So frustrated with EBAY dealers

[BassGMan]

 

No, no flipping there, it actually went right into my collection.

 

I'm not saying what sellers have done to you is right, by the way, I'm just offering you some insight on why people might think differently about your situation based on your intentions going in.

 

Thanks Rob, I agree with you about that, good point. However, I am not really looking for sympathy, just some insight from people that have had similar experiences, wanting to know how they dealt with it, learned from it and maybe fixed it.

If you need any other individual X-Men let me know. I bought a dozen or so collections and still have most of them from #144 - 300 or so. Many copies of each. A few of them slabbed including five copies of #266 at 8.5 - 9.6 and some other keys before and after #144. All "flipped" of course. Thanks-----Sid

[ArAich]

BoC had some of the wisest insight if you intend to "flip"...

 

He said "Flipping is a a tough way to make money. It takes a knowledge & patience.

 

 

[BassGMan]

BoC had some of the wisest insight if you intend to "flip"...

 

He said "Flipping is a a tough way to make money. It takes a knowledge & patience.

 

 

Again, I agree entirely, I thought that I had this already. Apparently not as much as I need. That is why I have come here to gain this knowlege from you guys and I appreciate already what I am hearing. Thank you. Some of my stress over the matter has been relieved a little and I am gaining more knowlege with every post. I am not new to this by any means but there is still so much more to learn. -----Sid

[FlyingDonut]

So THAT is why I buy many unslabbed books. However, I am starting to learn that this may be a bad idea for the expensive ones. Thanks-----Sid

 

That's exactly it. You can have good luck with the "tweener" books that aren't high-dollar slabbed, but can bring a nice profit if you get lucky.

 

Buying expensive raw books (at least on EBay) is turning into a fool's game, with only scammers and over-graders offering "high grade gems" raw .

 

This is, of course, patently untrue.

[Darthdiesel]

Telling an old lady that her Action #1 is worth $5 bucks. Now THAT is taking advantage of a seller.

 

What? How come I'm always the last to know? Now I've got to compensate those sweet old ladies with some lovin'

 

Sorry about your 3 bum deals...since it is all done now, I'm sure you have learned from this experience and realized that you've got to buy raw from honest guys like me

[Rickdogg]

So THAT is why I buy many unslabbed books. However, I am starting to learn that this may be a bad idea for the expensive ones. Thanks-----Sid

 

That's exactly it. You can have good luck with the "tweener" books that aren't high-dollar slabbed, but can bring a nice profit if you get lucky.

 

Buying expensive raw books (at least on EBay) is turning into a fool's game, with only scammers and over-graders offering "high grade gems" raw.

 

The majority of sellers on ebay that offer these "NM Gems" are overgraders. Greggy dubbed them as "the sellers that missed the CGC train." There are a few...errr very few sellers that still offer some nice raw material that acre actually NM!

[COI]

You CAN find gems on Ebay, although it is getting increasingly difficult to do so. If you're buying expensive raw books for your own collection, try as much as possible to deal with reputable sellers, particularly national dealers. Make sure they are willing to offer large scans, and that they have a reasonable return policy. In my experience, you will get the best stuff from sellers who do not hesitate to accept returns, since they will stand by their books. Hang around here for more info, and even for buying, as this board has a very high concentration of good sellers who are both collectors and dealers. Check the "kudos" thread in the marketplace section for more detail.

 

As for buying books for profit, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and is irrelevant to whether or not you deserve fair treatment. But you should always ask yourself: In situations where a large profit margin is possible, why isn't the seller taking advantage? Meaning, if that ASM was really a FN/VF, and can be sold for double the bid price, why isn't this seller slabbing it himself? With smaller stuff(like those moderns), it just isn't worth the few extra bucks for some people. I've sold quite a few silver age books, raw, simply because the potential profits were small enough that It simply wasn't worth the time and effort for me. But on something like an ASM #1 in FN/VF, where the potential to make a couple of grand on one submission is there, I wouldn't pass that up. And the whole "I don't believe in CGC" has become the mantra of blatant over-graders and restoration artists(who sell their books as unrestored). Go look at dealer's websites, and you'll see that their raw books are priced very close to slabbed prices. There's a reason for that. Unless you have collections being offered to you on a regular basis, or you already have an inventory of raw high grades, the ship has basically sailed for making money on slabbing books. You may have success here or there, but for every gem you find, you have to deal with 10 other pieces of crepe.

[BassGMan]

You CAN find gems on Ebay, although it is getting increasingly difficult to do so. If you're buying expensive raw books for your own collection, try as much as possible to deal with reputable sellers, particularly national dealers. Make sure they are willing to offer large scans, and that they have a reasonable return policy. In my experience, you will get the best stuff from sellers who do not hesitate to accept returns, since they will stand by their books. Hang around here for more info, and even for buying, as this board has a very high concentration of good sellers who are both collectors and dealers. Check the "kudos" thread in the marketplace section for more detail.

 

As for buying books for profit, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and is irrelevant to whether or not you deserve fair treatment. But you should always ask yourself: In situations where a large profit margin is possible, why isn't the seller taking advantage? Meaning, if that ASM was really a FN/VF, and can be sold for double the bid price, why isn't this seller slabbing it himself? With smaller stuff(like those moderns), it just isn't worth the few extra bucks for some people. I've sold quite a few silver age books, raw, simply because the potential profits were small enough that It simply wasn't worth the time and effort for me. But on something like an ASM #1 in FN/VF, where the potential to make a couple of grand on one submission is there, I wouldn't pass that up. And the whole "I don't believe in CGC" has become the mantra of blatant over-graders and restoration artists(who sell their books as unrestored). Go look at dealer's websites, and you'll see that their raw books are priced very close to slabbed prices. There's a reason for that. Unless you have collections being offered to you on a regular basis, or you already have an inventory of raw high grades, the ship has basically sailed for making money on slabbing books. You may have success here or there, but for every gem you find, you have to deal with 10 other pieces of crepe.

 

Thank you, some very good insight. One problem that I have had is that I have not always stuck with the large reputable sellers offering a nice return policy. The small sellers often don't appear to be prepared when it comes time to making that return if necessary. Coming up with a grand or two for an expensive returned book is not always so easy to come by and I doubt many small sellers hold that payment just in case. Something I will keep in mind from now on.

Sure, I most definitely ask myself (or even the selling dealer) why they have not had that high end book slabbed, some may be scammers but there certainly are those that still don't know how, are not willing to put out the cash or wait, or just trust their own judgment of a book. Many "old-schoolers" out there and I understand that. But, at the same time those are probably the smaller dealers that I should be staying away from anyway. But ya' never know. I have had some outstanding buys from some small dealers that were unaware of the potential of a high graded slabbed book, or at least were not willing to take advantage of it. I also don't believe that the ship has sailed on slabbed books, although the pool is shrinking. Maybe in ten years or so but not yet. There are still too many people out there with nice unslabbed collections that are just letting there books sit for the time being, or are just not aware of CGC or their potential. WE know about this, but CGC is far from a household word yet. In the meantime (once that I can afford it again) I will be much more careful from now on but will continue to look for more inexpensive lots that may (if I'm lucky) contain a few CGC potential gems. If not, then I am still able to make off pretty decently by splitting up the lot and selling the books off in smaller groups raw. Thanks------Sid

[Zanarkand]

I have gotten some extemely good deals on Ebay from so-so sellers, and gotten burned by sellers with high positive feedback. Generally speaking, you have to realize that Ebay feedback is no more than a guideline when it comes to comics.

 

In any case, bid like the book is in less than advertised condition. Anything regular comic touted as NM I assume is VF/NM at best, and bid accordingly. Anything stated VF/NM I assume to be VF, etc. Higher profile books tend to be exaggerated even further.

 

You don't win auctions lowballing like that (I win maybe 1/4 of all I bid on) but when you get that "Sharp VF+!!!!111" and it's VF-, you feel a little vindicated.

[BassGMan]

I have gotten some extemely good deals on Ebay from so-so sellers, and gotten burned by sellers with high positive feedback. Generally speaking, you have to realize that Ebay feedback is no more than a guideline when it comes to comics.

 

In any case, bid like the book is in less than advertised condition. Anything regular comic touted as NM I assume is VF/NM at best, and bid accordingly. Anything stated VF/NM I assume to be VF, etc. Higher profile books tend to be exaggerated even further.

 

You don't win auctions lowballing like that (I win maybe 1/4 of all I bid on) but when you get that "Sharp VF+!!!!111" and it's VF-, you feel a little vindicated.

 

Yes, that is pretty much my thinking too except I haven't really assumed the lessor grade. That WAS stupidity on MY part. I guess I have been too trusting. I also just wanted to add another statement to the guy that made the comment about the CGC ship has already sailed. If THAT was TRUE then CGC would be out of business. We can see from their often delayed shipping schedules (especially with moderns and economy) that that is hardly the case. Someday though, their business WILL slow down. But I believe we will not be there for years. -----Sid

[joe_collector]

I also just wanted to add another statement to the guy that made the comment about the CGC ship has already sailed. If THAT was TRUE then CGC would be out of business.

 

You misread the intent. It has nothing to do with CGC, but the concept of "buying true NM raw and flipping it for mass profits" has sailed long ago, assuming you aren't a dealer with saps walking in the door, longboxes in hand, and have to deal with the retail/EBay side of things.

 

Dealers are CGC's main source of revenue, and it'll be a long, long, long, long, long while before supplies dry up on that end.

[garthgantu]

This is why I've shifted to buying off eBay for the most part. Find a couple of good eBay sellers near you, and then get them to give you the heads-up before they put stuff up in auctions... many times they're happy to sell at a % of guide since you're saving them the hassle of listing the books, packing and shipping, etc. And you get the added security of seeing before you buy...

[COI]

I also just wanted to add another statement to the guy that made the comment about the CGC ship has already sailed. If THAT was TRUE then CGC would be out of business.

 

No, because it isn't just NM Silver that's being submitted to CGC. Don't underestimate how many moderns they probably recieve, month to month, right off of the stands, not to mention the amount of lower grade stuff that leaves little to no profit(and often a loss, I bet) to the sender. CGC collects its fees, whether you send in a restored 2.0, or a NM 9.4. And now they've started grading Magazines, and will likely have their hands full with those for some time. That's why CGC isn't going out of business. But the time for the casual collector/seller to gem hunt, and submit NM silver for big profits has passed, unless you have dealer type resources and are putting bids on large collections(privately). And even then, it's tough. Just ask some dealers how many "NM collections" are actually "NM collections", and how many VG's and FN's they have to sift through to get the gems you see them come up with.

 

[BassGMan]

I also just wanted to add another statement to the guy that made the comment about the CGC ship has already sailed. If THAT was TRUE then CGC would be out of business.

 

No, because it isn't just NM Silver that's being submitted to CGC. Don't underestimate how many moderns they probably recieve, month to month, right off of the stands, not to mention the amount of lower grade stuff that leaves little to no profit(and often a loss, I bet) to the sender. CGC collects its fees, whether you send in a restored 2.0, or a NM 9.4. And now they've started grading Magazines, and will likely have their hands full with those for some time. That's why CGC isn't going out of business. But the time for the casual collector/seller to gem hunt, and submit NM silver for big profits has passed, unless you have dealer type resources and are putting bids on large collections(privately). And even then, it's tough. Just ask some dealers how many "NM collections" are actually "NM collections", and how many VG's and FN's they have to sift through to get the gems you see them come up with.

 

Hello, maybe I am naive but I just cannot accept this as true, at least for the modern books. My story is that I have tried to specialize in ASM (I tried Uncanny X first but ASM stirs up WAY more interest) by buying lots advertised on Ebay in groups of 50 plus books usually advertised at VF to Near Mint or so (typical right?). At the prices I am paying I don't even expect to get all high grades. If I pay $300 for ASM 250-400 (a typical lot for sale) advertised at VF-NM and I take out the best copies (hopefully a #252,298,300, or even 312,315,316,317) and send maybe the 10 best into CGC, odds are that I will be able to payoff the lot plus CGC fees plus maybe have considerable funds left over and STILL have all the raw books left that I can sell in groups of five or so. I do this and it works, of course some are better than others. Those true NMs still ARE out there but yes, you need to do a lot of sifting to find them. Hey, this work beats being a couch potato and watching too many reruns of Frasier and Everybody Loves Raymond. Of course all this is done after getting home from my "real" job. Maybe I am an optimist but as far as moderns go at least, I am a very happy "flipper". ----Sid

[Flaming_Telepath]

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but Comix32 is only the latest in a long line of eBay IDs for this seller. The seller is not a Mary Macri, but rather a guy who changes his name as frequently as I change my socks (OK, so that's not that frequent...)

 

I bought some 'NM' books from him when his eBay ID was 'lastmanstanding' and they turned out to be some of the biggest POS bits of junk I've ever had the displeasure of fouling my mailbox with.

 

As soon as the negs pile up too high, or eBay rumbles to his 'split personality' problems, this guy simply opens another ID and continues towards his personal goal of making 'stkwizrd', or whatever the 's ID is, look like a CGC grader.

 

Sorry, my friend.

[goldust40]

 

 

 

 

I am a very happy flipper.

 

Sounds like a good name for a book - "The Happy Flipper". Think of the sequels!

[BassGMan]

I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad tidings, but Comix32 is only the latest in a long line of eBay IDs for this seller. The seller is not a Mary Macri, but rather a guy who changes his name as frequently as I change my socks (OK, so that's not that frequent...)

 

I bought some 'NM' books from him when his eBay ID was 'lastmanstanding' and they turned out to be some of the biggest POS bits of junk I've ever had the displeasure of fouling my mailbox with.

 

As soon as the negs pile up too high, or eBay rumbles to his 'split personality' problems, this guy simply opens another ID and continues towards his personal goal of making 'stkwizrd', or whatever the 's ID is, look like a CGC grader.

 

Sorry, my friend.

 

Telepath, thanks for the info. In all honesty I was not ALL that disappointed with this lot in question (the one with the trimmed GSX #1) but I was certainly very displeased with the trimming on this one. All in all the rest of the books were not that bad and not that inaccurately described. However, without the key book being described (and pictured) as an NM, my bid would have been considerably lower. My 5.0 #94 certainly came in lower than described too, but at least that one was not trimmed.

 

IMPORTANT (to me at least) remember those 3 copies of Hulk #181 that I described in the initial post on this thread? Well, here's the deal. I got them back from CGC saturday all graded much lower than what was promised (see first post). I e-mailed the guy right away and he just got back to me today. He wanted to be good to his word and offer me a full refund plus CGC fees as offered in his return policy. Great, right? The guy, who appears to be honest (am I being too trusting again) stated that as a small seller he is currently out of funds due to Christmas and etc, and wants me to ship the books back to him so that he can sell them and then pay me back as soon as he can retrieve the funds through the sales and other means. He has feedback of almost 300 with a 99.7 rating (I don't want to mention any names as he may actually be a good guy that just made an honest grading mistake). Not bad marks and almost all feedback is as a seller. What do you guys think? Sounds reasonable to me although he will have the books AND my money for at least a few weeks. Thanks again (as always) ----Sid

[uclapeterg]

Call me a pessimist, but I wouldn't do it. Tell him to sell some of his other books to raise the cash. What did he spend the money you gave him on? As a matter of rule, I NEVER spend money paid to me until the customer is happy with the transaction.

[Timely]

A few weeks?!? More like a few months dude!

 

Timely

[jkrk]

I'll tell you what I find interesting about a post like this. The reader is able to reach conclusions about other posters based on his/her comments about a specific dealer.