Spider-Man 21 ....trimmed?

[the_Greatest]

I think I have made up my mind, but I would like opinions.

This # Spidey 21

 

is for sale, I think it looks trimmed. emailed for dims, received 6-3/4 X 10.

 

this is off the Gallery copy. Awesome

 

What do you guys (gals) think ?

[supapimp]

the best thing to do is lay that book on another SA book, but from that scan it's hard to tell.

 

 

[Red Hook]

Hi Greatest,

 

I was intrigued by your question, and downloaded both scans you linked to. I opened them both in Photoshop and placed the suspect copy on top of the other and scaled it precisely so that the logo, and artwork on the cover were exactly overlaid on top of each other. I set the transparency of the suspect cover so that I could see right through it as I lined them up.

 

 

As a result, taking into account that different copies will be cut diffferently at the printers, but that the dimensions should still be similar, I came to the result that the copy you are considering went through a MAJOR HACK JOB! See how much the suspect copy comes up short when scaled and laid exactly on top of the gallery cover. The suspect copy extended a bit over the gallery copy a bit on the left side, but didn't come close to making up the shortage on the right side. Same for the bottom shortage.

 

I think this is a pretty good way to check for trimming. Hope this helps!

 

 

See how much was hacked off the right side and the bottom? This is my conclusion, anyway.

 

 

[the_Greatest]

its just impossible to buy raw on Ebay. the two books are stapled at the same point on the cover art, but the raw book ends sooner at the CCA box. I think it has to be trimmed.

[Red Hook]

Here is a screenshot of the suspect copy laid on top of the gallery copy, with the transparency of the top (suspect) copy set to about 80%, and just before I moved it to sit exactly on top of the lower scan. This should show you a bit more clearly what I did. I think the evidence is hard to refute. I think this is a good way to check for trimming (that's fairly extensive at least) using only scans.

 

[the_Greatest]

Man.... nice job. I just copied your 2nd address in your earlier post and viewed it, it was much clearer and absolutely shows the 2-3/16th butchering. Thanks Bud.

[the_Greatest]

[Red Hook]

Finally got the first scan up....I had two in that post and I guess the board has a limit on file sizes per post. Glad to be of help! Anytime Greatest.

[fantastic_four]

the best thing to do is lay that book on another SA book, but from that scan it's hard to tell.

 

The widths of Silver Age Marvels varied by up to 1/2", so that technique is one of the worst--although if you were inferring that's about as much as you can do with a scan, you're probably right. The reigning king of grading and restoration-related disinformation, comic-keys, is quite fond of using width as evidence a comic is not trimmed; he does it because it sounds somewhat convincing and he's very well aware that the large majority of collectors don't know that it's an inconclusive way to prove a trim. A narrow book is definitely circumstantial evidence of a trim, but the widths varied too much for it to be a direct indicator. It's definitely enough to make me not bid.

 

Here's a thread showing evidence that Silver Marvels varied in width:

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=gradeandresto&Number=196653

[Red Hook]

That sounds like good information.....I think that in this particular case, the discrepency is so large, that even without being 100% sure, I'd steer clear. That's definitely going to cut down on the percentage of messed-with books you end up with.

 

Also, do you know FF, how much of a variation from true right angles can occur in a factory cut? Is there any info on that anywhere?

 

Thanks.

[fantastic_four]

Also, do you know FF, how much of a variation from true right angles can occur in a factory cut? Is there any info on that anywhere?

 

The guys on the press line were supposed to toss out the miscuts, but if it was minor, they didn't always do it. Here's an example of a slabbed one that's about as bad as any I've ever seen:

 

[Red Hook]

OY!

[the_Greatest]

 

 

Is it my business to forward this thread to the guy that won this book?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2212632603&category=32743&rd=1

[Red Hook]

 

 

Yes...without comment. And let him draw his own conclusions.

[the_Greatest]

..........................

 

 

ahhhh. I don't know, just looked at his bid history...looks like he's a player....I'm going to assume he's a big boy and he can take care of himself. If somebody feels differently , by all means do.

[Red Hook]

Understood, Greatest.

 

Your call!

[fantastic_four]

You could e-mail him and ask him whether he thinks there's a chance the book is trimmed. If he sounds knowledgable on the topic, then forward him here...if not, I wouldn't. None of us know whether this book is trimmed--remember that before you bias him into thinking he got ripped off.