OT- A-ROID tested postive in 03

[joe_collector]

yes while we all can agree that bonds was a d-bag, but he won 3 MVP awards, and should be 4 in a row, if he didn't get robbed by the braves terry pendleton, before he started using the cream and the clear. that's pretty dominating to me.

 

Yeah, Bonds is a great player, and even without steroids, he'd be in the Hall of Fame, but steroids certainly elongated his career and helped him overcome some serious and dehabilitating injuries. Bonds didn't become a better hitter or more powerful, he just got a "career extension".

 

Without roids he would not have broken Aaron's record, as his back would have seized up before then.

[conditionfreak]

I guess the ends justify the means to many fans.

 

How can Bonds and the like, be in the Hall of Fame and Pete Rose can't? All they can prove is that he either bet on other teams not playing his own team, or bet on his own team. He never bet against his own team.

 

P.S. I do not think that Rose should be in the HOF, but fair is fair. You use a performance enhancing drug and you get in? You bet on your own team and don't get in?

 

I do not believe that anyone who it is proven, used performance enhancing drugs during their performing career, should be allowed in the HOF. Same for the Olympics, right? They lose their medals if it is proven.

 

Hulk Hogan's story might be a little different, since the WWF is not a real sport and you can't bet on it in Vegas or just about anywhere else, except with your buddy.

 

There are many truck drivers and the like, that use drugs to keep on truckin'. But they don't have a HOF, are not bet for or against, and except to their own children, are not roll models generally. Major sports is a whole different ball game, to make a pun.

[Ariamus]

When this guy went from a marginal utility man to an all-star after working out with Schwarzenegger and others, it wasn't long until the problem started spreading.

Things I don't know...

...I don't know if Brian Downing did steroids.

 

Things I do know...

...Brian Downing wasn't a "marginal utility man" before he was an all-star (his only All Star selection was in 1979). He wasn't a utility man; he was the Angels' starting catcher for a few years running.

...after his All-Star year, the only one he had, he managed several 20+ homer seasons by which time he was no longer a regular catcher but he was never an All-Star again.

...the card above is from the 1987 season, by which time Downing's career was pretty much done.

[Claudio]

 

Yeah, Bonds is a great player, and even without steroids, he'd be in the Hall of Fame, but steroids certainly elongated his career and helped him overcome some serious and dehabilitating injuries. Bonds didn't become a better hitter or more powerful, he just got a "career extension".

 

Without roids he would not have broken Aaron's record, as his back would have seized up before then.

 

Not more powerful? Have you seen the moon shots he hit towards the end of his career??? Waaaaaay more powerful after he started juicing.

[joe_collector]

P.S. I do not think that Rose should be in the HOF, but fair is fair. You use a performance enhancing drug and you get in? You bet on your own team and don't get in?

 

One was against the MLB rules at the time, and one wasn't.

 

You do realize the agreement really didn't come into effect until 2002 and only really got tough in 2005.

[supapimp]

P.S. I do not think that Rose should be in the HOF, but fair is fair. You use a performance enhancing drug and you get in? You bet on your own team and don't get in?

 

One was against the MLB rules at the time, and one wasn't.

 

You do realize the agreement didn't come into effect until 2002 and only really got tough in 2005.

 

yep, the cream and the clear wasn't on the steroid list until 04 and HGH and steroids weren't illegal in BB yet.

[Monstro]

i don't blame the players, i blame MLB for this. like JC said the players had to juice if the wanted to compete.

 

how Selig is still Commissioner. it makes me shake my head.

[Monstro]

but i do think using steroids enhances these guys ability to play baseball. It wouldn’t do a dam bit of good to you or me, but these guys are experts and the extra strength and speed without a doubt elevates their game.

[THE_BEYONDER]

i don't blame the players, i blame MLB for this. like JC said the players had to juice if the wanted to compete.

 

how Selig is still Commissioner. it makes me shake my head.

 

Sounds like the same argument used for pressing......

[Monstro]

yes it does

[PokerKid]

When this guy went from a marginal utility man to an all-star after working out with Schwarzenegger and others, it wasn't long until the problem started spreading.

Things I don't know...

...I don't know if Brian Downing did steroids.

 

Things I do know...

...Brian Downing wasn't a "marginal utility man" before he was an all-star (his only All Star selection was in 1979). He wasn't a utility man; he was the Angels' starting catcher for a few years running.

...after his All-Star year, the only one he had, he managed several 20+ homer seasons by which time he was no longer a regular catcher but he was never an All-Star again.

...the card above is from the 1987 season, by which time Downing's career was pretty much done.

 

He was a starting catcher for one season before the all-star year. He played only 173 games for Chicago in the two years before that . Brian's physique in 1979 was dramatically different than 1977 and in his time was dramatically more muscular than most players (probably not by today's standards) to the point he had to tear the "V" in the neck of his uniform to make it more comfortable.

 

He was a great player, but his hitting the gym an his sudden improvement certainly got a lot of attention. He never did stop hitting the gym, even in the years he continued playing - six more years and 750+ games after you say his career was pretty much done. And his multiple years of 20 or more homers after nine years of never hitting more than 12 seems to go with the idea of something changing.

 

As for utility - he played 3B, LF, RF, C and DH in his first few seasons.

[TheWatcher]

Compete? It wasn't so much so they could compete as it was so they could get their payday. Owners and GMs pay ridiculous money if you can hit the ball out of the ballpark. Players saw this and they wanted their piece of the pie. Look at the money Texas threw at Gary Matthews Jr or that the Dodgers gave Andruw Jones. Chicks dig the long ball (thumbs u

[Claudio]

P.S. I do not think that Rose should be in the HOF, but fair is fair. You use a performance enhancing drug and you get in? You bet on your own team and don't get in?

 

One was against the MLB rules at the time, and one wasn't.

 

You do realize the agreement didn't come into effect until 2002 and only really got tough in 2005.

 

yep, the cream and the clear wasn't on the steroid list until 04 and HGH and steroids weren't illegal in BB yet.

Who cares if baseball didn't specifically ban it. IT WAS ILLEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES!!!! Does baseball have to ban everything that is illegal? Baseball should have a rule that you can't forge checks.... Baseball should have a rule that you can't rape the batboys... Baseball should have a rule that you can't murder ex-girlfriends!!! Who cares if it wasn't against baseball's rules!?

[conditionfreak]

P.S. I do not think that Rose should be in the HOF, but fair is fair. You use a performance enhancing drug and you get in? You bet on your own team and don't get in?

 

One was against the MLB rules at the time, and one wasn't.

 

You do realize the agreement really didn't come into effect until 2002 and only really got tough in 2005.

 

Naw. I don't keep up with sports that much. Why would I root for laundry?

 

Having said that. You do realize that some who had stellar seasons after 2002 and 2005, are going into the HOF.

 

A-roid tested positive in 2003, the year he was MVP. It wasn't against the rules then apparently. But he isn't going into the HOF for just that time period. It includes before, during and after, one can only assume. I don't recall any "one season wonders" in the HOF. Roger Clemens will make it into the HOF, and not only is he a juicer, he is a liar under oath. To Congress no less.

 

The ends justify the means to the fanboys, usually.

[500Club]

Not exactly.... performance is definitely aided. See Bret Boone, for example, or T Hundley, guys who vanished after steroid use was tested for, and penalized. One player (don't recall who) summed it up as 'warning track power becoming home run power'.

 

Sure, but it's mostly in the wrists and using your body for leverage, and around the year Brady Anderson hit 50, a lot of people got career highs for HRs... mostly due to the juiced ball. It was proven these were changed to accommodate a new rubber ring around the core and machine-wound tighter, and although MLB denies there is any difference, that's pretty insane if you ask me.

 

I think a University did a study where the new balls were found to fly 40-50 feet longer than the older design. That's pretty significant.

 

Sure, steroids, lighter and faster maple bats, horrible pitching, expansion, fast-tracking young pitchers to the majors, and a zillion other reasons contributed, but there were games where a stringbean pitcher would just wave at a ball and it would fly out of the park.

 

Agreed on all points.

 

I'm going to argue that steroids were the major factor, though, based on the MLB average for HR/game dramatically dropping over the last 2 seasons.

[supapimp]

i don't blame the players, i blame MLB for this. like JC said the players had to juice if the wanted to compete.

 

how Selig is still Commissioner. it makes me shake my head.

 

Sounds like the same argument used for pressing......

 

[500Club]

Compete? It wasn't so much so they could compete as it was so they could get their payday. Owners and GMs pay ridiculous money if you can hit the ball out of the ballpark. Players saw this and they wanted their piece of the pie. Look at the money Texas threw at Gary Matthews Jr or that the Dodgers gave Andruw Jones. Chicks dig the long ball (thumbs u

 

Yes, and the only honest guy of the bunch, Giambi, conceded as much. If a 6M contract/yr is at stake, and everyone else is playing juiced, not many competitors are going to take the clean route.

[supapimp]

P.S. I do not think that Rose should be in the HOF, but fair is fair. You use a performance enhancing drug and you get in? You bet on your own team and don't get in?

 

One was against the MLB rules at the time, and one wasn't.

 

You do realize the agreement didn't come into effect until 2002 and only really got tough in 2005.

 

yep, the cream and the clear wasn't on the steroid list until 04 and HGH and steroids weren't illegal in BB yet.

Who cares if baseball didn't specifically ban it. IT WAS ILLEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES!!!! Does baseball have to ban everything that is illegal? Baseball should have a rule that you can't forge checks.... Baseball should have a rule that you can't rape the batboys... Baseball should have a rule that you can't murder ex-girlfriends!!! Who cares if it wasn't against baseball's rules!?

 

your argument is pointless, marijuana is illegal in the US too, but it's not tested for in the NBA. that's why league's have a union, if it's not a law within the sport or the union, then it's not illegal.

[THE_BEYONDER]

i don't blame the players, i blame MLB for this. like JC said the players had to juice if the wanted to compete.

 

how Selig is still Commissioner. it makes me shake my head.

 

Sounds like the same argument used for pressing......

 

 

Why is this thread even here? Steroids in baseball? Take it to the WC.

[Claudio]

P.S. I do not think that Rose should be in the HOF, but fair is fair. You use a performance enhancing drug and you get in? You bet on your own team and don't get in?

 

One was against the MLB rules at the time, and one wasn't.

 

You do realize the agreement didn't come into effect until 2002 and only really got tough in 2005.

 

yep, the cream and the clear wasn't on the steroid list until 04 and HGH and steroids weren't illegal in BB yet.

Who cares if baseball didn't specifically ban it. IT WAS ILLEGAL IN THE UNITED STATES!!!! Does baseball have to ban everything that is illegal? Baseball should have a rule that you can't forge checks.... Baseball should have a rule that you can't rape the batboys... Baseball should have a rule that you can't murder ex-girlfriends!!! Who cares if it wasn't against baseball's rules!?

 

your argument is pointless, marijuana is illegal in the US too, but it's not tested for in the NBA. that's why league's have a union, if it's not a law within the sport or the union, then it's not illegal.

 

However, if players get caught with marijuana, they do get fined and (i believe) suspended. Remember all the fuss with the Portland players who were caught?