Does the lack of MH sales hurt or help the growth of GA prices?

[buttock]

Kind of a random thought here, and I've been up all night so pardon me if it's not well organized, but:

 

In baseball cards, the top graded T206 Honus Wagner card became famous (infamous?) when Gretzky/McNall bought it for $451K. That price was mind-blowing at the time and was all over the news. Although it stagnated for a while (Gretzky sold it for $500K 4 years later), it later became a legitimate "investible" and has sold several more times, most recently for $2.8M.

 

I have to think that (a) a name like Gretzky getting involved gave some legitimacy to this card as an investment to outsiders, and (b) this truly being the creme de la creme of baseball cards makes it especially appealing (if you're going to invest in something, make it the best, right?). Thus, the repeated sale of the premier item in the market has brought attention/notoriety to the field, as well as more investors. Over the same time, however, the remainder of the baseball card market has tanked, largely attributed to the commoditization of cards (at least that's my understanding of things, if I'm wrong, correct me).

 

This makes me wonder about the effect that Dave Anderson has had on the comic market by holding onto the Church Action 1, and making it essentially an unknown.

 

If that particular book were available, I have to think that it would catch the eye of a lot of investors with stupid money. Certainly more than the 6.0 is/will/would. If that book were available, we might see a series of sales like the Gretzky card. While that might bring more attention to the market, it might also cause a huge spike that wouldn't be realistically sustainable for the rest of GA, causing things to tank.

 

As such, is it realistic to speculate that the unavailability of this book is keeping the growth of GA at a more reasonable pace?

 

 

[The Black Hand ®]

What would happen if that book went on the market and it was discovered to have some slight restoration? Would the disapontment hurt the market?

[tth2]

I think the unavailability of MANY of the best books in the hobby has helped to keep down prices and suppress the profile of this hobby. As you say, the T206 Wagner has changed hands several times at escalating prices, and news reports of Inverted Jennies for big bucks surface every now and then. A lot of the general public who know nothing about stamp collecting are generally aware that a stamp with an upside down airplane is worth a whole lot of money.

 

In comparison, how many non-comic collectors got the joke when Krusty lit up his cigar with an Action #1? The 6.0 Action #1 is getting a lot of press and will undoubtedly set a record price for a public sale, but even if it hits the $500K mark that will be paltry compared to record prices for other collectables, most notably baseball cards, stamps and coins. Definitely nothing close to the buzz that would be generated when a book hits the $1 million mark.

 

In addition, not only have most of the best books not traded hands in recent memory, no one even knows what they look like. While the owner of a book is entitled to do what he wants with it, I have often thought that the likes of Anderson and Verzyl have done a disservice to the hobby in this respect. Seeing the MH AA #16 was a real revelation, and it`d truly be wonderful to see "up close" what the MH Action 1, Superman 1, Batman 1 and MC 1, and AT Tec 27, look like.

 

We`re very fortunate that collectors like Jon Berk, with a more inclusive approach to the hobby, have come on here and shown what some of the incredible MH Foxes look like.

[buttock]

Yeah, I thought about mentioning Verzyl's hoard too. I like to think that if I had the MH Action 1, Marvel 1, whatever, that I'd show it off every chance I got. I'd print T-shirts & posters with pictures of me holding it and send them to everyone I knew. Yet these books remain unseen and almost mythical.

 

Although in reality, I have to suppose that publicizing those books would have to lead to a number of headaches and worries that are prohibitive to showing them off.

[Paratrooper]

I think the unavailability of MANY of the best books in the hobby has helped to keep down prices and suppress the profile of this hobby. As you say, the T206 Wagner has changed hands several times at escalating prices, and news reports of Inverted Jennies for big bucks surface every now and then. A lot of the general public who know nothing about stamp collecting are generally aware that a stamp with an upside down airplane is worth a whole lot of money.

 

In comparison, how many non-comic collectors got the joke when Krusty lit up his cigar with an Action #1? The 6.0 Action #1 is getting a lot of press and will undoubtedly set a record price for a public sale, but even if it hits the $500K mark that will be paltry compared to record prices for other collectables, most notably baseball cards, stamps and coins. Definitely nothing close to the buzz that would be generated when a book hits the $1 million mark.

 

In addition, not only have most of the best books not traded hands in recent memory, no one even knows what they look like. While the owner of a book is entitled to do what he wants with it, I have often thought that the likes of Anderson and Verzyl have done a disservice to the hobby in this respect. Seeing the MH AA #16 was a real revelation, and it`d truly be wonderful to see "up close" what the MH Action 1, Superman 1, Batman 1 and MC 1, and AT Tec 27, look like.

 

We`re very fortunate that collectors like Jon Berk, with a more inclusive approach to the hobby, have come on here and shown what some of the incredible MH Foxes look like.

 

AF #15's have been available by the truckload yet prices still seem to soar.

[The Black Hand ®]

It seems to me that Anderson might be a private person who doesn't feel the need to show his collection off to the public and is doing what he feels is best for himself and his collection. He's under no obligation to show off his books, even if others think it might make their books more valuable.

[action1kid]

It seems to me that Anderson might be a private person who doesn't feel the need to show his collection off to the public and is doing what he feels is best for himself and his collection. He's under no obligation to show off his books, even if others think it might make their books more valuable.

 

Yep

[action1kid]

It seems to me that Anderson might be a private person who doesn't feel the need to show his collection off to the public and is doing what he feels is best for himself and his collection. He's under no obligation to show off his books, even if others think it might make their books more valuable.

 

Yep

I think the unavailability of MANY of the best books in the hobby has helped to keep down prices and suppress the profile of this hobby. As you say, the T206 Wagner has changed hands several times at escalating prices, and news reports of Inverted Jennies for big bucks surface every now and then. A lot of the general public who know nothing about stamp collecting are generally aware that a stamp with an upside down airplane is worth a whole lot of money.

 

In comparison, how many non-comic collectors got the joke when Krusty lit up his cigar with an Action #1? The 6.0 Action #1 is getting a lot of press and will undoubtedly set a record price for a public sale, but even if it hits the $500K mark that will be paltry compared to record prices for other collectables, most notably baseball cards, stamps and coins. Definitely nothing close to the buzz that would be generated when a book hits the $1 million mark.

 

In addition, not only have most of the best books not traded hands in recent memory, no one even knows what they look like. While the owner of a book is entitled to do what he wants with it, I have often thought that the likes of Anderson and Verzyl have done a disservice to the hobby in this respect. Seeing the MH AA #16 was a real revelation, and it`d truly be wonderful to see "up close" what the MH Action 1, Superman 1, Batman 1 and MC 1, and AT Tec 27, look like.

 

We`re very fortunate that collectors like Jon Berk, with a more inclusive approach to the hobby, have come on here and shown what some of the incredible MH Foxes look like.

 

AF #15's have been available by the truckload yet prices still seem to soar.

 

There is a very important lesson here which everyone always forgets over and over and over.Nothing explodes up in price forever, NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!

The holy grail of investments [ Housing and oil] couldnt even do it forever..AF15 isnt going to EXPLODE forever.[ In spite of what your dealer tells you!] Youre dealer is NOT an investment professional.I question if one really exsists in any field nowdays.Anyway dont get caught up in the going up bigtime mania forever.

I mean how many times do you have to be hit on the head to learn this???

[GreatEscape]

It seems to me that Anderson might be a private person who doesn't feel the need to show his collection off to the public and is doing what he feels is best for himself and his collection. He's under no obligation to show off his books, even if others think it might make their books more valuable.

 

Yep

I think the unavailability of MANY of the best books in the hobby has helped to keep down prices and suppress the profile of this hobby. As you say, the T206 Wagner has changed hands several times at escalating prices, and news reports of Inverted Jennies for big bucks surface every now and then. A lot of the general public who know nothing about stamp collecting are generally aware that a stamp with an upside down airplane is worth a whole lot of money.

 

In comparison, how many non-comic collectors got the joke when Krusty lit up his cigar with an Action #1? The 6.0 Action #1 is getting a lot of press and will undoubtedly set a record price for a public sale, but even if it hits the $500K mark that will be paltry compared to record prices for other collectables, most notably baseball cards, stamps and coins. Definitely nothing close to the buzz that would be generated when a book hits the $1 million mark.

 

In addition, not only have most of the best books not traded hands in recent memory, no one even knows what they look like. While the owner of a book is entitled to do what he wants with it, I have often thought that the likes of Anderson and Verzyl have done a disservice to the hobby in this respect. Seeing the MH AA #16 was a real revelation, and it`d truly be wonderful to see "up close" what the MH Action 1, Superman 1, Batman 1 and MC 1, and AT Tec 27, look like.

 

We`re very fortunate that collectors like Jon Berk, with a more inclusive approach to the hobby, have come on here and shown what some of the incredible MH Foxes look like.

 

AF #15's have been available by the truckload yet prices still seem to soar.

 

There is a very important lesson here which everyone always forgets over and over and over.Nothing explodes up in price forever, NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!

The holy grail of investments [ Housing and oil] couldnt even do it forever..AF15 isnt going to EXPLODE forever.[ In spite of what your dealer tells you!] Youre dealer is NOT an investment professional.I question if one really exsists in any field nowdays.Anyway dont get caught up in the going up bigtime mania forever.

I mean how many times do you have to be hit on the head to learn this???

 

 

Well said. Look at all the AF #15s in the current big auctions...smart sellers perhaps? Time will tell.

[Bronty]

It seems to me that Anderson might be a private person who doesn't feel the need to show his collection off to the public and is doing what he feels is best for himself and his collection. He's under no obligation to show off his books, even if others think it might make their books more valuable.

 

Yep

I think the unavailability of MANY of the best books in the hobby has helped to keep down prices and suppress the profile of this hobby. As you say, the T206 Wagner has changed hands several times at escalating prices, and news reports of Inverted Jennies for big bucks surface every now and then. A lot of the general public who know nothing about stamp collecting are generally aware that a stamp with an upside down airplane is worth a whole lot of money.

 

In comparison, how many non-comic collectors got the joke when Krusty lit up his cigar with an Action #1? The 6.0 Action #1 is getting a lot of press and will undoubtedly set a record price for a public sale, but even if it hits the $500K mark that will be paltry compared to record prices for other collectables, most notably baseball cards, stamps and coins. Definitely nothing close to the buzz that would be generated when a book hits the $1 million mark.

 

In addition, not only have most of the best books not traded hands in recent memory, no one even knows what they look like. While the owner of a book is entitled to do what he wants with it, I have often thought that the likes of Anderson and Verzyl have done a disservice to the hobby in this respect. Seeing the MH AA #16 was a real revelation, and it`d truly be wonderful to see "up close" what the MH Action 1, Superman 1, Batman 1 and MC 1, and AT Tec 27, look like.

 

We`re very fortunate that collectors like Jon Berk, with a more inclusive approach to the hobby, have come on here and shown what some of the incredible MH Foxes look like.

 

AF #15's have been available by the truckload yet prices still seem to soar.

 

There is a very important lesson here which everyone always forgets over and over and over.Nothing explodes up in price forever, NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!

The holy grail of investments [ Housing and oil] couldnt even do it forever..AF15 isnt going to EXPLODE forever.[ In spite of what your dealer tells you!] Youre dealer is NOT an investment professional.I question if one really exsists in any field nowdays.Anyway dont get caught up in the going up bigtime mania forever.

I mean how many times do you have to be hit on the head to learn this???

 

and if 'investment professionals' knew what was going to happen they'd be investing their money instead of yours - the idea that your investment advisor is going to make you rich is the biggest fallacy of all and a way bigger con job than any resto on a funny book. The market price by definition is where the people betting against and the people betting for are evenly matched. Ie. where 50% of the advisors are on one side and 50% on the other side. You might as well throw darts at a stock listing. In fact there was a book in the 80s that got monkeys to do just that, throw darts at listings and compared the investment success of the monkey picks to the picks of a group of professionals. Need I tell you the monkeys won.

 

As you're implying there's really no such thing an investment professional who can tell you what's going to happen. The only thing they can really bring to the table is diversification of risk and other less-than-groundbreaking advice; any monkey can diversify their portfolio themselves without paying someone to do it for them

[MrBedrock]

So the basic question is, " If Dave Anderson had sold the Action 1 years ago and in turn it had resold a few times, would all the rest of our comics be worth more?"

 

There are some who have said Dave Anderson was doing things to hurt the hobby.

I don't think this is what they had in mind.

[action1kid]

Overwhelming and I mean overwhelmingly the richest people on wallstreet became rich by collecting commissions on running mutual funds and hedge funds and the like.They did not become rich picking stocks.They do not have an edge.it is all bull.It is all a smoke screen to bring in the real source of wealth on wallstreet.Commissions,bonus and ludicrous salaries for RUNNING THE FUNDS and not and I repeat not from picking the stocks.

[action1kid]

So the basic question is, " If Dave Anderson had sold the Action 1 years ago and in turn it had resold a few times, would all the rest of our comics be worth more?"

 

There are some who have said Dave Anderson was doing things to hurt the hobby.

I don't think this is what they had in mind.

 

He is simply putting his self interest first and foremost and I cant see a thing wrong with it.it isnt generous to the collecting community but its not wrong either

[capt_comics]

Don't keep up with the major sales and auctions like most of you guys do.

 

What are some of the most recent AF 15 sales?

 

thanks

 

 

 

[action1kid]

I think if you bring up here the one and only post Dave Anderson ever made on these boards[[and it is lengthy] You can garner tibits from it as to why he chooses to be private in regard to his collection.

[GreatEscape]

Otherwise, we would have to condemn Ferrari owners that simply keep (and presumably) enjoy their cars privately instead of selling / buying back to support the market value. In fact, I would argue that that these "unattainable" grails locked away in private collections may actually increase values for the GA keys that do hit the market.

 

In my mind, we are collectors first and enjoy the potential for investment potential as a secondary benefit.

[delekkerste]

Overwhelming and I mean overwhelmingly the richest people on wallstreet became rich by collecting commissions on running mutual funds and hedge funds and the like.They did not become rich picking stocks.They do not have an edge.it is all bull.It is all a smoke screen to bring in the real source of wealth on wallstreet.Commissions,bonus and ludicrous salaries for RUNNING THE FUNDS and not and I repeat not from picking the stocks.

 

While there are many who benefited just from collecting management fees, the overwhelming majority of hedge fund fees until recently were earned through incentive compensation. In other words, both hedge funds and their investors shared in the profits earned. No smoke and no mirrors.

 

By the way, most people know picking stocks to be the primary component of "running the funds"; I'm not sure how you can run money without picking stocks/securities. It's not like they just showed up and collected fees for nothing.

 

While there are advisors who may be outperformed by a dart-throwing monkey, it is unfair to paint everyone with the same brush. There are undoubtedly thousands of talented investment professionals out there who have made their clients a lot of money over the years. My firm has compiled one of the best long-term track records in the business over more than two decades and certainly has nothing to prove to anybody.

 

 

[Silver Surfer]

I think it has hurt the market, unintentionally.Look what the rumour of a $1.0M offer and picture of a slabbed Church AA#16 did for the market value of that book in lessor grades, doubled almost overnight.

[action1kid]

Overwhelming and I mean overwhelmingly the richest people on wallstreet became rich by collecting commissions on running mutual funds and hedge funds and the like.They did not become rich picking stocks.They do not have an edge.it is all bull.It is all a smoke screen to bring in the real source of wealth on wallstreet.Commissions,bonus and ludicrous salaries for RUNNING THE FUNDS and not and I repeat not from picking the stocks.

 

While there are many who benefited just from collecting management fees, the overwhelming majority of hedge fund fees until recently were earned through incentive compensation. In other words, both hedge funds and their investors shared in the profits earned. No smoke and no mirrors.

 

By the way, most people know picking stocks to be the primary component of "running the funds"; I'm not sure how you can run money without picking stocks/securities. It's not like they just showed up and collected fees for nothing.

 

While there are advisors who may be outperformed by a dart-throwing monkey, it is unfair to paint everyone with the same brush. There are undoubtedly thousands of talented investment professionals out there who have made their clients a lot of money over the years. My firm has compiled one of the best long-term track records in the business over more than two decades and certainly has nothing to prove to anybody.

 

[action1kid]

Of course not everybody So I wont speak in absolutes but a great majority.I will ad in [[my opinion.]] .