What is considered the first Sgt. Rock appearance?

[Mutant Manatee]

True, but I thought that happened in AF #15, not ASM #1. I don't have either book in front of me at the moment but I think I recall one panel at the end where he is called Peter Palmer. If it only happened once, that suggests to me that it was a typo that slipped past proofreading.

 

 

If I remember correctly, he is called Peter Palmer in ASM #1 throughout the entire issue, not just in one place. I don't believe that he is called "Palmer" in AF #15. Maybe you are thinking of the last panel in AF #15 where Spider-Man's eyes are visible while he is in costume. Obviously Stan had too much on his plate in those days and had trouble keeping things straight.

[metropoliscomics]

#81

[Silver]

#81

 

wrong, it's 83.

[metropoliscomics]

#81

 

wrong, it's 83.

 

wrong, it is 81.

[MrBedrock]

#81

 

wrong, it's 83.

 

wrong, it is 81.

422 was the last one, so that ain't it.

[Silver]

#81

 

wrong, it's 83.

 

wrong, it is 81.

 

Support your argument that Sgt. Rocky is the first appearance of Sgt. Rock instead of the guy called Sgt. Rock in 83...

 

 

[Aman619]

the first appearance is whichever comic you have a HG copy for sale of at any given time.

[bigfiver69]

Technically, the first book that shows a character identified as 'Sgt. Rock' is OAAW #82.

 

But it's a single panel, it doesn't look like Rock, and in my view, it represents just another 'bit' player in the cast of characters that Bob Kanigher and other writers created to show up for a story, and then disappear.

 

The first appearance of Sgt. Rock is OAAW #83. The legend starts there.

 

OAAW #81 and #82 are great books, but the 'Rock-like' characters were mere appetizers for the main course in #83.

 

For those guys who have all three books, take them out tonight and read the three issues. Where does Rock really show up to the party? It's #83. It just is.

 

#81 and #82 should both be $75 books in FN. The only reason #81 is still in play as a big money book is because Overstreet wrongly tagged it as the first appearance many years ago, and a lot of guys (myself included) piled money into that book. And no one wants to see their investment get hurt.

 

Say it with me.... Our Army at War #83.

 

Shep

 

 

[Silver]

Agree with Shep totally, and I don't own a single issue of OAAW....wait, I think I have a 206 or something ...

 

My point was that I consider guys like Shep, Chris Pedrin, Mick, and others to be experts on this topic and they all agree that 83 is the true first appearance.

[Comicopolis]

Technically, the first book that shows a character identified as 'Sgt. Rock' is OAAW #82.

 

But it's a single panel, it doesn't look like Rock, and in my view, it represents just another 'bit' player in the cast of characters that Bob Kanigher and other writers created to show up for a story, and then disappear.

 

The first appearance of Sgt. Rock is OAAW #83. The legend starts there.

 

OAAW #81 and #82 are great books, but the 'Rock-like' characters were mere appetizers for the main course in #83.

 

For those guys who have all three books, take them out tonight and read the three issues. Where does Rock really show up to the party? It's #83. It just is.

 

#81 and #82 should both be $75 books in FN. The only reason #81 is still in play as a big money book is because Overstreet wrongly tagged it as the first appearance many years ago, and a lot of guys (myself included) piled money into that book. And no one wants to see their investment get hurt.

 

Say it with me.... Our Army at War #83.

 

Shep

 

 

I'm convinced (thumbs u

[MrBedrock]

#81 and #82 should both be $75 books in FN. The only reason #81 is still in play as a big money book is because Overstreet wrongly tagged it as the first appearance many years ago, and a lot of guys (myself included) piled money into that book. And no one wants to see their investment get hurt.

 

While I agree that OAAW 83 is probably the more important Sgt. Rock early appearance (and probably his first true appearance), the above statement is really way off base. OAAW 81 and 82 as well as G.I. Combat 68 are still very important books which continue to sell for big numbers.

[bigfiver69]

Agree with Shep totally, and I don't own a single issue of OAAW....wait, I think I have a 206 or something ...

 

My point was that I consider guys like Shep, Chris Pedrin, Mick, and others to be experts on this topic and they all agree that 83 is the true first appearance.

 

I am humbled, and blushing, kind sir.

[Jeffro.]

#81 and #82 should both be $75 books in FN. The only reason #81 is still in play as a big money book is because Overstreet wrongly tagged it as the first appearance many years ago, and a lot of guys (myself included) piled money into that book. And no one wants to see their investment get hurt.

 

While I agree that OAAW 83 is probably the more important Sgt. Rock early appearance (and probably his first true appearance), the above statement is really way off base. OAAW 81 and 82 as well as G.I. Combat 68 are still very important books which continue to sell for big numbers.

 

I agree that 81 and 82 are important, but 81 is not as important as 83 and the fact that 83 is still lagging behind 81 is ridiculous. I'm not saying that 81 should get a dramatic price decrease, only that 83 should be worth more.

 

[bigfiver69]

#81 and #82 should both be $75 books in FN. The only reason #81 is still in play as a big money book is because Overstreet wrongly tagged it as the first appearance many years ago, and a lot of guys (myself included) piled money into that book. And no one wants to see their investment get hurt.

 

While I agree that OAAW 83 is probably the more important Sgt. Rock early appearance (and probably his first true appearance), the above statement is really way off base. OAAW 81 and 82 as well as G.I. Combat 68 are still very important books which continue to sell for big numbers.

 

 

Hmmm.

 

I love OAAW #82 and GIC #68... great stories, and certainly loose threads that Kanigher would eventually weave into his storytelling that became Rock. But those books are not first appearances... and I never got too hyped up on prototype chasing - seemed more like something that the 'seller' side of the hobby cooked up to inflate the prices on non-key books.

 

My experience with collectors of silver age war is that the real joy in the books of this era (as Mick Rabin identified in an article as the 'Pre-character' age) is the wonderful anthology stories, and the distinct lack of continuity. The mixing and matching of artists and writers, and the inventiveness of that era's storytelling (considering the times, and the restrictions of the Code.) was marvelous, and identifiable with the 1952-1959 era.

 

That changed RADICALLY only after OAAW #83.... not before. The immediate success of Rock led directly to the rapid conception of the Haunted Tank, Marie, Johnny Cloud, Capt. Storm, Gunner & Sarge and the rest of the cast. That makes that book a clear, distinct line of demarcation. That's what makes #83 the valuable, important and sought-after book it deserves to be.

 

The other books (OAAW #82 and GIC #68) belong to the previous era. They are no more significant, in my view, than OAAW #80 and GIC #67 - also great books, but books containing unrelated, close-ended anthology stories. And those, I hate to say it, are $75 books in FN... not $750. Nor should they be.

 

Just my two cents. I love all of these books. I just hate seeing books inflated out of the reach of everyday collectors.

 

Shep

 

 

[MrBedrock]

That is an interesting point of view, but not one that I share. Especially from a value standpoint. OAAW 83 should be, and probably will be valued much higher than 81 in the near future. But 81 will always, always be more desired and valued than 80,79, 78 etc.

[KirbyJack]

Here's where I get hung up. This is a direct quote from OAAW #81. "Here is the first of many stories of the fabulous fighting E Company and of their rugged sergeant who faced the enemy officer called The Iron Captain in...The Rock of Easy Co.!"

 

That sounds like an editorial commitment to the sort of "post-character" stories mentioned earlier. That he is called Rocky doesn't bother me any more than Spidey getting mistakenly called Palmer. He looks a bit off, but so did The Thing in his early days. As Jim said, a true evolution. It is a bit hazy.

 

That said, I still have faith that Sgt. Rock's real followers are correct, and that I'll understand once I get a copy of Our Army at War #83.

[bigfiver69]

At the end of the day... they're all just wicked comics. And I hate to argue about them - they're just pure love, from 1952 all the way up to 1988.

 

My brother introduced me to war comics (he's ten years older than me). He had a big 'ol box of them that I found in 1973 (I was 4!) and I couldn't even read! It was love at first sight... totally fell for them. Anyway, he called me the other night and he had just bought all the Showcase compilations, and he was happier than a pig in turd... he'd forgotten how great they were.

 

Just wait.. he'll turn up at the next Heritage Auction, and blow all the prices back up!

 

Shep

 

 

[Silver]

As a complete aside....

 

how many complete big 5 collections do you think there are?

[Aman619]

guys, also factor in along the lines of what Kirby Jack mentioned, that DC and Kanigher and Kubert (I think) have gone on record as stating that 68, 81, and 82 were all conceived as part of the evolution of the Sgt Rock character that solidified (perhaps) in 83. Their comments were in the intro to the DC Archive collection .

 

So, if they went to theses guys to say a few words about the gestation of Rock, either this is what they remembered, or, DC had already selected these stories and wanted them to put their stamp on what had already been decided at DC.

 

So DCs "official" selection is 68, then 81, 82 and 83. So even if Fandom (us) eventually coalesces on 83 and the price skyrockets, the other three wont ever be relegated to common status.

 

 

[bigfiver69]

As a complete aside....

 

how many complete big 5 collections do you think there are?

 

I know of four people who have complete collections, but there are certainly others who've done it.

 

Wish I was one of them...

 

Shep