PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Park]

Putting Menace on the HoS list pretty much discredits the validity of the entire list.

Let's just do away with the regular PL and put everyone in the HoS.

 

 

Isn't the PL already a joke? When someone can be on that list multiple times and all it takes to get off is money or books, I can't take it seriously.

 

Not everything is black and white.

 

The PL isn't black and white either. It doesn't stop anyone from buying or selling. I look at it as a tool to help complete a transaction or a warning to other buyers or sellers or maybe even a way to shame someone into doing the right thing.

 

I would look less at the probation list and the process itself as a failure and more at the people that allow sellers or buyers to continue doing unethical, shady things as the failure. The PL list can be a tool to call out these people but not buying/selling from/to them in the first place is the better answer.

 

 

If you bought or sold on here I would take this more seriously

 

I do buy a little bit but it is a valid point.

 

At the same time, someone that doesn't utilize this place for buying and selling consistently can bring a different perspective.

 

You're like a living, breathing Kaizen

 

 

It totally doesn't mean what I was guessing.

[comix4fun]

Putting Menace on the HoS list pretty much discredits the validity of the entire list.

Let's just do away with the regular PL and put everyone in the HoS.

 

 

Isn't the PL already a joke? When someone can be on that list multiple times and all it takes to get off is money or books, I can't take it seriously.

 

Not everything is black and white.

 

The PL isn't black and white either. It doesn't stop anyone from buying or selling. I look at it as a tool to help complete a transaction or a warning to other buyers or sellers or maybe even a way to shame someone into doing the right thing.

 

I would look less at the probation list and the process itself as a failure and more at the people that allow sellers or buyers to continue doing unethical, shady things as the failure. The PL list can be a tool to call out these people but not buying/selling from/to them in the first place is the better answer.

 

 

If you bought or sold on here I would take this more seriously

 

I do buy a little bit but it is a valid point.

 

At the same time, someone that doesn't utilize this place for buying and selling consistently can bring a different perspective.

 

You're like a living, breathing Kaizen

 

 

It totally doesn't mean what I was guessing.

 

He was the bad guy in "The Usual Suspects", right?

[Logan510]

Putting Menace on the HoS list pretty much discredits the validity of the entire list.

Let's just do away with the regular PL and put everyone in the HoS.

 

 

Isn't the PL already a joke? When someone can be on that list multiple times and all it takes to get off is money or books, I can't take it seriously.

 

Not everything is black and white.

 

The PL isn't black and white either. It doesn't stop anyone from buying or selling. I look at it as a tool to help complete a transaction or a warning to other buyers or sellers or maybe even a way to shame someone into doing the right thing.

 

I would look less at the probation list and the process itself as a failure and more at the people that allow sellers or buyers to continue doing unethical, shady things as the failure. The PL list can be a tool to call out these people but not buying/selling from/to them in the first place is the better answer.

 

 

If you bought or sold on here I would take this more seriously

 

I do buy a little bit but it is a valid point.

 

At the same time, someone that doesn't utilize this place for buying and selling consistently can bring a different perspective.

 

You're like a living, breathing Kaizen

 

 

It totally doesn't mean what I was guessing.

 

I bet you thought I was being dooshy

[Bosco685]

HOS does for me. PL not so much.

 

At first I thought it was the other way around, and more a concern with how quickly folks lean on the HOS.

 

So, how to make the PL process better?

 

• More discussion before a decision is made?
  
• More than one person having to recommend a member to the PL?
  
• Longer resolution times so as to allow for a final fix to occur?
  

 

What is it actually that is missing (or a series of things) that some have a strong heartache with the PL or HOS?

[Matthew42383]

Yeah, he fell through on the promise he made to Mark Zaid. I'm just waiting on the new time limit (imposed by jaybuck I think it was) to nominate BLBcomics for the hall of shame again. Blbcomics posted on Nov. 25th that he'll get them in the mail when he's ready and no amount of pressure will speed that up. Christmas was mentioned but he won't keep to that one either. In the same post he called me a piece of in a half dozen different ways with his cheerleader Mmheady supporting him. It's always a delaying tactic. Blb still won't answer my phone calls or emails. He is actively ignoring me. He's not about to return the money. He doesn't have all the pulps anymore as he sold several on ebay. I really don't know what the wait is for but I'd rather go through the hoops here at collectors the right way, then have this issue laid to rest so right now it's just a waiting game until I'm eliglble to nominate him. Expect a nomination again on Xmas Eve if I can't get one in before then. - Matthew

[N/A]

I don't know that there is a fix for me. I offer an unconditional return and I see the inclusion on non-paying boardies as a possible conflict

[jaybuck43]

Hey Matthew42383 I am actually working on putting together a post for handling blbcomics HoS nomination, that is entirely separate from you nominating him to the Probation List. (The difference between the PL and the HoS is that the PL just requires the proof of an infraction and a lack of a defense by the accused to be added, no vote or agreement need happen, with the HoS a majority vote has to be had over 2 weeks that sides with adding him to the list, a much harder row to hoe)

 

The 30 day/Christmas time period that I mentioned in a previous post to you is to clear up a bit of an issue that had popped up with your nomination/post. At the time of your original deal with BLB you were not a member of the boards. The rules state that the transaction has to be between boardies (though it does not have to occur on or through the boards).

 

When he came on (I think it was on the 23rd have to check my notes) and said that he would have the books shipped to you by christmas, that again started the 30 day clock, which would expire on Christmas (and this time the deal would be between bordies, allowing you to nominate)

 

However you are saying he sold some of the books. if you can prove (either through communications through him or some kind of identification) that he no longer has the books you bought then you would qualify to immediately nominate him for the PL. Let us know!

[sacentaur]

Yeah, he fell through on the promise he made to Mark Zaid. I'm just waiting on the new time limit (imposed by jaybuck I think it was) to nominate BLBcomics for the hall of shame again. Blbcomics posted on Nov. 25th that he'll get them in the mail when he's ready and no amount of pressure will speed that up. Christmas was mentioned but he won't keep to that one either. In the same post he called me a piece of in a half dozen different ways with his cheerleader Mmheady supporting him. It's always a delaying tactic. Blb still won't answer my phone calls or emails. He is actively ignoring me. He's not about to return the money. He doesn't have all the pulps anymore as he sold several on ebay. I really don't know what the wait is for but I'd rather go through the hoops here at collectors the right way, then have this issue laid to rest so right now it's just a waiting game until I'm eliglble to nominate him. Expect a nomination again on Xmas Eve if I can't get one in before then. - Matthew

 

Thanks for the update Matthew.

 

One thing I don't understand is why you didn't receive an immediate refund from our resident hobby legend after his sham was exposed?

 

It's a rhetorical question (I already know the answer), but since he's not communicating with and is ignoring you, just thought I'd throw that out there because I think it's unconscionable what you've had to endure, considering the totality of the circumstances.

 

[Matthew42383]

I can't prove he sold the pulps jaybuck. They were on ebay. Then they were sold. (I am sure they were the some of the same ones, probably 8 of the 10 most expensive pulps worth about 100 each of the 341 he sold to me at 3600 were among the ones sold) Then there was positive feedback left for some of them. And then 90 days after the transactions all record of them was deleted by ebay. I know it's true. I can just no longer prove it's true that he doesn't have them all.

 

Here's 6 more of them that I bought from him that he still has up for sale. Even put them on a discount sale to try to move them since last he posted late November on collectors society...

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_osacat=0&_ssn=blbcomics&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xpulp&_nkw=pulp&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

And im not interested in putting the guy on the probation list. The time for half measures is decades past due. I want him in the hall. And a vote taken on it when I'm eligible to call for it. If I'm completely high on something, people will vote no, but judging from the stories, this has been decades a-coming. Just haven't had a loudmouth like me pissed off enough until this point to put him there.

 

Regardless of what this turd has said on here, or Mitch on his behalf, he's just trying to delay more to make this issue go away so everyone forgets about it and he can "get away with it".

 

He needs to be in the Hall in the same way that Hitler needed a bullet, and Gandhi should have got a Nobel.

[TheMightyJohn]

Since it 14 pages back

 

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

[N/A]

Silliness

[miraclemet]

I can't prove he sold the pulps jaybuck. They were on ebay. Then they were sold. (I am sure they were the some of the same ones, probably 8 of the 10 most expensive pulps worth about 100 each of the 341 he sold to me at 3600 were among the ones sold) Then there was positive feedback left for some of them. And then 90 days after the transactions all record of them was deleted by ebay. I know it's true. I can just no longer prove it's true that he doesn't have them all.

 

Here's 6 more of them that I bought from him that he still has up for sale. Even put them on a discount sale to try to move them since last he posted late November on collectors society...

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_osacat=0&_ssn=blbcomics&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xpulp&_nkw=pulp&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

And im not interested in putting the guy on the probation list. The time for half measures is decades past due. I want him in the hall. And a vote taken on it when I'm eligible to call for it. If I'm completely high on something, people will vote no, but judging from the stories, this has been decades a-coming. Just haven't had a loudmouth like me pissed off enough until this point to put him there.

 

Regardless of what this turd has said on here, or Mitch on his behalf, he's just trying to delay more to make this issue go away so everyone forgets about it and he can "get away with it".

 

He needs to be in the Hall in the same way that Hitler needed a bullet, and Gandhi should have got a Nobel.

 

Was there ever a conversation between you and Bob about what sort of credit you would be getting back for any of the 341 that he couldn't deliver on (assumedly cause he sold them on eBay)?

 

Come Christmas, when the 341 gets shipped and it arrives some point after that, you will see that he only delivers on say 320 of the 341, and then the quesiton will be about reimbursement of those books, which will be about valuation. Did you have a pulp by pulp break down of value discussed that broke down the cost of the "lot"?

[Matthew42383]

He won't admit he's sold them miracle. And he's refused to answer any attempts of mine to contact him for about 2.5 months now. And come christmas, I give it 100 to 1 odds that I don't recieve anything. The question isn't what sort of compensation I'll recieve for the ones he's sold. The question is whether I can get him on the hall of shame list or not for this obvious fraud on his part.

 

As for pulps of value, there were about 10 worth 100 each, 20 or so worth 50 each, 100 or so worth 15-25 each, and a little over 200ish worth 10 or so each (this last group was mostly argosys; all these dollar value numbers are my estimates, his were higher). Dont bother trying to add the numbers up. Youll come up with a number higher then 3600. I got a decent deal since I bought his entiring remaining pulp inventory at once. He valued the pulps at something around 7200 when he came up with the list (hence my offer at 3600). I'd think the fact that he still has some of the pulps for sale on ebay and has put them up on discount sales since his Nov. 25 post has got to be evidence enough he's screwing me, if you don't have enough already.

 

I'd really just prefer my money back. He can't complete the deal any more. (Can't mail what you don't have). But he says he's broke. The turd could always mail everything he does have from the list and throw in a few golden age comics of equivalent value to make up for the stuff he's sold. But at this point I have no doubt he's decided to just keep the money and the items. He's hardly hiding it anymore.

[cloudofwit]

I can't prove he sold the pulps jaybuck. They were on ebay. Then they were sold. (I am sure they were the some of the same ones, probably 8 of the 10 most expensive pulps worth about 100 each of the 341 he sold to me at 3600 were among the ones sold) Then there was positive feedback left for some of them. And then 90 days after the transactions all record of them was deleted by ebay. I know it's true. I can just no longer prove it's true that he doesn't have them all.

 

Here's 6 more of them that I bought from him that he still has up for sale. Even put them on a discount sale to try to move them since last he posted late November on collectors society...

 

http://www.ebay.com/sch/m.html?_odkw=&_ipg=50&_sop=12&_osacat=0&_ssn=blbcomics&_trksid=p2046732.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.Xpulp&_nkw=pulp&_sacat=0&_from=R40

 

And im not interested in putting the guy on the probation list. The time for half measures is decades past due. I want him in the hall. And a vote taken on it when I'm eligible to call for it. If I'm completely high on something, people will vote no, but judging from the stories, this has been decades a-coming. Just haven't had a loudmouth like me pissed off enough until this point to put him there.

 

Regardless of what this turd has said on here, or Mitch on his behalf, he's just trying to delay more to make this issue go away so everyone forgets about it and he can "get away with it".

 

He needs to be in the Hall in the same way that Hitler needed a bullet, and Gandhi should have got a Nobel.

 

Jesus.

 

This technicality that is keeping "hope" alive until the eve of Christmas seems over-the-top. It's wonderful we have rules here and a structure to things even though our hosts have (arguably wisely) put the burden on us. But sometimes the pitchforks have some reason to them and the rules need to be overturned. Metaphorically speaking, if the pitchforks were legitimate picket signs that would ultimately cause the overturning of a said rule or law(s), then let it be written, let it be so, as Poverty Row might say. Or the Bible.

 

I say let us praise Beerbong with our words about his 40 years of wandering in the comic book wilderness and giving us pearls of wisdom. But let us also consider academia and one of its terms--"cognitive dissonance"--and say that we can toss him in the Hall of Shame in this lil' ol' corner of the Internet world and be okay with it. (This is not to lamely put spirituality & academia against one another.) He's a sometimes huckster. He's a sometimes formidable scammer with street cred via Overstreet articles. I'm thinking he contributed to the legendary fanzine "Comic Book Marketplace". Maybe not. But, meanwhile, Matthew could use 3K. Gee, I know I could use 3K. That's a decent percentage of my annual income for goodness sake (TMI, brother, TMI! )

 

Those of us who reside in that CGC Boards Hall of Shame--and those of us who don't--can speak of the good ol' days, but we can also chat about how there should be societal foots up the that we should embrace because of, well, karma (from one worldview) or we "reap what we sow" (from another worldview). And I'm sure there are more than 2 perspectives. Let it be said, Amen.

 

May Mitch give his old buddy some tough love and kick his while singing his praises. I've already sensed that this has happened in some of the King's writings. It's a matter of percentages, I guess. If it was the U.S. political system, I'm thinking a 2/3 vote would easily be in order.

Edited December 8, 2013 by cloudofwit

[comix4fun]

He won't admit he's sold them miracle. And he's refused to answer any attempts of mine to contact him for about 2.5 months now. And come christmas, I give it 100 to 1 odds that I don't recieve anything. The question isn't what sort of compensation I'll recieve for the ones he's sold. The question is whether I can get him on the hall of shame list or not for this obvious fraud on his part.

 

As for pulps of value, there were about 10 worth 100 each, 20 or so worth 50 each, 100 or so worth 15-25 each, and a little over 200ish worth 10 or so each (this last group was mostly argosys; all these dollar value numbers are my estimates, his were higher). Dont bother trying to add the numbers up. Youll come up with a number higher then 3600. I got a decent deal since I bought his entiring remaining pulp inventory at once. He valued the pulps at something around 7200 when he came up with the list (hence my offer at 3600). I'd think the fact that he still has some of the pulps for sale on ebay and has put them up on discount sales since his Nov. 25 post has got to be evidence enough he's screwing me, if you don't have enough already.

 

I'd really just prefer my money back. He can't complete the deal any more. (Can't mail what you don't have). But he says he's broke. The turd could always mail everything he does have from the list and throw in a few golden age comics of equivalent value to make up for the stuff he's sold. But at this point I have no doubt he's decided to just keep the money and the items. He's hardly hiding it anymore.

 

 

 

He owes you every last pulp and he owes you every last dollar he sold those pulps for, if he sold them.

 

Whatever he has in his possession should come to you and the money he made, selling YOUR pulps, is yours too, every last penny...PLUS interest.

 

Anything less is allowing him to profit on his breach of your agreement and is actionable.

[jaybuck43]

Matthew, I would reverse those odds if I were you (you are saying there is a high chance you WILL get the pulps) Also please PM or e-mail me all of the correspondence you have with BLB, including order info, and the like (even unanswered/unresponded messages) This will be especially helpful for the HoS nomination.

 

Cloudofwhit, the reason I am "dragging my heels" with putting this together is because I am trying to make sure the nomination is as clear and concise as possible. Given his history, he will probably have numerous defenders coming to his defense, those who want to see him added to the HoS need those on the fence to vote in favor, hence the need for the detailed nomination.

[cloudofwit]

Matthew, I would reverse those odds if I were you (you are saying there is a high chance you WILL get the pulps) Also please PM or e-mail me all of the correspondence you have with BLB, including order info, and the like (even unanswered/unresponded messages) This will be especially helpful for the HoS nomination.

 

Cloudofwhit, the reason I am "dragging my heels" with putting this together is because I am trying to make sure the nomination is as clear and concise as possible. Given his history, he will probably have numerous defenders coming to his defense, those who want to see him added to the HoS need those on the fence to vote in favor, hence the need for the detailed nomination.

 

jaybuck43, you're one of the ones who is trying to understand this, track this, and get some sort of resolution to this. I wouldn't be able to hold up under the circumstances. More power to ya.

[miraclemet]

Matt he doesnt have to admit he sold them, if he doesnt deliver them, he could have used them for TP, all that matters is that part of your agreement wasnt fulfilled, so you are owed either a full refund (assuming you want to return the full order) or a partial refund for the value of the books that weren't delivered per the agreement.

 

It's not the PL/HOS rules that are keeping this transaction afloat. Matt came on here to the boards, started raising ruckus (rightfully so) about Bob not delivering, and the public shaming got Bob to set a target for completing the transaction by Christmas. So we give him the time to meet his own set target. He's measured his own rope. He doesnt deliver? He gets the hanging.

 

 

My only worry is that right now there's a benefit to Bob to get this order delivered by the Christmas target (he may consider this a way to "shut the boards up" and be back in good standing... I dont think either of these things actually happens, but HE may think so, and thus be more inclined to do his job).

 

Once he's on the HOS, and it gets communicated as such, he has no reason to actually keep progressing on Matt's transaction.

 

I'd say dragging heals at least until the 25th might increase the odds of the books being shipped. Starting up a new bonfire that's further fueled by all the other failings on his part will probably just get him to dig in his own heels and start to act even more punitive with his lack of delivery.

 

[note: Im 100% on Matt's side on this, Bob is 100% in the wrong, and has shown nothing but horrible business practices in this transaction. I dont care about Bob's position in comics history, for that matter, I dont care about Matt's position in comic history. Im just interested in the facts of the transaction]

 

[jaybuck43]

I just wanted to once again ask for anyone with information on BLBComics to PLEASE PM me. I have spoken with several bordies and would like as much info as possible. This includes anyone that would like to speak to his defense as well. Please PM me and give me any info. If you want your information kept private I will respect that and keep it private. Thanks again everyone.

[Bio-Rupp]

For those who don't know a history on Robert Beerbohn...

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Beerbohm

 

The wiki piece doesn't showcase any of his ongoing questionable actions, but will let those who don't know who he is, have a little insight.

 

Beerbohn acting in this manner is such a slap in the face of fandom that it truly sickens me.