Two Superman #1s, can someone Please explain this to me?

[Filter81]

This has been driving me nuts for the last few days, and I'd really appreciate if someone has an explanation..

 

Two weeks ago I put a Superman #1 up for sale on eBay. The cover had been replaced, and the book was missing the original first page, last page, and one more interior page. All three missing pages have been replaced. A coupon was clipped from the centerfold, and a few other pages had pieces missing, and most of the interior pages have little tiny holes down the spine from originally being in a bound edition. The bidding on my book reached $2,000 reserve not met, and the high bidder decided they were not interested in the book at that price.

 

Now, there is another Superman #1 up for sale on eBay. The front and back covers have been replaced just like my copy. The front interior page has been replaced like on my copy, and the back page is totally damaged.

 

(Here is a link: Second Superman 1 )

 

So my question is.. both books are in Poor condition and are incomplete. On my copy the cover was just placed over the book, and the replaced pages were inserted into the book but not stapled, so that my copy would remain unrestored. The other copy has been restored. My copy is obviously not quite as nice as the second one up for sale, but they are both incomplete, poor copies and mine is unrestored so I would think the books would at least go for similar prices. How is it I was unable to sell mine for $2k, but this other copy is up over $5k and the auction isn't even over yet?

 

Just wondering if there's something I'm missing. (I'm going to be relisting my copy on Sunday, this time for 1 cent with no reserve.) Did my copy end too low the first time at $2,000? Or is this second copy overpriced at $5,000? Or is there something that I'm not understanding that makes this second copy much better than mine?

 

Thanks

 

Adam

[valiantman]

You probably are looking for a more detailed answer...

but my guess is...

 

People don't like reserves.

"Reserve Not Met" is like saying, "This Won't Sell".

[ArAich]

Home Page Featured Listing...

[Filter81]

Ah, you're right! I missed that Home Page Featured Listing part. Perhaps I should try that when I relist the book. Thanks!!!!

[aardvark88]

Was your copy of Supe #1 trimmed on the edge perimeter to fit in the book binding? Most bound volumes have cropped page edges sometimes severely so. Else ppl love Matt Nelson's rebuilt Supe 1 front & back cover & 1st wrap work rather than a color copied version. But still $3k is a big discrepancy right b4 X-mas.

[Phantom-migration]

Or is there something that I'm not understanding that makes this second copy much better than mine?

 

 

First of all, I remember your original auction because I'm the one that started a thread on it here.

 

And here is a link to your original auction.

 

You never even showed the actual BOOK in your auction...you only included a scan of the "copied" cover and then a somewhat vague description of the book itself with little in depth details about it. In fact, in your original auction, you didn't even mention the missing coupon from the centerfold OR the little tiny holes down the spine from originally being in a bound edition. Don't you think these details might be important when you're expecting someone to spend several thousand dollars on your book?

 

I'm honestly not trying to pick on you, but this is not instilling me with a great deal of confidence.

 

[ericc123]

[Filter81]

Phantom,

 

One thing I am learning is that it is not always a good idea to argue with some of the members in this group, so please understand that I am happy to respond to your concerns but I am only going to respond once and then I am going to let it drop unless you are interested in continuing a conversation privately.

 

From what I remember, when you started the original thread about my Superman comic, you did so because you were upset and you were implying that my Superman #1 was restored, even though I claimed it was unrestored. This subsequently lead to several people attacking my integrity. I thought it was best to let the subject drop, so I did not mention this at the time but the following day I called up the CGC and spoke to Steve Borock personally. He assured me that I was entirely correct and my copy IS unrestored, and if someone were to CGC it for whatever reason, it would come back with a blue label (well, I guess in this case maybe a Green label for being incomplete?) Everyone who claimed the book would come back with a PLOD was wrong.

 

Also, if you reread the description I mention that several pages are missing, that other pages have missing pieces, and that the pages that are there are also in bad shape (especially around the edges). Since we're talking about basically a coverless, incomplete, poor- copy of this book I really didn't think it mattered that one of the pieces missing was on the centerfold, rather than page 13 or something. (Unless of course someone were planning on buying this book for the centerfold, in which case I imagine they would have asked me a question about the centerfold before placing a bid since I did mention in the auction listing that several pages were missing, and for all they knew the centerfold might not even have been there.) I did not want to sit there and be responsible for coming up with a comrehensive list of flaws for the book because it is 65 years old, falling apart, and I didn't even want to open it to examine it any more than necessary, espeically since I had already admitted that the book is in the lowest possible grade. However, since several people on this forum have complained, when I relist the book on eBay I will mention the coupon on the centerfold and the little holes directly in the auction listing. I have never made a secret of any of the flaws on this book, and have been very up front about every flaw with everybody who has asked me any questions about the book. Its a coverless, incomplete book with pages and coupons missing and a poor page quality for the pages that remain. It couldn't be more beat-up and I guess as far as my auction description was concerned I felt that a Poor minus was a Poor minus any way you slice it. (For instance, if I suddenly mentioned that there were actually only 2 pages missing instead of 3, would you suddenly want this book if you hadn't before? When a book is graded this low, it is what it is)

 

Hopefully this addresses some of your concerns.

 

Adam

 

[jbud73]

Ok I am going to try and be as to the point as possible and only deal with thi sonce as its a no brainer to me at least.

 

THERE IS ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY ZERO COMPARISON BETWEEN YOUR AUCTION AND THE SECOND SUPERMAN AUCTION Sorry man but think about it you had ONE PIC of a COVER OF SUPER MAN #1 that is not even the real cover, and you want over 2K for that sight unseen.

 

The second auction has before and after pics I believe like 6 of them all supersizable and a detailed description of what was done and who did it. I mean people do not have ESP you want more money, create a better auction. Case closed........... Be very specific into every last detail of the structural difficulties and you may be surprised at what a little disclosure will to for buyer confidence.............

[Freiherr]

If you have read through the forum, you should know by now how picky comic buyers can be. There are also so many ways they can be scamed that almost anything on Ebay is questionable.

 

Sometimes it can seem a tad harsh, but the observations of the collectors here are very valuable to folks like me. Sometimes it is fraud. Sometimes it is just ignorance of the seller. However, more times than not, there are “unsaid” issues that I would have missed if someone here didn’t point it out.

 

As for your auction, all I can say is do what you can to get photos. That’s just not a comic thing, but an Ebay thing as well. No photos equal poor sells no matter what the product. Maybe someone here can suggest the best way to handle such a delicate piece. In any case, I am positive someone will want the book.

 

[Rickdogg]

Very true. Filter, just relist it with "clickable" larger than life scans and an extremely detailed description. People are more than willing to bid when this is done because they are dropping a couple of grand

[Phantom-migration]

I thought it was best to let the subject drop, so I did not mention this at the time but the following day I called up the CGC and spoke to Steve Borock personally. He assured me that I was entirely correct and my copy IS unrestored, and if someone were to CGC it for whatever reason, it would come back with a blue label (well, I guess in this case maybe a Green label for being incomplete?) Everyone who claimed the book would come back with a PLOD was wrong.

The only picture you included in your auction was of the front cover "copy"...there was no picture of the actual book included in your auction. If a buyer was to send this book in with the copied pages and cover and want them slabbed with it, I think it would have to get a restored label, or CGC would simply not include those pages in the slab.

 

I understand what you're saying about the book not "technically" being restored and I agree, but why not show a scan of the actual "book" that you're selling then? And just because you say the book is in "poor-" condition does NOT tell the buyer all he needs to know. Once a book makes it's way to a poor designation, there can be VAST differences in condition that the buyer should be made aware of, especially on a book of this calliber.

 

If you were to take the very book we are talking about and draw a huge "X" in black magic marker on every page, would it lower it's condition any further? NO. But is that something that a prospective buyer would like to know? I know I'd be ticked off if it wasn't revealed to me...even if the seller had graded the book as "poor" and said that there were some pen marks on the pages.

 

Also, if you reread the description I mention that several pages are missing, that other pages have missing pieces, and that the pages that are there are also in bad shape (especially around the edges). Since we're talking about basically a coverless, incomplete, poor- copy of this book I really didn't think it mattered that one of the pieces missing was on the centerfold, rather than page 13 or something.

"Pieces missing" could simply mean that there are pieces missing from the edges of some of the pages. An entire coupon cut out of a book like this should be mentioned.

 

I did not want to sit there and be responsible for coming up with a comrehensive list of flaws for the book because it is 65 years old, falling apart, and I didn't even want to open it to examine it any more than necessary, espeically since I had already admitted that the book is in the lowest possible grade.

I'm not sure I understand this. In your original auction, you said that "NONE of the pages are Brittle, so this comic still has a long, healthy life ahead"...so what's the problem with opening the book up so you can list the flaws? Or, better yet, actually include scans of some of the books pages so people can see what they're getting? It seems like this would cut down on the email questions about the book which probably require you to open it up to answer specific questions anyway.

 

It couldn't be more beat-up and I guess as far as my auction description was concerned I felt that a Poor minus was a Poor minus any way you slice it. (For instance, if I suddenly mentioned that there were actually only 2 pages missing instead of 3, would you suddenly want this book if you hadn't before? When a book is graded this low, it is what it is)

If you don't think the number of pages missing is going to matter to people and affect how much they bid, then I don't really know what to say to you. Why not just rip the book in half then and sell it as two seperate copies, each with half the pages missing? You can list them both as "poor-" condition.

[fantastic_four]

I thought it was best to let the subject drop, so I did not mention this at the time but the following day I called up the CGC and spoke to Steve Borock personally. He assured me that I was entirely correct and my copy IS unrestored, and if someone were to CGC it for whatever reason, it would come back with a blue label (well, I guess in this case maybe a Green label for being incomplete?) Everyone who claimed the book would come back with a PLOD was wrong.

 

Then you should send it in; your shot is excellent at more than earning your $80 submission fee back and the book might actually even sell. You won't get the green label for a coverless comic, but you might for a xeroxed cover--I can't remember how they grade those.

[Filter81]

Fantastic_four, do you really think it would increase the value if this book were CGCed? Obviously even if it were a 1.0 it would be worth getting graded, but I figured for a 0.5 it wouldn't be worth it. Do you disagree?

 

Adam

[JohnBull]

If you don't think the number of pages missing is going to matter to people and affect how much they bid, then I don't really know what to say to you. Why not just rip the book in half then and sell it as two seperate copies, each with half the pages missing? You can list them both as "poor-" condition.

 

I've had a lot of crappy books in my time. Seems a good way to double my money...