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sad that CGC's new bronze pricing will turn even 9.8's into $$ losers

Started by dekeuk,

86 posts in this topic

Moondog

Moondog

Posted
Posted
And this makes me laugh when I see people defending the change in the modern tier because "people are making big bucks" off some books from this era... like somehow CGC should get a "piece of the pie." Using the same rationale, perhaps they should consider lowering prices on books where the submitter doesn't see any appreciation in value due to the slab.

 

;)

 

I think CGC can charge what they want...it's their business...and it would appear that they are not exactly printing money at Sarasota, but are at least turning a profit and remaining a solid business.

 

However, I do wonder whether, long-term, the model actually works? As more and more GA/SA/BA gets slabbed, two things happen. One, there are less raw books to slab in the future and two, people get more choosy with what they submit. Initially, we saw unreal prices on 8.5s and 9.0s, but now? Now a lot of them are in line with OS, if not a touch below with some of them.

 

I can see this leading to a diminishing of submissions and the market basically trading the same pre-slabbed books over and over again with a slow flow of new additions.

 

That would mean that the Modern market would be where CGC would have to make their coin and I accept that every week, there are more and more potential slabbing candidates released. However, a lot of people are now (finally) concluding that moderns aren't worth slabbing unless they are at least 9.8 and with the price hike, maybe not even then.

 

I don't know the answer, so I'll throw this out there...how many brand new coins are encased? You know the ones, common as muck, but in great shape? Is this a real money-maker in the coinee market? (shrug)

 

A very well thought out and executed post. Bravo, FT!

 

I've said this before, CGC needs to slab tons of new/modern comics to make a profit, but since 99+% of these books aren't worth the slab they're in - that market is just about dead (until the next Obama/Death of ______ hot books hits).

 

When it was determined that slabbed low to mid-grade SA books bring no premium over raw - that market dried up for CGC.

 

Bronze is a big money maker for them - that's why they changed the dates to 1980. Plentiful supply in hi-grade (especially after pressing) and a slabbing premium.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Mr. Zipper

Mr. Zipper

Posted
Posted

I think it's probably a fair bet that most of the comics CGC grades will not recoup slabbing expenses.

 

Zip,

 

You are one of the most consistently solid posters around here. I must, however, ask you whether you honestly believe this or are you trying to get a rise out of people? It was buried in a longer post, but this is a serious statement that you have posited.

 

Do you mean that the average seller will not be able to sell an accurately graded raw copy for what the slabbed copy sells for on GPA minus slabbing fees? If so, I agree with you.

 

Or do you mean that "most" of the books currently in slabs could be sold for enough money raw that the slabbing costs are extraneous?

 

Or am I just being thick?

 

:hi:

 

What I was driving at is that for every high grade jackpot book, there are probably 2 books where the slab doesn't add enough value to recoup slabbing costs. For every SA 9.0 and above, there's probably 2 below 9.0 that won't garner an extra $35 to recoup the slabbing costs. For every 9.4+ bronze, there are 2 below that where the seller eats the slabbing cost. (Again, this doesn't necessarily apply to keys or high value books.)

 

I dunno... maybe I am wrong. Just seems to me that we focus on the winners, but there are an awful lot of losers where people send in common midgrade books.

 

I'm not disputing that CGC has a right to raise prices. I was just pointing out that the notion that "there are a lot of valuable books from 75 - 80" justifies a shift in the modern tier is weak. First, there are a lot more losers than winners, and secondly, books that are that valuable get bumped in tier anyway due to value limits on the modern tier.

 

Seems like all this tier shift will do is reduce submissions. (shrug) It'll have minimal impact of the high priced X-books because they would have gotten tier bumped anyway. And it will cut out all the under $50 books which have to be the vast majority of books from that era.

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conditionfreak

conditionfreak

Posted
Posted

I believe that y'all are forgeting the factors of those that "have to" complete runs in certain grades, and more importantly, the fact that comic book collecting (like collecting in general) is an addiction. Slabbing is also an addiction.

 

I can not tell you how many times I have bought comics that I didn't even care about owning, because I am addicted to buying comics. Many of you are also. Admit it.

 

I assume that there are those that are addicted to slabbing as well (I say this because of examples as shown on this tread).

 

Comic books from now on, will be slabbed. Take Final Crisis #6 or ASM #583. How many have been slabbed or submitted for slabbing? I haven't looked it up on the census yet, but I am guessing plenty. A potentially worthless book. Yet..............

 

 

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dikran

dikran

Posted
Posted

I'm a completist and I don't envision sending late BA books to be graded, I'd rather buy them already slabbed and pay a little more for the peace of mind. Most of the late 70's common books have been collecting dust in dealer bins for almost 35 years now going from show to show, could there be that many 9.8 gems in there? Why risk it? Just my 2c

 

We'll just have to battle it out more ferociously when some of the 1-2 9.8s of random issues go up for auction. Demand could be low but the supply might eventually be lower...

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Old Fashion PB and J

Old Fashion PB and J

Posted
Posted

Ok.. Time for my pearls of wisdom. :whistle:

 

1. The book originally posted looks pretty cool. Dekeuk is a Batman completist from BA-CA. So for him the book he posted is not worthless. And if it had more then one bid, then someobody else agreed. Because the hammer price wasnt high means absolutely nothing. The past few weeks I have seen a few books I was watching sell ridiculously low. And not all were BA/MA books.

 

2. The change in tier does indeed create a question as to what CGC is thinking. My take is they are thinking more money OR try and slow down the submissions of this era so that submissions stay at a steady rate (plentiful they may be, but not unlimited in supply). And if someone really wants a certain book bad enough in a specific grade then obviously value tier, and prescreen. And if you just want the one book try and find someone you can submit with.

 

3. I buy books all the time that may or may not sell for what I paid. I accept this. I just happen to want said book, and have no interest in selling at this time anyways.

 

 

 

And can we all just start doing pressing pre-screens, then 9.8 pre screens as a group? It sounds like every 9.8 is pressed anyways................

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Dmac538

Dmac538

Posted
Posted

What would of been nice of CGC to do, would have been to cut the 30 book value tier to 20. That would offset a little of the change from 1975 to 1980, i would submit more books, even with the increase.

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TheShadowKnows

TheShadowKnows

Posted
Posted
Some people are just slab happy

 

I prefer raw books myself. Been collecting them long before CGC came aboard.

 

Course..it is nice to have a HG silver-age or older key slabbed that is worth big $$.

 

But the average books to me are a waste of time being slabbed. Why on earth slab a book that isn't even worth the cost of slabbing itself. I've seen so many slabbed books sell at Ebay for under $10 it's rediculous. I just don't get it.

Three reasons:

 

1.) As evidenced by the previous thread, some people can't grade.

 

2.) Some folks have their books graded for sentimental reasons.

 

3.) People that can grade, make mistakes from time to time.

When I first started collecting (at the turn of the century)everyone knew how to grade.Im really shocked at the percent of people who cant grade to save their lives.

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
When I first started collecting (at the turn of the century)everyone knew how to grade.Im really shocked at the percent of people who cant grade to save their lives.

 

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but I'll answer anyway. I don't think any more people used to grade in the past any better than now. What has happened though is CGC made collectors tighten up their grading. There's not as much of a spread for NM as before for example. So essentially what was generally regarded a NM in the past by the majority of collectors is now considered a VF. And if a seller has not tighten their grading over the years to reflect, then they will be seen as not being able to grade...

 

Jim

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Moondog

Moondog

Posted
Posted
When I first started collecting (at the turn of the century)everyone knew how to grade.Im really shocked at the percent of people who cant grade to save their lives.

 

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but I'll answer anyway. I don't think any more people used to grade in the past any better than now. What has happened though is CGC made collectors tighten up their grading. There's not as much of a spread for NM as before for example. So essentially what was generally regarded a NM in the past by the majority of collectors is now considered a VF. And if a seller has not tighten their grading over the years to reflect, then they will be seen as not being able to grade...

 

Jim

 

Jim,

 

I've got to disagree with you here. CGC grading standards (whatever they are) are much looser and today's NM is the old VF/NM.

 

Granted there was more blatant over-grading across the board in the past, but properly graded VF's of 1989 are now VF/NMs and NMs twenty years later.

 

--Gary

 

 

 

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awe4one

awe4one

Posted
Posted
Jim,

 

I've got to disagree with you here. CGC grading standards (whatever they are) are much looser and today's NM is the old VF/NM.

 

Granted there was more blatant over-grading across the board in the past, but properly graded VF's of 1989 are now VF/NMs and NMs twenty years later.

 

--Gary

 

My comment was based on looking through my collection recently and noting some comics I bought 15-20 years ago as NM, some from very respectable dealers at the time and still selling today, are in fact not. If I bought a NM comic from them today, I have no question it would be as advertised. That tells me the grading tighten up somewhere over time with my guess being after CGC's arrival...

 

Jim

 

 

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conditionfreak

conditionfreak

Posted
Posted
Comic books from now on, will be slabbed.

 

Nope.

 

Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope.

 

Nope.

 

The vast majority...yes, the vast majority...of comic books will remain out of a slab. Just as they are now, just as they will ever be. (thumbs u

 

Here was my posting:

 

"I believe that y'all are forgeting the factors of those that "have to" complete runs in certain grades, and more importantly, the fact that comic book collecting (like collecting in general) is an addiction. Slabbing is also an addiction.

 

I can not tell you how many times I have bought comics that I didn't even care about owning, because I am addicted to buying comics. Many of you are also. Admit it.

 

I assume that there are those that are addicted to slabbing as well (I say this because of examples as shown on this tread).

 

Comic books from now on, will be slabbed. Take Final Crisis #6 or ASM #583. How many have been slabbed or submitted for slabbing? I haven't looked it up on the census yet, but I am guessing plenty. A potentially worthless book. Yet.............. "

 

You have taken my sentence you quoted, out of the context of the whole posting. My point was that SOME comic books will be slabbed, forever. Not all. Nothing is ever "all".

 

This can not be disputed at this point in collecting. Maybe some day something will replace slabbing (I don't know, maybe each and every page could be covered with spray on mylar to allow "coated" books to be read and yet preserved).

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toro

toro

Posted
Posted

I don't know if it has been said, but maybe they should have created two value tiers like they have for when a Silver/Golden age book is worth more then $250 it gets bumped into the Standard tier.

 

Maybe it would have been better to have a Modern Economy and a Modern Standard. With say a value of $100 max for modern economy. So all GS X-Men #1 would move into a modern standard range.

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
When I first started collecting (at the turn of the century)everyone knew how to grade.Im really shocked at the percent of people who cant grade to save their lives.

 

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic but I'll answer anyway. I don't think any more people used to grade in the past any better than now. What has happened though is CGC made collectors tighten up their grading. There's not as much of a spread for NM as before for example. So essentially what was generally regarded a NM in the past by the majority of collectors is now considered a VF. And if a seller has not tighten their grading over the years to reflect, then they will be seen as not being able to grade...

 

Jim

 

Jim,

 

I've got to disagree with you here. CGC grading standards (whatever they are) are much looser and today's NM is the old VF/NM.

 

Granted there was more blatant over-grading across the board in the past, but properly graded VF's of 1989 are now VF/NMs and NMs twenty years later.

 

--Gary

 

 

 

Gary, as somebody who was seriously collecting from probably '73 onwards, and part-time dealing from 1991, I can agree with this analysis. I've found that with the low and mid-grade stuff, I'm mainly in line with current CGC standards. However, when we got up to the VF/NM and better grades, I seem to be stricter in many cases, as 'top of the shop' for me was pretty much always 'NM', with nothing better. (thumbs u

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