Comiclink...Truth and Fiction

[thirdgreenham]

If I am selling a TOS 46 in VG and I want 140 bucks for it. I may shill bid myself, up to $134.99 and hope for a higher bidder. If I end up winning the book through my shill bid, I just eat the cost to Ebay. Then I use my shill bidder name to leave good feedback for the book I purchased (from myself) and go on about my business.

 

Sure, sometimes you get the shaft, but sometimes you get the goldmine. At least you have the book and can try again some other time. Or you can contact the underbidder and tell them that the winning bidder "passed" on buying the book, and offer it to them at their top bid.

This is very disturbing.

 

Yeah, this sounded like something he has done, and does, not some hypothetical scenario.

 

 

Ha Ha. Way to jump to conclusions and cast aspersions without even knowing me. Let's not insinuate anything against ComicLink, Heritage or anyone else you don't know, but let's assume that conditionfreak is a cheat and a shill bidder on his auctions, because he can reason and have an intelligent thought or two.

 

You my friend, are a mor0n for suggesting that without so much as a second thought about doing so. Do you think that others here haven't thought about that scenario, and other ways to cheat. Not that they were thinking about doing them, but wondering if "it" was done to them.

 

Here is a link to my Ebay account. Do an investigation and then come back with your results. OR, go wash your mouth out with soap.

 

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=conditionfreak&ftab=AllFeedback

 

Moving on with another thought or two from an obvious cheat and shill bidder:

 

Except for the fact that one is against the rules and one is not. What is the difference between a shill bidder and a "reserve" auction?

 

Additionally, what is the purpose of someone putting up a reserve auction and putting in the auction description how much their reserve is? I don't get it.

 

Consider my mouth washed out with soap, and please accept my apologies.

 

Andy

[conditionfreak]

Apology accepted. I have had to wash my mouth out with soap a time or twenty also.

 

I haven't conducted a sale on Ebay for quite some time. I just do my buying (and very little selling) on this forum. I don't even look at Ebay anymore and don't know the new guidelines and rules I keep reading on this site, about Ebay.

 

Sounds like it has went to hell in a hand basket. It used to be great.

 

My feelings about ComickLink are that the prices are astronomical sometimes, but I have made some good purchases from there (always fixed priced items), and see nothing wrong with their business model nor practices. But, as as already been put forth. Their are shenanigans occurring everywhere in life. Even in church.

[gpanalysis]

How would you, or anyone, respond to the claims that CLink reports inflated realized values?

 

Personally I wouldn't know because I don't play the market for most books that would get reported.

 

Interesting question. I think I heard before that ComicLink cannot pick and choose which comics that they'd like to report to GPA, it's either all or none. With that being said, when Josh says to you he will report your sales to GPA, I believe he was just telling you what you wanted to hear, in order to get your books in his auction.

 

Andy

 

It would be interesting to hear from George concerning this...

 

Jim

 

 

 

[thirdgreenham]

How would you, or anyone, respond to the claims that CLink reports inflated realized values?

 

Personally I wouldn't know because I don't play the market for most books that would get reported.

 

Interesting question. I think I heard before that ComicLink cannot pick and choose which comics that they'd like to report to GPA, it's either all or none. With that being said, when Josh says to you he will report your sales to GPA, I believe he was just telling you what you wanted to hear, in order to get your books in his auction.

 

Andy

 

It would be interesting to hear from George concerning this...

 

Jim

 

 

 

Are you accepting sales data from ComicLink and inputting it into your GPA analysis? Do they now report all of their sales to you, or are you accepting selected sales data from them now, or none at all?

 

Andy

[Foolkiller]

I can tell you that sellers are NOT allowed to bid on their own books. But I have talked to the Comiclink guys about it and they say it is an absolute no-no.

 

No one can ever eliminate all shill bidding, it is simply not possible with the ease of getting new e-mail addresses and such. Using a wife's account is probably not going to pass though, nor would using a neighbor's. Josh is going to want to get paid either way. And I am pretty sure that he is smart enough to figure out that is someone who lives on your block, or in your house or even in your same zipcode and is only bidding on your books, it probably is something shady. He is no dummy, and you are taking money directly out of his pocket by doing this.

 

Lets put it this way........... What sense does it make for a seller to bid on his own item, and lose the 10 % commission you give to Josh, and have to pay for the book again. It is a certain way to lose money. Say someone submits a $1000.00 book to Josh that he paid 700.00 for. As the auction nears the end, the book is only at 710.00, so the seller wants to "bump" it slightly. So he shills a bid of 800.00. No one else bids, so now you not only paid 700.00 for the book the first time and paid to ship it to Josh (700 + 15 = $715.00), now you have paid $800.00 for it a second time plus shipping (814.00 + original 715.00 = 1529.00). Now you will get some of that money back from Josh (800 - 80.00 = 720.00). 1529 - 720.00 = 809.00. And you have to wait 30 days to get your money.

 

When all is said and done, you now have 809.00 in a book that no one else thinks is worth even 800.00. It just doesn't make sense.

 

This is a basic way of looking at it, and does not reflect that the shill bidder probably isn't a dummy either.

 

1) I live in Philly. Friend lives in NYC. Call him up, alert him to the books that you have for sale.

 

2) Watch books in the EARLY stages of bidding, so you don't get stuck with it at the end, by bidding up the prices.

 

3) Watch to see if your shill bid is immediately outbid or outbid within a few hours. If done during the early stages you probably have a good chance that even if you are the "current" winning bidder, you will be outbid in the end.

 

4) Have a kill level. When it hits $1500, no longer shill. Everything else is gravy.

 

5) Shill selectively, not on all your books, just your big ticket items.

 

6) Shill creates a frenzy to legit collectors that they may have to get in early and often to win their book that they want.

 

The scenario you are presenting Dale really isn't the way anyone with half a brain would shill bid. Even if you get stuck 1 out of 25 or 30 times, and that's the real ratio if you do it smartly to me, the reward far outweighs the risk. And there's not a darn thing Josh or anyone else can do to police it really.

 

 

Brian, I believe that I mentioned that there is nothing Josh can do about it, and what he can do about it, he is doing. One thing you fail to respond to, what happens that 1 in 25 times to the seller who gets caught doing it. Do you think Josh is just overlooking that and allowing him to do it again? I don't.

 

 

 

Another important note......I personally would think if you are bidding 1500.00 on a 1000.00 book, you are going to get stuck ALOT more than 1 in 25 times.

 

I don't feel that this is anywhere near the problem that you are indicating in the above post.

 

Kind of reminds me of the Arod situation where 1 case is overshadowing the 1500 players who will play in baseball this year. Sure there are a few people who may be staying ahead of the curve and NOT getting caught, but most are not doing anything wrong, but to hear it from the overly cynical media, you would think it was a majority of players.

 

 

Totally disagree. First of all, the baseball analogy is terrible. There are at least 103 other names that weren't released along with ARods... so you have to compare that to the fact that steroids were rampant and the vast majority of players WON'T be caught.

 

I have no idea what the level of the problem is. What I'm saying is that it is easy to evade the system. If you have half a brain, you can beat it with ease. It's not Josh's fault, it's the way it is. And I didn't say the 1 in 25 times the seller is CAUGHT, I said STUCK. Meaning that their friend has to buy the book. The reality is, you profit so many more times by jacking the price... plus if you are shilling, it's not a shill to go way over, it's more likely a shill to make sure you get "your price".

 

I would guess that most people aren't doing anything wrong on the Link. The issue is that it's easy to manipulate the system.

[gpanalysis]

Andy, we have not received any sales data from them. And we would like to see all sales if they were to report to us, not just selected ones.

[divad]

Which, of course, is why the "system" sux . . . I prefer one-to-one transactions.

[skypinkblu]

:

 

Except for the fact that one is against the rules and one is not. What is the difference between a shill bidder and a "reserve" auction?

 

Additionally, what is the purpose of someone putting up a reserve auction and putting in the auction description how much their reserve is? I don't get it.

 

Re Telling your reserve...

It used to be cheaper to list with a reserve, than with a higher starting price. Ebay used to refund "reserves" if the listing sold and gave you a free 2nd chance to list, if it didn't. They don't seem to be doing that anymore, but some people might be "old school".

 

 

The difference between a reserve and a shill, is with a reserve, it either sells or doesn't sell, someone else isn't artificially inflating your bid.

 

Just about the ONLY time I bid on reserve auctions, is when the reserve is "told". Otherwise, I figure I'm just wasting my time.

[Bruce1971]

I agree, reserves means you did not meet the sellers price. Shills make the bidder think there is more demand for the book, very different.

 

 

Bruce

[thirdgreenham]

Thanks George! (thumbs u

 

Andy

[gaz973]

Andy, we have not received any sales data from them. And we would like to see all sales if they were to report to us, not just selected ones.

 

So I guess Josh just told Stalkinggoat what he wanted to hear to get his trade.

[esquirecomics]

 

4) ComicLink does not report sales to GPA, reducing transparancy.

 

Personally I believe GPA is a critical tool for evaluating relative levels that I might be willing to bid. As part of my deal with Josh, I asked him to report all my sales to GPA. He agreed. Maybe more people on the sell side need to ask?

 

I applaud your position 100% on trying to ensure your sales are reported to GPA. And you are right that if more sellers made this a precondition of their business with CL, or other dealers who don't report, then perhaps the system would change.

 

But now we know CL did NOT report the sales data to GPA, at least not as of today. I am sure many of us, to include you most importantly, would like to know why that is, particularly given what you wrote above.

 

Of course, maybe CL has simply not gotten around to it. When did the sale of your books take place? I won't jump to conclusions but raising the question certainly seems fair and appropriate.

 

 

[gpanalysis]

Josh just reported those sales via email. He knows through conversation that reporting only selected sales is not really an option for us. Hopefully he would be interested to report all sales soon.

 

 

 

[gaz973]

 

4) ComicLink does not report sales to GPA, reducing transparancy.

 

Personally I believe GPA is a critical tool for evaluating relative levels that I might be willing to bid. As part of my deal with Josh, I asked him to report all my sales to GPA. He agreed. Maybe more people on the sell side need to ask?

 

I applaud your position 100% on trying to ensure your sales are reported to GPA. And you are right that if more sellers made this a precondition of their business with CL, or other dealers who don't report, then perhaps the system would change.

 

But now we know CL did NOT report the sales data to GPA, at least not as of today. I am sure many of us, to include you most importantly, would like to know why that is, particularly given what you wrote above.

 

Of course, maybe CL has simply not gotten around to it. When did the sale of your books take place? I won't jump to conclusions but raising the question certainly seems fair and appropriate.

 

 

The issue of Josh wanting to report select sales and George only accepting the whole picture was established some time ago. George's post indicates that nothing has changed.

[500Club]

 

4) ComicLink does not report sales to GPA, reducing transparancy.

 

Personally I believe GPA is a critical tool for evaluating relative levels that I might be willing to bid. As part of my deal with Josh, I asked him to report all my sales to GPA. He agreed. Maybe more people on the sell side need to ask?

 

I applaud your position 100% on trying to ensure your sales are reported to GPA. And you are right that if more sellers made this a precondition of their business with CL, or other dealers who don't report, then perhaps the system would change.

 

But now we know CL did NOT report the sales data to GPA, at least not as of today. I am sure many of us, to include you most importantly, would like to know why that is, particularly given what you wrote above.

 

Of course, maybe CL has simply not gotten around to it. When did the sale of your books take place? I won't jump to conclusions but raising the question certainly seems fair and appropriate.

 

 

#5 registry run (4gemworks) sold in Feb CL auction.

[500Club]

Josh just reported those sales via email. He knows through conversation that reporting only selected sales is not really an option for us. Hopefully he would be interested to report all sales soon.

 

 

 

This thread likely jogged his memory....

[conditionfreak]

I understand your points about reserve versus shilling. Yes, there are some differences. Especially when it comes to transparency and being within the rules.

 

However. A hidden reserve is the seller actually shilling up the price to a certain point. His shill is automatic and built into the "reserve" system.

 

For instance. The hidden reserve is $100 bucks. You start out the auction at $9.99 (why not ten, only advertisment execs no for sure). Anyway. You start out at 9.99 and a few keep bidding until it reaches $70.00. Now, one way to look at it, is that the seller has made a bid of $100.00 and somebody has to outbid the seller to win the book.

 

In my world, an auction should start out at $1.00 or maybe $100.00 depending on the type of item you have, and where it goes is where it goes and ends is where it goes and ends. If you want a fixed price for it. Make it a BIN.

 

I have never used a reserve in any of my auctions. It just ain't an auction in my opinion, if there is a reserve. I have mad several auctions end with me getting a lot less for an item than I paid for it. That is life in the auction lane, in my way of thinking. I have also received winning bids four times higher than my wildest dream for some items.

 

I am diffinitely old school. Until just a month or so ago, I never low balled an offer to anyone here. I just paid what they were asking or did not buy it.

 

I'm learning.

 

Shilling and "reserving" on Ebay are not that far apart. Either way, the seller is making you pay more because of him setting a price that you don't know from the outset.

 

Are underbidders required under Ebays current rules, to follow through with their contract to purchase, if they are notified by the seller that the actual winning biddeer did not pay?

[esquirecomics]

Josh just reported those sales via email. He knows through conversation that reporting only selected sales is not really an option for us. Hopefully he would be interested to report all sales soon.

 

Amazing how it always works that way.

 

George, I would definitely recommend you accept and process this data into the GPA system. I fully understand why you prefer not to accept only selected CL information but this is a different situation.

 

This is not Josh providing you the selected information that he, and only he, wants known. This was prompted by a seller - a customer of CL - who required this information to be transmitted to you (far in advance of the final figures so he had no idea what the numbers would be) as part of the condition of his consigning books to CL.

 

GPA should want to encourage this type of behavior from customers of CL. If it continues it may lead to ALL CL data being provided to GPA. That is a worthwhile objective. (thumbs u

[Bronty]

Josh just reported those sales via email. He knows through conversation that reporting only selected sales is not really an option for us. Hopefully he would be interested to report all sales soon.

 

 

 

This thread likely jogged his memory....

 

what's the diff its an empty act anyways if he knew the information wouldn't be accepted

[gaz973]

Josh just reported those sales via email. He knows through conversation that reporting only selected sales is not really an option for us. Hopefully he would be interested to report all sales soon.

 

Amazing how it always works that way.

 

George, I would definitely recommend you accept and process this data into the GPA system. I fully understand why you prefer not to accept only selected CL information but this is a different situation.

 

This is not Josh providing you the selected information that he, and only he, wants known. This was prompted by a seller - a customer of CL - who required this information to be transmitted to you (far in advance of the final figures so he had no idea what the numbers would be) as part of the condition of his consigning books to CL.

 

GPA should want to encourage this type of behavior from customers of CL. If it continues it may lead to ALL CL data being provided to GPA. That is a worthwhile objective. (thumbs u