Where Do White Mountain FF's Hide?

[Crazy Canuck]

Just curious how many WM FF's exist in the collecting world. I am also curious how many are slabbed and how many exist in their raw form still. Other than the FF's posted in Dougs vault and the odd copy in collector society collections there seems to be very few copies. I'm assuming that most are hiding in personal collections or are in obscured CS collections. Would love to see the covers!

[VintageComics]

cgcworld was collecting every superhero White Mountain. I believe between him and Bob Storms ( www.highgradecomics.com ) you should be able to get a lead on some of them.

[Crazy Canuck]

I purchased all that remained of the WM FF's from Bob. Unfortunately, I only got 3 of the 10 copies or so that cgc world sold to Bob. So my search and quest continues.

[fantastic_four]

There are multiple copies of a lot of the issues. I've got a White Mountain FF Annual 1 CGC 9.0.

[jimjum12]

Not sure who ended up with the first issue...but I recall Steve Fischler of Metro mentioning that he originally won the lot of # 2 up in the Sotheby's auction in the early 90's. He may be able to point you in the right direction. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[fantastic_four]

Not sure who ended up with the first issue

 

Assuming there's only one copy, it was on the market a few times in 2001/2002. It went unsold at a Manning auction and then also unsold on ebay at $35K. Bob Storms ended up with it then sold it privately to someone when he unloaded his collection in 2003. It was a CGC 9.2 last time I saw it.

[namisgr]

The White Mountain copies of FFs 2,5,7, and 12 are in Doug Schmell's possession, and are on sale in the Pedigree Comics vault.

[Guardian Comics]

You should have just PMed me as I don't go into the Silver Forum much anymore.

 

#1 9.2

2 9.4

5 9.4

7 9.4

10 9.2

11 9.4

12 9.4

13 9.2

15 9.2

16 9.0

22 9.4

24 9.6

26 9.4

28 9.4

29 9.4

30 9.0

32 9.6

34 9.4

35 9.6

36 9.4

37 9.2

38 9.4

41 9.4

45 9.4

46 9.6

50 9.2

53 9.0

55 9.2

59 9.6

66, 67, 68, 71 all 9.4

75 8.0

77 9.2

 

I also had #25 and #31 raw, both were VFish

 

Hope this helps,

 

Jim

[VintageComics]

Jim, I've noticed that some WM books have some darker paper quality than others. Any idea why?

 

R.

 

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Jim,

 

FF 25 graded as a 7.5 & FF 31 as an 8.0. Is there an actual graded copy of FF #35 (9.6) or is that a raw grade estimate?

 

 

[Guardian Comics]

All the grades I listed are CGC grades.

 

Roy: WM's do differ a lot between W, OW-W and even OW but of all the graded WM's only 4 of them ever graded C-OW.

 

A reason for this maybe, because it is the earliest Silver Age collection ever deemed to be given "pedigree status", with the first books starting to make an appearance in 1984. It could have been as a result of the 2nd owners who are resulting in the varying page qualities and their storage methods. Purely speculation or an educated guess, if you will

 

Jim

[VintageComics]

(thumbs u

 

Reason I asked is because I now own the JIM #90 and 91 but other copies I saw were noticeably different. The PQ was similar inside but there seemed to be a different in cover stock aging. Could just be a random thing.

 

R.

 

[fantastic_four]

Could just be a random thing.

 

I'm pretty sure it is random. Has any pedigree collection ever had completely uniform page quality? Some are predominantly white-paged, and White Mountain is one of those like that, but even it isn't 100% white. Vancouver was discovered since CGC started and went right from their original box to CGC. Most were white, but some were offwhite. A ton of the Pacific Coasts went fairly fast to CGC, yet many are offwhite. Maybe it's where they are in stacks, maybe it's how much crapola got mixed in with the wood pulp before they were even printed...who knows. From our perspective on the aftermarket, it's all random.

 

Curator may be the most white-paged one I've seen, but it's easy to see why--they were ALL stored in what is probably the absolute best environment of any pedigree collection in history. Are there ANY offwhiters in Curator?

[Crazy Canuck]

Jim,

 

Are you aware of WM duplicates of marvel superheroe copies. My concern is that I just purchased a raw FF 35 WM (?9.2), but you stated there already is a graded FF 35 9.6. I recently purchased the FF 16 9.0 CGC WM copy, but comicconnect sold a FF 16 WM raw copy in January 2008. Interestingly, the copy sold at comicconnect is not the same as mine!

[fantastic_four]

I've seen two CGC copies of Annual #1 with the WM designation -- mine at 9.0, and another at either 9.2 or 9.4. I've always heard there were multiples of random issues of multiple titles in WM.

[fantastic_four]

Oh yea, and when I bought the Annual 1 at a 2002 MastroNet auction where the 9.4 copies of #2 and #5 also sold to Mark Wilson, which then ended up in Doug Schmell's hands, the auction scan didn't have the White Mountain designation on the label yet the auction text claimed they were from the pedigree. I contacted Mastro about it, and they said they had to send a bunch of WM books back to CGC because they originally declined to put the designation on the books because they were duplicates. That sounded fishy to me, but then I noticed they had e-mailed me a scan of the new slab which did have the designation, so I went ahead and bid anyway. I saw another WM copy of the same book a year or two later.

 

That sounded to me as if CGC also was originally confused, or perhaps even skeptical, about the multiple copies in the collection.

[Crazy Canuck]

If I submit my raw copy, do I need to remind them that there are duplicates or are CGC already aware of this scenario?

[jimjum12]

If I submit my raw copy, do I need to remind them that there are duplicates or are CGC already aware of this scenario?

 

With ped's ,CGC usually requires some type of provenance or chain of ownership to verify it's authenticity. If it was purchased from a reputable dealer that they trust, that person's word may be enough. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

[Guardian Comics]

There are definitely duplicate copies, that appear sporadically throughout the entire run. Yes FF #16 is one of them, so is TTA #40, X-Men #5.

 

CGC is aware of this scenario as both copies of the TTA #40 and X-Men #5 have been graded, and are not crack/resubs.

 

Jim

[DiceX]

All the grades I listed are CGC grades.

 

Roy: WM's do differ a lot between W, OW-W and even OW but of all the graded WM's only 4 of them ever graded C-OW.

 

A reason for this maybe, because it is the earliest Silver Age collection ever deemed to be given "pedigree status", with the first books starting to make an appearance in 1984. It could have been as a result of the 2nd owners who are resulting in the varying page qualities and their storage methods. Purely speculation or an educated guess, if you will

 

Jim

 

FWIW, I've seen a fresh OO collection where books were stored for 40 years and random books in the runs would be solid OW, while the rest of the run had bone white pages. It was puzzling to say the least.