Silver Age Sleepers !

[joe_collector]

In 5 years from now that number on ASM#1 will be double or triple! Expect all the Silver Age books to double or triple in the CGC census within 5 years.

 

Are you looking to be the next JC?

[comicartfan]

I have some books that I think are very underrated in the guide. Since that's what we are talking about....

 

Showcase 55

 

Plastic Man 1 - find this in 9.4

 

Detc 401 thru 420

 

Batman 238, 222, 227, 218

 

Detec 359, 371

 

WW 159 & 179

 

Brave and Bold 63

 

Flash 175

 

 

and now some OVERRATED books :

 

Hulk 180, 181, 182

 

Iron Man 1

 

Marvel Spotlight 2

 

Capt. America 100

 

Sub Mariner 1

 

Defenders 1

 

Marvel Feature 1

 

Werewolf by Night 32

 

ASM 129 (sorry, but i think it's too high)

 

Avengers 100

 

Avengers 58

 

 

[murph0]

Hey Timely, you've been coming up with a bunch of these stories of people finding boxes of comics and such recently. Perhaps you should respond to Shadroch's post calling into question your account of finding a box of NM DD 1's.

In the meantime, I guess I'll just never buy another comic for 4 years so I can wait for this huge census jump and all the comics to became worth a fraction of guide. Listening to you guys could really make this a boring hobby... :\

 

Brian

[joe_collector]

I guess I'll just never buy another comic for 4 years so I can wait for this huge census jump and all the comics to became worth a fraction of guide.

 

True high-grade comics won't be selling for a fraction of Guide anytime soon, but patience is a virtue in the graded market. There are really only two points you need to keep in mind:

 

1) With very, very, very few exceptions, there are more high-grade pop collectibles out there, than you can possibly imagine.

 

2) The Census doesn't get any smaller.

 

This was extremely wise advice with graded coins and cards. Wise collectors sold at the hyped-up apex, banked or invested the money, and a few years later bought all they wanted back for 10-20% (or less) of their sale price.

 

As many on here have posited, why do we all believe comic books will be the lone exception to the rule?

[murph0]

And many wise collectors still want to collect comic books today without waiting for a crash 4 years down the road which might or might not happen. Some people can fortunately afford to continue to buy books presently, and be able to lose portions of the money placed in those books. Are those the only people that should be buying high grade or CGC'd books for the next 4 years? Should the high grade market just go on "PAUSE" for 4 years to await whether or not this crash actually occurs??

 

Realistically what do you want people to do with your information? Quit collecting comic books? Is that your goal? The way you present your argument sometimes, it definately seems like quitting is the only alternative to someone buying in the high grade market. You can't buy CGC'd high grade because prices are "too high", you can't buy raw high grade because prices are "too high", the only thing you can do is buy mid to low grade for close to guide or "suffer the wrath of the CRASH"...

 

Brian

[joe_collector]

Realistically what do you want people to do with your information? Quit collecting comic books? Is that your goal?

 

I don't really have a goal, but I would like people to NOT spend money on comics that they cannot afford to lose.

[murph0]

So basically you want to come onto a collecting forum.. and tell a lot of people they should stop collecting comics for 4 years to wait for a crash that may or may not occur, right?

I've tried this numerous times, waiting for the prices to go down. I actually waited 4 months to buy some books on the whim that, on one of the crash theorists original doomsday dates, books might actually come down in value some and I could then make cheaper buys. After 4 months, guess what happened? Nothing. Prices have remained constant on just about any title I'm looking at. Even the bronze ASMs (which I think are prone for a price readjustment) went up, some to even higher than previous levels.

While I'm not sitting here trying to say that I think EVERY single book in the market is going to be worth thousands of dollars. I do NOT see what you see in that all the high multiples people are paying, can't continue. What I do believe is that prices are what they are going to be at for quite a long time though. I don't see something "common" like a 9.4 of a 1968 ASM to go up or down more than 50 dollars. IMO everything will and has, for the most part, become fairly stagnant and will continue to be so.

 

Brian

[joe_collector]

So basically you want to come onto a collecting forum.. and tell a lot of people they should stop collecting comics for 4 years to wait for a crash that may or may not occur, right?

 

Where did I say that?

 

I'm still buying comics, but I use only 100% discretionary funds (a la DVDs, computers, electronics, entertainment, etc.) to do so. If my collection became worthless tomorrow, it wouldn't matter a whit to me in terms of my finances.

 

Those foolish enough to be investing in plastic slabs, will get what they deserve, but I truly wish the human race wasn't so foolish, so conformist, or so sheep-like.

 

Does that make me foolish to wish for such a pipe dream? Perhaps...

[sfilosa]

While the topic of this post is Silver Age Sleepers, most of the responses are books that might be undervalued in guide (which is irrelevant) but not undervalued in the market.

 

gman pointed out FF #45. This is definitely a book on my wish list.

 

Yet, there have been two sales of this book in CGC 9.4 since Overstreet Guide came out and the percentage that this book sells for over guide is:

 

8 times guide.

 

Many other FF's sell for 3-4 times guide in CGC 9.4, so the MARKETPLACE is not UNDERVALUING this book.

 

My point is, it would be very hard for a Silver-Age book to be truly undervalued because there has been 33 years to determine what books should be more in demand than others (a la first appearances, origins, etc.).

 

I think it would be easier to say which books are really Overvalued in the current market. An example would be Nick Fury #1. I love the cover but EVERY OTHER WEEK it seems that Heritage has a CGC 9.4 White page copy in their auctions. Plus, usually on eBay there are one or two a week (sometimes in 9.8). Are the same people buying up copies of this book? There are other Silver-Age books that seem to be in somewhat of the same situation. At some point, I do see the prices of these books fall significantly (20-30%).

 

 

 

 

[COI]

Some people can fortunately afford to continue to buy books presently, and be able to lose portions of the money placed in those books. Are those the only people that should be buying high grade or CGC'd books for the next 4 years?

 

Yes. Infact, I would suggest that these are the only people that should be buying high grade comics, period. If a person cannot afford to lose portions of money on books they purchased, then that implies that they are using money that isn't discretionary, and that they are depending on those books to an extent.

 

Brian, as far as I can tell, you're strictly a collector who can afford to buy the books you want. And I also know that you shop around for good prices, so you shouldn't really be bothered by what JC or anyone else has to say about future prices.

[COI]

I think FF #45 might take a jump.....

 

FF #45 a sleeper? A 9.4 sold for around $1500, so I don't know how that can be considered a sleeper. What should it be selling for? $5000?

[comicartfan]

Yeah, I think that the points by Steve and Andrew are valid. What constitues a "sleeper" ? - Is it market value/demand or guide ?? - A sleeper is considered a book that people had low expectations for , or was expecting a luke warm reception that exploded or in other words, "caught on". USM and 30 Days of Night are perfect examples that totally took people by surprise. No one knew what to expect, public got wind of it , and bang ! - a sleeper hit.....I think people are confusing books that are low guide , yet sell for high amounts on ebay, heritage, etc...as being "sleepers"

 

Undervalued is not the same. The lists could go on for books that have low guide prices, but huge public demand. especially if the grade is high. No one cares about a ASM 194 9.0.....but a 9.6 or higher, than "boom " ...watch the numbers go up.

 

If the stories are true: Iron Man 55 that allegedlly sat in 25 cent bins , a book no one cared about, all of a sudden was a hot item with investment potential for those who bought it for a quarter, that was a "sleeper" for them.

[clobberintime]

I don't really think there are many known silver sleepers - unless Marvel turns some more of the lame 60s villians into major bada$$ villians. If they make another Hulk movie, I would look at Ann1 and TTA 62 for the Leader and 91 and 92 for Abomination. Even in 9.2 and above they can be had pretty cheap. Also 93 with the Surfer is cheap compared to other Surfer crossovers and is an awesome cover. I think one title or run tht is way undervalued is the Lee/Kirby run on Thor from 126 to about 180. I think some of their best work - just as good as anything they did in FF. The art with Colletta inks is great. Some great villians and space stories - with Ulik, Wrecker, Destroyer, the Enchanters, Mangog - and the origin of Galactus in 168/169. The Galactus story could be major if they do an FF movie with Surfer. I have been able to get many of those books in 9.4 under $100. And 127 is one of the best covers ever and particularly hard to find. ALSO I would say a few X-men like 12 and 14-16 as they introduce Juggernaut and Sentinels and with X-men movies still coming, those baddies are bound to turn up sometime. You can still get those at good prices in high grade.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

What constitues a "sleeper" ? - Is it market value/demand or guide ?? - A sleeper is considered a book that people had low expectations for , or was expecting a luke warm reception that exploded or in other words, "caught on".

 

As it regards the high grade Silver Age market, I disagree with this assessment. Who knew that a FF # 45 in CGC 9.4 would sell for $1,500 on eBay last year? Wouldn't someone who bought one for considerably less before that very public sale have picked up a "sleeper", especially if future sales continue to uphold that high end trend?

 

This is a very moot discussion if we apply your definition of sleeper to the Silver Age market. Unless their is a sudden spike in the demand for Captain Savage or the Creeper, there are no "sleepers" out there.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Who knew that a FF # 45 in CGC 9.4 would sell for $1,500 on eBay last year?

 

It was actually this year in September, and that sale was a fluke--in fact it's probably the biggest FF fluke sale of the year and deserves recognition as such! Drummy sold an FF 45 CGC 9.4 as a part of a four-issue lot including FF 44, 45, 46, and 47 all in CGC 9.4 in March 2003, and that ENTIRE lot went for $1750. The buyer re-sold each issue separately in July 2003 and the #45 went for $885; I remember that the four issues ended up selling for about $200-$300 more than Drummy got as a lot because I remember pointing that out here in the forums back in September when it sold. The CGC 9.4 copy that sold in September 2003 was only bid on by two people past the $550 mark (see bid history here: http://offer.ebay.com/ws3/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=2189597572 ), so I look at that sale as two impulsive buyers competing with each other.

 

That's not to say your point isn't a valid one or that FF #45 isn't desirable, but it's not worth $1500 of desire!!! Those two guys were out of their gourds...but they sure did make that CGC 9.8 copy hoodeedoo said he saw for $900 look like an INCREDIBLE steal!! He never did say whether or not he bought it...I hope we see THAT one up as "pretty book of the day" sometime soon!

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

It was actually this year in September, and that sale was a fluke--in fact it's probably the biggest FF fluke sale of the year and deserves recognition as such!

 

Sorry, I'm already operating in 2004 mode...yes, it was still technically this year.

 

As for the flukiest sale of the year, that FF 33 in 9.4 that went for over $1,000 is a close second.

[Drummy]

And the moral is....

 

Don't sell Fantastic Fours in lots!!!

 

Just kidding. Thankfully, I picked up a great FF #45 in 9.2 for about $300, so I feel like I got a good deal. The 9.4 I had had a huge crease by the lower staple, which really annoyed me every time I looked at it.

 

Now where can I get an FF #52 in 9.4 for about $1100?

 

Drummy

[Aman619]

So basically you want to come onto a collecting forum.. and tell a lot of people they should stop collecting comics for 4 years to wait for a crash that may or may not occur, right? Brian

 

Amen.

Im tird of the self-satisfied condemnations and warnings to comics collectors here on the forum. These guys claim they only want to "protect" the little guys who dont have "discretionaery" income to blow on their hobby: that they "fear" for those who will lose their shirts getting caught up in the HG price spiral. They actually try to sound as if they actually "care" about these people.

 

bullcrap. They just think theyre smarter than everyone else. And desperately hope to gloat about their predictions later on.

 

People post here to write about comics because they love buying them and collecting them. If you guys dont fit that description, then either stick to the positive, or find the "doomsayers club" somewhere else filled with people who totally agree with you where you can happily pick apart EVERY hobby out there. But wait, what would be th epoint? Preaching to the converted wouldnt be nearly as much fun as being the "non-conformists" who are really correct when all the sheep are stupid and lost???

 

Whats it like to have such a collossal "Jor-El" complex, trying to save everybody when no one will listen???

[Rip]

So do you think early Showcase/ Brave and the Bold, Wonder Woman 90-110 etc. are they that much easier to get than Timelys in high grade?

 

[Timely]

So do you think early Showcase/ Brave and the Bold, Wonder Woman 90-110 etc. are they that much easier to get than Timelys in high grade?

 

No, those 50's books are tough in high grade!

 

Timely