Signing Limits

[MedicAR]

Looking over the comments coming out of NYCC, I see a lot of guests are placing limits on how many items they will sign. I'm not saying they should sign everything laid out in front of them, or that they somehow "owe us" but I am wondering if their limits are an unanticipated side effect of CGC SS?

 

I'm not trying to start a complaint/whining thread but rather a reasonable discussion about why the guests are doing it. Are they seeing their signatures sold online and trying to limit profiteering? As a rule, I try to get two books signed by a creator for the simple reason I want one to keep and one to sell to offset my costs. This isn't always true, but it's a general rule.

 

Titan books appears to have sponsored (at least in part) his trip to the U.S. which can't be cheap. I'm okay with them requiring that you purchase one of their books to be signed and happy that they allowed two other items as well, even though I didn't have anything done by him. Is the additional two item limit to keep the line moving and thus make more money for Titan? Or does Mr. Gibbons want to please the maximum number of fans?

 

I'm both suprised and pleased that there are still enough fans for Joe Simon to limit himself to two items. Does he do it, again, to get the maximum number of fans or because of his health, or to try (I emphasize try) to keep the line moving?

 

I can see Jim Lee having a limit, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall him having one prior to NYCC. When he was in KC he would sign book after book for the same person, literally stacks of books.

 

Just curious if anyone has any insights as to the limits placed on signatures?

 

 

[comix4fun]

 

Just curious if anyone has any insights as to the limits placed on signatures?

 

 

 

Well since I spent the entire weekend behind an artist's alley table I can give you our rationale behind signature limits. I was handling Brian Bolland's table for him.

 

2 years ago in NYC we set up 3 signing times of 1:30 minutes each (which wound up stretching to 2 hours or more each time). We wound up with hundreds of people in line and blocking the tables of several other artists. We imposed a 3 book/item limit per person per time in line to simply get the line moving, get out of the other artists' way and to get as many fans as possible the signatures they wanted.

 

It was better to give everyone 3 signatures than to give one guy 50 signatures while the line stacked up behind him. This is especially true with an artist like Brian. His signature is long and slow and spelled out clearly to the last letter. I would guess Jim Lee or Adam Hughes could sign 5 books in the time it takes Brian to sign one. Also he wants to talk to each fan, find out where they are from, answer their questions, etc. So it's more of an experience than an assembly line.

 

At this year's NYC show we did something different. We had the same 3 book limit per time in line, but this time if the line was not bad or if time permitted we allowed people to bring more than 3 books and every book after the third was a $3 donation to the Hero Initiative.

 

Brian doesn't care about people making money off his signature as long as he feels that he gets to give as many fans as possible the sig they want. So the guys with 30-40 books got their books signed at the table, Brian would stop signing their books and sign for people who came up with 1-3 pieces or wanted a photograph with him, then go back to signing their stack.

 

Some people gave larger donations to Hero. One guy had 13 books and 13 trading cards and donated $100 to hero. One guy had 2 extra books but threw $20 into the kitty for Hero.

 

All told by the end of Sunday's signing we had signed pretty much everything for everyone that wanted them and we raised a $300-400 for Hero in the process.

 

I hope that explains at least one artist's insight into signing limits.

 

Best,

C

[SignatureSelect]

jim lee didn't have a limit at the NYCC I saw him twice. once he signed 10 for me and I got the rest later at a signing where he had absolutely no limit.

[MedicAR]

Well since I spent the entire weekend behind an artist's alley table I can give you our rationale behind signature limits. I was handling Brian Bolland's table for him.....

....I hope that explains at least one artist's insight into signing limits.

 

Best,

C

 

All of that makes perfect sense as well. I like the idea of donations for HERO. When I met John Romita Sr. in San Diego, he was signing for HERO (ACTOR at the time...) and would sign any number of books for any donation. I plopped $40 in and came away with a signed and minimally sketched backboard, the guy in front of me gave a buck (yes, ONE dollar) and got nearly a short box signed. He was technically within his rights, but defeated the spirit of the signing, so I like the way Bolland does it much more.

 

While I dislike the assembly line process, I understand it too. I'd love to shoot the breeze with Jim Lee for a little while, but I know there are about 10,000-40,000 others that would too depending on the show.

 

I like the Mr. Bolland wants to speak with the fans and takes the time. That's the height of class in my book!

(thumbs u

[MedicAR]

jim lee didn't have a limit at the NYCC I saw him twice. once he signed 10 for me and I got the rest later at a signing where he had absolutely no limit.

 

I was thinking I read that he was ticketed and only two items per person.

[Kevin Boyd]

Signing limits have been a necessary crowd control tool for comic book conventions and store signings pretty much for as long as I've been reading comics. The limits imposed mostly have to do with the size of the crowd, the limitations set by the creator (if health is an issue) and the time the creator is available.

 

Some artists impose their own limits, others don't care. Some will sign multiple copies of the same book, others won't. Some charge, some don't.

 

 

[Turtle]

As a non-witness, I appreciate signing limits at least at scheduled signings. The secret invasion signing had no limits and a LOT of people walked away unhappy since they just wasted about an hour of con time with nothing to show for it.

 

Similar deal happened to me at WWTX. I was in the John Cassaday line. They capped the signing and I was on the wrong side of the cap, but they said they'd let us through if he made it through the rest of the line in time. Things were looking great until the last two people in front of us busted out a short box each. Those 2 took 15 minutes each. I can't complain since I was first in line for when John got back from his panel and he sketched a few things for me, but I still missed out on about 3.5 hours of the show as a result.

 

If the creator is sitting at his/her own table, let the creator impose his/her own rules; No limit, leave the stack to be picked up later, or limit the signings and have them go through the line again. But from a fan perspective, a lot more people benefit from signing limitations.

 

Most signing limits help the line move much faster than it otherwise would. If the line's moving at a reasonable pace, more fans get their stuff signed and people with big stacks can get through the line multiple times. This may be a little more of a hassle for people with big stacks, but more people overall are happier.

 

My

[Drakeprimeone]

Things were looking great until the last two people in front of us busted out a short box each. Those 2 took 15 minutes each.

 

A whole short box of comics to sign

 

Am I out of line in thinking thats just a little over the top? I'd personally be embarrassed to be standing there while everyone in line behind me was burning daggers into the back of my head.

[Par2ch]

My 2cents,

 

Signing limits are fine by me as long as they are clearly stated before getting in line. I dont mind if you bring a bunch of books to have signed, What IRKs me to no end are are following

 

People that:

 

1. DO NOT HAVE BOOKS READY TO BE SIGNED (out of bags and board if not using a window bag0

 

2. CUT THE LINE BECAUSE THEY ONLY HAVE ONE BOOK TO SIGN

 

3. TELL THIER LIFE STORY TO THE CREATOR EVEN WHEN THERE IS A LINE OF A MILE LONG BEHIND THEM

 

4. PEOPLE STOPING IN THE MIDDLE OF AISLES TO TAKE PICTURES

 

 

Just my 2cents

[Drakeprimeone]

My 2cents,

 

Signing limits are fine by me as long as they are clearly stated before getting in line. I dont mind if you bring a bunch of books to have signed, What IRKs me to no end are are following

 

People that:

 

3. TELL THIER LIFE STORY TO THE CREATOR EVEN WHEN THERE IS A LINE OF A MILE LONG BEHIND THEM

 

 

Just my 2cents

 

This happened to me and my unfortunate witness while I was in line to get Suydam's sig at WWTX.

 

My witness was cool enough to give me his cell # and let me call him when I made it to the front of the line. The line was long but moving along nicely so I called him once there were only 2 people ahead of me and the guy infront decided to have a lengthy discussion with him (Suydum).

[MedicAR]

Signing limits have been a necessary crowd control tool for comic book conventions and store signings pretty much for as long as I've been reading comics. The limits imposed mostly have to do with the size of the crowd, the limitations set by the creator (if health is an issue) and the time the creator is available.

 

Some artists impose their own limits, others don't care. Some will sign multiple copies of the same book, others won't. Some charge, some don't.

 

 

While I've been collecting for nearly 30 years, signings are still a new concept to me. I had never seen limits prior to the last few years when the CGC SS piqued my interest and hadn't noticed comments about limitations until the last year or so. Until that point, I had only purchased books after they were signed rather than sending them to a Witness.

 

I'm all for an artist doing as they please. One item or a dozen, free, for a fee, or for a donation.....I consider it to be up to the individual.

 

I guess, ultimately I just had never noticed/paid attention to limitations prior the past few months when I started getting books signed through Witnesses.

[Kevin Boyd]

Signing limits have been a necessary crowd control tool for comic book conventions and store signings pretty much for as long as I've been reading comics. The limits imposed mostly have to do with the size of the crowd, the limitations set by the creator (if health is an issue) and the time the creator is available.

 

Some artists impose their own limits, others don't care. Some will sign multiple copies of the same book, others won't. Some charge, some don't.

 

 

While I've been collecting for nearly 30 years, signings are still a new concept to me. I had never seen limits prior to the last few years when the CGC SS piqued my interest and hadn't noticed comments about limitations until the last year or so. Until that point, I had only purchased books after they were signed rather than sending them to a Witness.

 

I'm all for an artist doing as they please. One item or a dozen, free, for a fee, or for a donation.....I consider it to be up to the individual.

 

I guess, ultimately I just had never noticed/paid attention to limitations prior the past few months when I started getting books signed through Witnesses.

 

To clarify, I've been collecting since the early 1970's and attending public events since the early mid-80's and I've always had to deal with signing limits. Especially at store signings. So maybe we just weren't going to the same events.

 

Actually, most of the time it isn't up to the individual creator at all but up to the store manager, convention line organizer, table assistant or to the staff at the publisher's booth.

[MedicAR]

To clarify, I've been collecting since the early 1970's and attending public events since the early mid-80's and I've always had to deal with signing limits. Especially at store signings. So maybe we just weren't going to the same events.

 

Actually, most of the time it isn't up to the individual creator at all but up to the store manager, convention line organizer, table assistant or to the staff at the publisher's booth.

 

I generally skipped signings, I just didn't care. I was there to look for books, not have some dude scribble on my comic.

 

And conventions are still a real rarity for me. I make Planetcon in KC every year, but that's really it. I made SDCC in '06 and thought it was fantastic! I just don't have the cash or the desire to travel all that much and Arkansas isn't really a good place to go for comic conventions.

 

 

I can see store managers placing limits, it's their space and time. The others....eh....I guess. I know we have to keep the safety of everyone involved in mind as well as getting to as many fans as possible. I just never really noticed limits until the last year or so.....after I started collecting CGC SS.

 

[Celestial Comics]

Well here are my thoughts (Looking over at Kevin and clearing my throat. )

 

To begin, it really depends on the individual situation, it is hard to say if a signing limit is warrented or not. Depends on the crowd numbers, the time alloted and the speed at which the signer likes to work. Someone like Jim Lee can sign 20 books in a minute when the books are ready to sign compared to Todd McFarlane would normally do 4-6 books in a minute. I have to agree with Daniel about people not having their books ready. If a person has their books ready to sign they can get 20 books signed in the time it take a person who has to pull the book out of the bag and board, get it signed and place it back in the bag and board. So I think that has alot to do with it.

 

As for people who sell their books they get signed versus people who don't. Sharon and I are probably one of the minority that doesn't gets books signed to sell. Don't get me wrong I do bring my own books to a con to get them signed as well, but 90% of the books we handle are for clients and their books always come first when a signing takes place. The exception to that is if a client has 20 copies of the same book and I have 1, then I will put my 1 copy in the middle of the stack. Now here is an unfortunate fact, you do have some people (witnesses) out there that will be more then happy to get all of their books signed at the expense of everyone else. I have seen it happen. I remember a signing at a con that the witness in front of me knew the limit was 10 books per person and that witness pulled out a stack of about 50 books and layed them all on the table and told the manager of the booth that only a few of the books were for the creator signing. The manager walked away for a minute and the creator proceeded to sign the whole stack not wanting to cause a scene. But as the creator was finishing up the stack, the manager walked back over to see that he had been lied to and then announced the limit was going to be 2 books per person. Well I was pissed because I had my 10 books that I needed to get signed for clients now cut down to 2 books all because of that witness not wanting to follow the rules of the signing. When I approached the witness after that signing and asked why he did it, he simply responded "Because I wanted my 50 books signed". And I then made a comment about how his action caused everyone else to only get 2 books signed, the witness said "So, it 's not my problem".

 

There are many times when I do have a large stack of books to get signed (i.e. Joe Quesada in NY), I stood at the back of the line letting people go in front of me so that I did not take anything away from them. I let the person organizing or the signer know that I have a large stack and asked them if I stay at the back of the line can I get my stack signed, they usually say yes. They recognize that I am trying to be nice and they appreciate that. There are a few booth managers and creators that I don't even need to ask anymore because we know each other and they know how I work.

 

Now I realize that time is money and that being towards the front of the line is important because we can't spend hours in line. But consider if you make an arrangement at the very beginning with the organizer or signer about being last in line. You can now go get other books signed by other creators while the line you would otherwise be waiting in finishes up and you walk up at the end and get everything signed. Does this work all of the time. No, but it is worth a try.

 

Now back to the subject of limits. I have said that if/when I were to organize a con or major public signing, I would make arrangements with the creator that no witnesses would get into line for the general signing, but I would make 15-20 minutes available just for the witnesses with the understanding that no talking and books are ready to be signed. That way we could get hundreds of boosk signed in a very short amount of time. It would make the creator happy, because he doesn't have to worry about the general signing getting back-up because of stacks of books and it would make the witnesses happy because they could get all of their books signed without having to wait in line for hours.

 

I could go on for hours on this subject but I need to go home and get books unpacked. So later guys. Oh!! and Kevin.. No soap box this time and I had a smile on my face the whole time.

 

Chandler & Sharon Rice

Desert Wind Comics

[Kevin Boyd]

Not sure why you were looking at me, I already know what you do. You need to record a Desert Wind Comics theme song and have it loop in the background for us to listen to while we read your replies.

 

However, the continuing comments about the conduct of other Witnesses is a problem and kind of borderline yankable (and something I've asked you to refrain from doing before).

 

If another Witness did that in front of me, I would have filed a report with CGC about their conduct, not written about it on a chatboard so that everyone could read about it and wonder just who you are talking about.

 

 

[Joel Elad]

A lot of my thoughts have already been echoed by other people. I can't tell you how many personal conversations I had to put up with this weekend, and I'm not talking about the genuine friend of an artist/writer stopping to talk business or catch up, but the pointless conversation while the line gets longer and longer and longer... What really gets me are the people who block the aisles to take pictures of folks in costumes, but that's a whole other discussion...

 

Signing limits are usually the idea of the organizer more than the talent. The creators don't want to be the bad guys, so the people organizing the signings take on that role. I've always felt that people with the short box or big stack need to be the last people in line, so the fans with 1-2, or even 3-5 signatures can get through, and move on to enjoy the rest of the show. We've been very successful at the HERO booth to ask for suggested donations for more than a few signatures, and we get people to stuff all kinds of money in the donation jar. Yes, there is the occasional "stack of comics for $1" guy but I've seen lots of folks pay the suggested donation per book and more (& I've personally donated too) to get their stack signed.

 

As conventions grow in size, and creators have busier and busier schedules, limits are necessary to get the talent on to their next panel, meeting, or responsibility so the next batch of creators can sit down, etc. Not everyone can be like Kevin Smith, who will advertise a 2-3 hour signing, and sit for 5-8 hours 'til everyone is done. Thankfully, most comic creators are happy to sign an unlimited amount, like Brian Michael Bendis, who appreciates it if you're buying so many copies of his books that he'll sign any stack you give him.

 

Some of the problem does come when they're signing 50 copies of the exact same book. Personally, if I'm getting a big stack signed for resale, I *want* to pay the creator, or make a donation in their name. If the signature is helping me to make money, they should share in the proceeds. Some artists want the money per signature to feel like they're not getting ripped off when the book gets flipped on eBay, but it's not as prevelant as people think. Sketches, yes, the fact that 99% charge for a sketch is due to the artist spending 15-30 minutes on a free sketch, only to see that sketch sell on eBay. This is their livelihood, and those sketch sales compete with their original art sales. But this opens a new can of worms, so let me stop on that one.

 

Many artists still don't understand the concept of witnesses like us getting a stack of comics signed for lots and lots of different customers, and they see a big stack from us as one person hoarding their time and flipping books on eBay. The good news is that as these creators hear about what we do and what we represent, they are more and more accommodating and understanding to work out ways to make everyone happy.

 

Bottom line, the creators work the conventions as a way to connect with as many fans as possible, to thank the fans for following their work, and to encourage newcomers to pick up their work. The more time they can spend with that fan who adores their work and gets that 30 seconds of face time with "their idol", the happier the creator is. There is a way to make this whole process more efficient for the folks who want their comics signed, especially the fans who can't make the shows, we all just need to keep working on a way to make it better. Nuff said.

 

Joel

 

 

[MutantKeys]

Man, you make some really long posts...

[comix4fun]

Man, you make some really long posts...

 

 

Here's something to occupy you...

 

 

While the adults talk...

 

C

[EvilAsh]

Man, you make some really long posts...

 

 

Here's something to occupy you...

 

 

While the adults talk...

 

C

 

Made me spit out coffee onto my keyboard!!! Well done Chris

[Celestial Comics]

Not sure why you were looking at me,

 

Because I know you know us and I was watching to make sure you didn't smack me in the back of the head and say "Not that again". And I didn't point the finger at any one person this time. So I am getting better.

 

Chandler & Sharon Rice

Desert Wind Comics