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Sports Card Community - Restoration: Does Comic Book Industry Have it Right?

Started by esquirecomics,

105 posts in this topic

capt_comics

capt_comics

Posted
Posted
i think T206 is a series, not a specific card, but i'm no card expert or even close to an authority...

 

That it is, but it's a tough set all around, and happens to include the Honus card.

 

Was that the specific card you got, Capt...? ;)

 

I could wish :insane:

 

It was a HOFer but not Wagner :D

 

 

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carcrawfordfan

carcrawfordfan

Posted
Posted
Mark,

 

There are some differences. Pressing in the card business can be detected and is considered resto. Just got back a T206 last year that had been pressed. Beckett would not slab.

 

 

Lots of new cards can be trimmed because of very slight natural differences in card size. I know someone that does this to get Beckett 9.5 and PSA 10s (he has made LOTS of money doing this)

 

 

U know KB?

 

Is he in NC?

 

Sure is.

 

SJJ on ebay?

 

 

He has a bunch more accounts, but I have known him for about 10+ years from shows and whatnot. He is pretty well hated on the PSA/Beckett boards for his various offenses.

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buttock

buttock

Posted
Posted
The key to detecting pressing done on (many) comics.....

 

::gossip:...it's in the gloss.....

 

Many but not all.

 

No, not all...but it's a hell of decent sign.

 

One of the usual suspects will be along shortly to tell you how poor Susan C is at her job, but she has stated that she can detect pressing when it has been performed.

 

Fairly confident statement, that...but of course, she doesn't know what she's doing. meh

 

Simply for the sake of being contrarian...

 

I was going through some old comic book stuff (CBMs, OSPGs, etc.) and came across an article on restoration in which Susan C. stated that pressing was undetectable.

 

This was mid-1990s or so. I thought that was interesting given her current stance.

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Ze-man

Ze-man

Posted
Posted
The key to detecting pressing done on (many) comics.....

 

::gossip:...it's in the gloss.....

 

Many but not all.

 

No, not all...but it's a hell of decent sign.

 

One of the usual suspects will be along shortly to tell you how poor Susan C is at her job, but she has stated that she can detect pressing when it has been performed.

 

Fairly confident statement, that...but of course, she doesn't know what she's doing. meh

 

C'mon Nick, this isn't really a fair argument. First of all I cannot think of one person that has ever had a bad thing to say about Susan, or the work she performs. And secondly if you ask Susan she would tell you that it is not possible to detect pressing reliably because so many unknown factors are at play.

 

She can make as educated a guess as anybody that pressing was in fact the reason why a book currently displays certain traits, but what type of detection are are we talking about?

 

Improperly pressed books by some heat plate johnny?, poor pressing candidates?, books that display obvious spine roll wear?, creased overhang made straight again?, or every book that was pressed no matter the method, or condition?

 

I guess I just tire of hearing people say they can detect pressed books, not because I do not think they can but because I think they need to narrow their parameters of what types of pressing they feel confident in detecting, and telling people why.

 

 

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thirdgreenham

thirdgreenham

Posted
Posted
This link was sent to me today b/c I happen to be quoted.

 

Restoration: Does Comic Book Industry Have it Right?

 

It is an interesting, but brief, attempt at creating a discussion within the sports card community as to how that community should look upon restoration. The question is raised whether we, in the comic book community, have it right, i.e., our views, when it comes to restoration.

 

As many of you may know, the card community has been besieged in recent years with allegations of scandal and fraud involving restoration.

 

Does the comic book industry have it right? I don't think so, but these are the rules that are in place right now. As long as it's considered fine to press books, then pressing will remain rampant.

 

Andy

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Davenport

Davenport

Posted
Posted

 

C'mon Nick, this isn't a fair argument. First of all I cannot think of one person that has ever had a bad thing to say about Susan, or the work she performs.

 

C'mon Ze, you know better. (tsk) Susan's rep got spitballed by the head purist-hater himself, on more than one occasion. For instance: CLICK

 

And secondly if you ask Susan she would tell you that it is not possible to detect pressing reliably because so many unknown factors are at play.

When pressing detection comes up there always has to be a caveat, like "reliably" or "consistently", to explain away CGC's lack of detection efforts. It's bull. CGC goes after trimming, even though it's not 100% consistent or 100% reliable. They care, so they try.

 

Bottom line, CGC doesn't care about pressing. My understanding is CGC wouldn't notate a label "pressed" if the submittor swore to it. It's a non-issue as far as they're concerned. If they did care they could start by putting a CGC-witness in Matt's workshop, like they do with Sig books. Customer service for those that want those books, and ones who don't. If they cared.

 

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Ze-man

Ze-man

Posted
Posted

 

C'mon Nick, this isn't a fair argument. First of all I cannot think of one person that has ever had a bad thing to say about Susan, or the work she performs.

 

C'mon Ze, you know better. (tsk) Susan's rep got spitballed by the head purist-hater himself, on more than one occasion. For instance: CLICK

 

And secondly if you ask Susan she would tell you that it is not possible to detect pressing reliably because so many unknown factors are at play.

When pressing detection comes up there always has to be a caveat, like "reliably" or "consistently", to explain away CGC's lack of detection efforts. It's bull. CGC goes after trimming, even though it's not 100% consistent or 100% reliable. They care, so they try.

 

Bottom line, CGC doesn't care about pressing. My understanding is CGC wouldn't notate a label "pressed" if the submittor swore to it. It's a non-issue as far as they're concerned. If they did care they could start by putting a CGC-witness in Matt's workshop, like they do with Sig books. Customer service for those that want those books, and ones who don't. If they cared.

 

Actually I do know better Dav, better then most so stop waving your finger at me.

 

And there is a caveat because a book can appear pressed even if it was not intentionally pressed, a trimmed book cannot.

 

You want CGC to label it if they spot it, take it up with them.

 

 

 

 

 

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BRB-migration

BRB-migration

Posted
Posted

 

C'mon Nick, this isn't a fair argument. First of all I cannot think of one person that has ever had a bad thing to say about Susan, or the work she performs.

 

C'mon Ze, you know better. (tsk) Susan's rep got spitballed by the head purist-hater himself, on more than one occasion. For instance: CLICK

 

And secondly if you ask Susan she would tell you that it is not possible to detect pressing reliably because so many unknown factors are at play.

When pressing detection comes up there always has to be a caveat, like "reliably" or "consistently", to explain away CGC's lack of detection efforts. It's bull. CGC goes after trimming, even though it's not 100% consistent or 100% reliable. They care, so they try.

 

Bottom line, CGC doesn't care about pressing. My understanding is CGC wouldn't notate a label "pressed" if the submittor swore to it. It's a non-issue as far as they're concerned. If they did care they could start by putting a CGC-witness in Matt's workshop, like they do with Sig books. Customer service for those that want those books, and ones who don't. If they cared.

 

If there was big money in detecting Pressing, CGC would be the industry leader.

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sborock

sborock

Posted
Posted

I am friends with Susan, at the time, I was just using an example that went to far. I have talked with Susan at length about pressing and, as I have always stated, she feels the same as I do. If done correctly, it is near impossible to spot. But, hey, let's just guess and let it become a big game of "Pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey"

 

It is also possible to think a book has been pressed when it has not. Big problem.

 

I am not a purist "hater" just think it is emotional stance as well as a bit silly. My opinion BTW not speaking for anyone else.

 

Also:

Bottom line, CGC doesn't care about pressing. True. My understanding is CGC wouldn't notate a label "pressed" if the submittor swore to it. Also true, but let's call it like reality is, anybody can say anything about a book. CGC is not here for any other reason but to do the job that they tell you the are doing. grading without knowing what the owner of the book thinks/knows with the expection of pedigrees It's a non-issue as far as they're concerned. If they did care they could start by putting a CGC-witness in Matt's workshop, like they do with Sig books. Who pays for this? CGC doe not pay SS witnesses. Are you going top pay for this service? Maybe CGC should raise their prices again to work this out? And why would Matt or any of the other 50+ pressers let someone watch and learn the trade? Customer service for those that want those books, and ones who don't. If they cared. They care, but not about the things you want them to care about. They have helped this hobby grow in leaps ands bounds, given you this place to voice your opinions, which IMHO, is great for our hobby.

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Davenport

Davenport

Posted
Posted

 

C'mon Nick, this isn't a fair argument. First of all I cannot think of one person that has ever had a bad thing to say about Susan, or the work she performs.

 

C'mon Ze, you know better. (tsk) Susan's rep got spitballed by the head purist-hater himself, on more than one occasion. For instance: CLICK

 

And secondly if you ask Susan she would tell you that it is not possible to detect pressing reliably because so many unknown factors are at play.

When pressing detection comes up there always has to be a caveat, like "reliably" or "consistently", to explain away CGC's lack of detection efforts. It's bull. CGC goes after trimming, even though it's not 100% consistent or 100% reliable. They care, so they try.

 

Bottom line, CGC doesn't care about pressing. My understanding is CGC wouldn't notate a label "pressed" if the submittor swore to it. It's a non-issue as far as they're concerned. If they did care they could start by putting a CGC-witness in Matt's workshop, like they do with Sig books. Customer service for those that want those books, and ones who don't. If they cared.

 

Actually I do know better Dav, better then most so stop waving your finger at me.

 

And there is a caveat because a book can appear pressed even if it was not intentionally pressed, a trimmed book cannot.

 

You want CGC to label it if they spot it, take it up with them.

 

Yeah, that wagging-finger emoticon can seem very condesending. Bad choice on my part. :blush:

 

Public apology given.

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Davenport

Davenport

Posted
Posted

 

It is also possible to think a book has been pressed when it has not. Big problem.

 

I am not a purist "hater" just think it is emotional stance as well as a bit silly. My opinion BTW not speaking for anyone else.

 

Speaking only for myself I can say there is nothing emotional about my stance toward altered books. For me it's factual . If a book is not fully original, it's not. (shrug) Blue labels don't change reality, they can confirm it or alter the perception of it.

 

So it's also possible to think a book is fully original when it is not. Certification labels are powerful that way.

 

 

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BRB-migration

BRB-migration

Posted
Posted

In honor of Steve, instead of thinking of something myself, I shall post lyrics:

 

Who are you to wave your finger?

Ya' must have been out your head.

Eye hole deep in muddy waters.

You practically raised the dead.

 

Rob the grave, to snow the cradle.

Then burn the evidence down.

Soapbox, house of cards, and glass,

So don't go tossin' your stones around.

 

You must have been high.

You must have been high.

You must have been.

 

Foot in mouth, and head up individual_without_enough_empathy.

Whatcha talkin' 'bout?

Difficult to dance 'round this one

'Til you pull it out, boy!

 

You must have been, so high.

You must have been, so high.

 

Steal, borrow, refer, save your shady inference.

Kangaroo done hung the juror with the innocent.

 

Now you're weeping shades of cozened indigo

Got lemon juice up in your... EYE!

 

When you pissed all over my black kettle

You must have been HIGH, HIGH

You must have been HIGH, HIGH

 

Who are you to wave your finger?

So full of it.

Eyeballs deep in muddy waters

Fuggin' hypocrite.

 

Liar, lawyer, mirror, show me.

What's the difference?

 

Kangaroo done hung the guilty with the innocent.

 

NOW!

You'll weep or, change the cozened indigo.

Got lemon juice up in your high eye.

When you pissed all over my black kettle

You musta been!

 

So who are you to wave your finger?

Who are you to wave your fatty fingers at me?

You must, have been, out your, mind!

 

Weepin' shades of indigo

She'd without a reason

Weepin' shades of indigo

 

Liar, lawyer,

Mirror for ya,

What's the difference?

Kangaroo be stoned

He's guilty as the government

 

NOW!

Will you weep or, change the cozened indigo

Got lemon juice up in your, EYE!

EYE!

 

Now when you pissed all over my black kettle.

You musta been HIGH, HIGH, HIGH, HIGH.

Eyeballs deep in muddy waters

Your balls deep in muddy waters.

Ganja, please, you must have been out your MIND!

 

Tool

The Pot

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BRB-migration

BRB-migration

Posted
Posted

Yeah. Maynard is truly a poet.

 

Someone told me once

that there's a right and wrong,

and punishment would come to those

who dare to cross the line.

 

But it must not be true

for jerk-offs just just like you.

Maybe it takes longer to catch a total individual_without_enough_empathy,

but I'm tired of waiting.

 

Someone told me once

that there's a right and wrong,

punishment would come to those

who dare to cross the line.

 

But it must not be true

for jerk-offs just just like you.

 

Maybe it's just wildly_fanciful_statement and I should play GOD,

and shoot you myself.

Because I'm tired of waiting.

 

Consequences dictate

our course of action

and it doesn't matter what's right.

It's only wrong if you get caught.

If consequences dictate

my course of action

I should play GOD

and shoot you myself.

I'm very tired of waiting.

 

 

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comicdonna

comicdonna

Posted
Posted
Speaking only for myself I can say there is nothing emotional about my stance toward altered books. For me it's factual . If a book is not fully original, it's not. (shrug) Blue labels don't change reality, they can confirm it or alter the perception of it.

 

So it's also possible to think a book is fully original when it is not. Certification labels are powerful that way.

 

Great post! :applause:
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sborock

sborock

Posted
Posted
Speaking only for myself I can say there is nothing emotional about my stance toward altered books. For me it's factual . If a book is not fully original, it's not. (shrug) Blue labels don't change reality, they can confirm it or alter the perception of it.

 

So it's also possible to think a book is fully original when it is not. Certification labels are powerful that way.

 

Great post! :applause:

 

BTW.......If you read my post, at no time while I was talking about my belief and feelings about pressing, not CGC, did I ever mention or imply labels or their colors.

 

Reality is what it is no matter if the book is in a slab or not.

 

And, yes, I still believe it is an emotional stance, that's why people get so work up about it. ;)

 

 

 

 

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comicdonna

comicdonna

Posted
Posted
Speaking only for myself I can say there is nothing emotional about my stance toward altered books. For me it's factual . If a book is not fully original, it's not. (shrug) Blue labels don't change reality, they can confirm it or alter the perception of it.

 

So it's also possible to think a book is fully original when it is not. Certification labels are powerful that way.

 

Great post! :applause:

 

BTW.......If you read my post, at no time while I was talking about my belief and feelings about pressing, not CGC, did I ever mention or imply labels or their colors.

 

Reality is what it is no matter if the book is in a slab or not.

 

And, yes, I still believe it is an emotional stance, that's why people get so work up about it. ;)

 

 

 

To me, I am looking for complete originality in a book. You can refer to it as an emotional stance but, when I purchase a book, I am looking for one from the past that has not been altered to enhance it in any way. I want something that is truly original. There are many who don't care if a book has been pressed or not. I am fine with that. The only thing that bothers me is that when someone sells a pressed book without disclosure, it makes it much harder for me to find a copy that has not been altered.
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