Daredevil 158 or 168, who wins?

[minutekev@50]

Inspired by Kermit's, Spidey 238-300 thread, I thought I'd start a post about another two books relevant to the Modern Age...DD 158 and 168. I read somewhere that 168 sells more because that's the first app. of Electra plus Miller takes over the writing chores as well. On the other hand 158 has always been acknowledged as the first Frank Miller on Daredevil.

So, which is worth more in the long run?

[rob_react]

Easily 168 because of 1st Elektra and 1st Miller -script.

[Zonker]

In my opinion, 168 is the ground-breaker. Early Miller art is nice, but not ground-breaking. With 168, when Miller took over the scripting as well as art and created Elektra, etc. he really started rockin our world.

 

I'd think of 158 as the counterpart to that DC Special Series first Miller Batman art job. A curiosity, but not in the same league at all as Dark Knight Returns #1.

 

[Solar]

158 isnt even the first Frank Miller Daredevil. That's PPSSM 27. DD 158 is only the first miller art on the actual Daredevil title. 168 is a much better book.

[localshop]

Also, isn't there talk of keeping an Elektra movie franchise going?

[delekkerste]

Easily #168. I've been saying that for years, even when #158 was listed higher in all the Guides and was commanding more $ from dealers (no less an authority than BronzeBruce can back me up on this ). Next to #181 and #227, #168 has the best Miller DD story, it was the first Elektra and first Miller both scripting & drawing, and it has a tough black cover and the print run had an unusual amount of production defects. Yes, it's an easy book to find and was hoarded, but there's also much more demand for this issue than #158 and I expect this gap to widen, if anything, going forward (maybe not in the Guide, but in the marketplace certainly).

 

Gene

[uclapeterg]

168. Yes, there's an Electra movie in the works and then Daredevil 2.

[shiverbones]

168 for sure, but i like 158's cover way better!

[seank]

168 would win because of the first Electra appearance, but for story and cover, 158 is a better book. The story in 168 is weak. Miller was just starting to get his writing chops warmed up.

[delekkerste]

...but for story and cover, 158 is a better book. The story in 168 is weak. Miller was just starting to get his writing chops warmed up.

 

 

#158 has a better story??? A bunch of goofy Ani-Men kidnap Matt Murdock and then he fights Deathstalker? IMO, story-wise, #158 is no better than most of the other '70s DD issues. #168 is an absolutely outstanding stand-alone issue featuring some of the most memorable moments in DD's history: The awesome Elektra origin flashback, Turk and Grotto really coming into their own as supporting characters/villains, the unforgettable finale - "Hit 'em low, Olive Oil!" IMO, only #181 and #227 surpass #168 in terms of quality and you can probably find a few people who consider #168 to be Miller's finest DD moment (I think Rob_React is one of them).

 

Gene

[localshop]

Yes, but when was quality attached to a books status as a key?

 

He asks, standing back and waiting for the

[Darthdiesel]

168 definitely all due to Elektra and the kick arse cover; color, action - it all looks great.

 

with 158, other than the cool 40 cent logo , the villain is not memorable and I can't even tell you what goes on in that issue and I must have read the Miller run a couple times just to know what I was flipping back in Winter of 2002?

 

The Winner: DD 168

[Kevin Boyd]

168 is the clear winner.

 

Kev

[SilverAgeGuy]

Oh cummon Darth, who could forget Deathstalker or whatever his name was, materializing into a gravestone and buying the farm on the spot. Clearly 168 is still the winner though!

[supapimp]

either way as i mentioned last year in a thread, both books took a huge jump in this years OS guide.

[Foolkiller]

No contest: 168.

[seank]

I'll stand by DD 168 being a lame story.

 

Boy meets girl.

Boy loses girl.

Boy is depressed.

 

Woo hoo.

 

Miller's ending is sappy and sentimental, designed to artifically tug at your heartstrings.

 

Compare how you feel on reading Electra's death scene in 181 to reading 168. By 181, Miller was master of his domain. 168 is a sophmoric effort at best. The fact that it may be better than most other comic book stories of the time says little for comic book stories of the time.

 

[delekkerste]

I'll stand by DD 168 being a lame story.

 

Boy meets girl.

Boy loses girl.

Boy is depressed.

 

Woo hoo.

 

Miller's ending is sappy and sentimental, designed to artifically tug at your heartstrings.

 

Compare how you feel on reading Electra's death scene in 181 to reading 168. By 181, Miller was master of his domain. 168 is a sophmoric effort at best. The fact that it may be better than most other comic book stories of the time says little for comic book stories of the time.

 

Where's Rob_React when you really need him?

 

Gene

[supapimp]

what about the fact that miller woven that part of the story into his origin? that should count for something.

[Bonds25]

In the long run, no one will remember Frank Miller, but they'll certainly remember Elektra. #168 in a landslide!