mac Man]

I'm not so sure about people switching books out of cases, however, I do know that some members here witnesses dealers at a large-scale convention recently cracking purple label books (the restored books) and then selling them raw as unrestored. This is essentially the same thing minus the use of a CGC slab--both extremely despicable behaviors.

 

Unfortunately, you'll see some lowly behavior but if it's being perpetrated by a board member, whoa! Watch out as we have some lawyers here who will take you to the mattresses for that sort of stuff.

[Flaming_Telepath]

I have been led to believe that there is currently an issue with this and that CGC are aware. One of the boarders here has more information, but I think that it's 'need to know', as action is/was pending?

[jimjum12]

I've cracked a lot of slabs....and have only had one where all 4 posts remained intact. In this day and age there is very little left in the realms of impossibility...but I doubt this occurs with any frequency. Your best bet is to buy the book and not the grade. Require large scans for large purchases and call CGC for graders notes...make sure the defects from their notes match the ones in the scan.Do your homework.GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[thehumantorch]

I have been led to believe that there is currently an issue with this and that CGC are aware. One of the boarders here has more information, but I think that it's 'need to know', as action is/was pending?

 

If someone has figured a way to switch books without detection it would invalidate every book in a current CGC case. Scary thought.

[comicgrinder]

I have been led to believe that there is currently an issue with this and that CGC are aware. One of the boarders here has more information, but I think that it's 'need to know', as action is/was pending?

 

If someone has figured a way to switch books without detection it would invalidate every book in a current CGC case. Scary thought.

that was exactly what I was JUST thinking

[Bosco685]

Amen!

 

These educated responses are bringing me much more comfort as some of the postings would lead a new member to believe we have a rampant problem.

 

But I have heard about folks cracking restored book cases and reselling raw, and that can only be caught when you resubmit.

 

Thanks to all for the understanding on the topic, and the helpful information.

[Aces]

I have been led to believe that there is currently an issue with this and that CGC are aware. One of the boarders here has more information, but I think that it's 'need to know', as action is/was pending?

 

If someone has figured a way to switch books without detection it would invalidate every book in a current CGC case. Scary thought.

Not the books I submit personally.

[Aces]

I've cracked a lot of slabs....and have only had one where all 4 posts remained intact. In this day and age there is very little left in the realms of impossibility...but I doubt this occurs with any frequency. Your best bet is to buy the book and not the grade. Require large scans for large purchases and call CGC for graders notes...make sure the defects from their notes match the ones in the scan.Do your homework.GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

You only have to get two posts popped to slide the inner well out.

[thehumantorch]

I have been led to believe that there is currently an issue with this and that CGC are aware. One of the boarders here has more information, but I think that it's 'need to know', as action is/was pending?

 

If someone has figured a way to switch books without detection it would invalidate every book in a current CGC case. Scary thought.

that was exactly what I was JUST thinking

 

We think alike? Yeek

[joe_collector]

With the first versions of the CGC slab, it is incredibly easy to switch labels (buy a 9.6 and a 9.0, then switch labels and resub the 9.6 - rinse and repeat) or to simply create your own CGC labels using a color laser.

 

I have seen many examples of this, and even kept a scan of a fake Hulk 181 label as proof.

[bghkoyama]

This happened in the card grading world a few years back. It got so rampant that the FBI got involved. I think (and my memory ain't what it used to be), it was an ebayer that went by the name, When It was a game (WIWAG for short). They had high grade slabbed cards, cracked them out and replaced them with lesser grade cards and sold them on ebay.

 

Brian

[Bosco685]

WOW!

 

So will the posts shatter so we can at least look for some form of cloudy appearance from plastic breaking, or do they just come out?

 

There is only one book I am concerned with that I'll contact CGC, as the comic seems to slide around easily within the inner well, and I have no other comics that do this. Unfortunately, it is a House of Secrets 92. If that book was swapped, it is going to be a sad day in boscotown.

 

Now you see why I am asking all the questions after reading those various posts. Before I just thought it was an ill-fitting inner well casing. Now I'm very worried!