PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[troydivision1]

preface: I don't think Menace deserves HoS.

 

I do believe Menace needs time off from CGC SS.

(it seems this info will be passed on to the correct point person)

 

To me it reads like he has taken on a lot recently.

Too much to run his business correctly without asking for assistance.

This time off will allow him to examine and reevaluate his business.

 

[mschmidt]

 

That said, shouldn't HOS be reserved for the truly "worst of the worst"? Does Menace really represent that aspect of the hobby? I just can't say that he does... at least not yet.

 

I'm in the same place with this.

 

Likewise - I think a HOS nomination is complete overkill here.

[Sqeggs]

Rupp:

I posted this yesterday morning and I think it may have been lost in a deluge of other posts but would love to hear people's thoughts on these ideas because it sounds to me, based on menaces post that he should now be removed from the PL. I do need J Dubb to confirm receipt of his full refund.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7231556#Post7231556

 

I personally think your idea is great in theory Jaybuck... its been brought up in different forms before.

 

Dr. Balls and I had a similar idea months back that simply used the existing kudos thread and a simple green check for completed transactions that went off without a hitch... and a simple red check for completed transactions that occurred with problems.

 

We stated that a "completed" transaction as to pertaining to a agreement that had an end result in either the buyer getting what he/she ordered... or getting a refund.

 

It was left up to whoever read the kudos to privately PM the person who left the feedback and ask their opinion on how the transaction went.

 

All of this fully within the guidelines that CGC has put forth for a Kudos thread.

 

Your idea is just as good as any other... only problem is it adds another step of complexity that CGC just doesn't want to deal with concerning an area that we are supposed to self police.

 

A change I think we could make and I believe Arch might go along with if there was a consensus for it would be converting the kudos threads to feedback threads. Unfortunately, there is some very vocal opposition to doing anything that might inconvenience sellers.

 

I found it kind of ironic that one of the people who wanted to put Beerbohm in the HoS for an old off-board transaction is one of the most vocal people against any restrictions whatever on sellers -- no wait time to sell, no fb, nada. Seemed a tad inconsistent somehow ….

[Darrell F]

For how long have the Medina sketches been ready and waiting?

Here is what John (J Dub) was told by the artist himself

 

Hey John, how's it going. Yeah, I finished that group of sketch covers quite awhile ago. I've just been waiting for Jake to send me the paper work required for CGC to send the package back, & he's been dragging his feet on that like crazy. I've spoken to a couple of guys from this group, & I told them that if it looks the CGC part of all this is going to fall to the wayside, then I'll mail these pieces to you guys myself. If you asked for a Spidey w/ BG non-inked, then this is your piece. I actually posted on my wall a couple of months ago.

 

Pretty bad when the artist is even saying that you will not follow through

[Darrell F]

I've had a different artist tell me personally that he too had to wait a very long time for Menace to finish the administrative work to get sketches into the hands of customers months after the actual sketching was completed.

Medina has stated that he has been waiting for some time now to get the paper work from Jake. In the SS forum, Jake has taken to blaming the delay on CGC. According to him, a few people backed out so he has had to wait on approval to send in less than 10 sketches. All this approval takes is a call to Mike Balent or an email. Either way and he would have his reply the same day based on my past dealings with Mike. He is always willing to work with us to make sure nothing screws over the CGC collectors.

[comix4fun]

I have a feeling that Mike will be having a few complaints from other people involved come Monday.

 

Then perhaps it's time to go a level higher. If the coordinator isn't taking care of business, I'm wondering if his bosses would like to know that.

 

 

Mike Balent is one of the best people that CGC has. He also doesn't take any garbage from anyone when it comes to doing the right thing for people. I am sure the issues with Menace are being dealt with in the manner they deserve.

 

Let's focus our ire on the people that deserve and not the people working to resolve it.

[comix4fun]

His best move of all time was trying the pre-sell the entire print run of the Portland Nowhere Men variant. It was epic.

 

 

[comix4fun]

Yea I did not get an email. I thought I had sent him a replacement book but I guess not.

 

 

 

[crassus]

For how long have the Medina sketches been ready and waiting?

Here is what John (J Dub) was told by the artist himself

 

Hey John, how's it going. Yeah, I finished that group of sketch covers quite awhile ago. I've just been waiting for Jake to send me the paper work required for CGC to send the package back, & he's been dragging his feet on that like crazy. I've spoken to a couple of guys from this group, & I told them that if it looks the CGC part of all this is going to fall to the wayside, then I'll mail these pieces to you guys myself. If you asked for a Spidey w/ BG non-inked, then this is your piece. I actually posted on my wall a couple of months ago.

 

Pretty bad when the artist is even saying that you will not follow through

 

On this point, agreed. "Dragging his feet on that like crazy" certainly says terrible customer service, maybe even negligence of a kind, but do you believe that he has been dishonest in his dealings or with his clients?

 

I ask this because, speaking for myself, I associate HoS with more than just incompetence or poor service (which can be fixed as a PL case) but as having the additional element of dishonesty.

[HighRadArt]

Yes, he should have taken care of it sooner, but I've seen a few folks on the PL take longer and then be forgiven. One dealer even thumbed his nose at everyone. Even though everyone knew he was apologizing just to sell his books all was forgiven and he was removed.

 

Keep it fair and stick to the rules - if he made amends, he shouldn't be on the PL or the HoS.

 

[comix4fun]

For how long have the Medina sketches been ready and waiting?

Here is what John (J Dub) was told by the artist himself

 

Hey John, how's it going. Yeah, I finished that group of sketch covers quite awhile ago. I've just been waiting for Jake to send me the paper work required for CGC to send the package back, & he's been dragging his feet on that like crazy. I've spoken to a couple of guys from this group, & I told them that if it looks the CGC part of all this is going to fall to the wayside, then I'll mail these pieces to you guys myself. If you asked for a Spidey w/ BG non-inked, then this is your piece. I actually posted on my wall a couple of months ago.

 

Pretty bad when the artist is even saying that you will not follow through

 

On this point, agreed. "Dragging his feet on that like crazy" certainly says terrible customer service, maybe even negligence of a kind, but do you believe that he has been dishonest in his dealings or with his clients?

 

I ask this because, speaking for myself, I associate HoS with more than just incompetence or poor service (which can be fixed as a PL case) but as having the additional element of dishonesty.

 

 

It's, basically, a breach of fiduciary duty and trust. Almost everyone does their end. Customer pays, artist draws, but facilitator drops the ball.

 

It undermines the confidence people have in the system, mostly because of confusion over what it means to be a witness and what it means to be a facilitator and how (unfairly) many people in the program may get painted with the same broad brush because of the lax, lazy, and unprofessional actions of a few.

 

Regardless of how hard people worked during convention season, or how many weeks they traveled, or how they need a break, it is not acceptable to not follow through every opp. and every task to full completion with diligent effort. If someone needs to be inconvenienced or expend extra effort it is the facilitator who took on that responsibility willingly and intentionally. The customer is the last person who should bear that burden.

 

So, for the future, this is something CGC I am sure is taking into account when considering which facilitators will and will not get approved for opportunities that require the facilitator to act independently and on their own time frame.

[MetalPSI]

For how long have the Medina sketches been ready and waiting?

Here is what John (J Dub) was told by the artist himself

 

Hey John, how's it going. Yeah, I finished that group of sketch covers quite awhile ago. I've just been waiting for Jake to send me the paper work required for CGC to send the package back, & he's been dragging his feet on that like crazy. I've spoken to a couple of guys from this group, & I told them that if it looks the CGC part of all this is going to fall to the wayside, then I'll mail these pieces to you guys myself. If you asked for a Spidey w/ BG non-inked, then this is your piece. I actually posted on my wall a couple of months ago.

 

Pretty bad when the artist is even saying that you will not follow through

 

On this point, agreed. "Dragging his feet on that like crazy" certainly says terrible customer service, maybe even negligence of a kind, but do you believe that he has been dishonest in his dealings or with his clients?

 

I ask this because, speaking for myself, I associate HoS with more than just incompetence or poor service (which can be fixed as a PL case) but as having the additional element of dishonesty.

 

IMO poor service or incompetence is the same as ignorance of the law. It's no excuse.

[N/A]

His best move of all time was trying the pre-sell the entire print run of the Portland Nowhere Men variant. It was epic.

 

In that case it took two to tango.

[N/A]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

[N/A]

30 votes so far, 80% for H.O.S. inclusion, 20% against.

 

 

Which is sad if the only 2 issues are the non-refund (now refunded) and one mismanaged sketch opp.

 

The Probation list started to become a joke and now the HOS?

[N/A]

Let's all just vote for HOS and be done with it. The dude had a rep long before this. In all the times he has screwed over buyers he still has yet to learn or improve his dealings. We don;t need people like him on here especially since he is a facilitator and chooses to handle business with us this way.

 

I realize that for those involved this is self-evident, but for the rest of us who also feel a responsibility to participate and vote, some summary of his dealings is necessary to demonstrate a clear pattern of abuses and justify HoS. I'm assuming this is about something more than poor customer service.

 

 

My understanding is that Menace is a facilitator who has been authorized to be a witness for CGC. While not an employee of CGC he does enjoy certain benefits, including the ability to witness sketches and signatures and then submit them for Yellow Label. This can be a very lucrative business and it seems that several boardies are upset that he continues to maintain this status granted by CGC even though there are numerous complaints about him.

 

Facilitators and witnesses are two different things. Witnesses are either CGC Employees or individuals under contract with CGC to witness for a specific event (CAWs). Facilitators act as liaisons between s customers and CGC to facilitate the SS process. They are subject to a code of conduct.

 

Has Menace broken this code?

 

But it says the book was a mislabel and the top sticker said 9.8 and the label said 9.6?

 

Is the assumption that he just put a 9.8 sticker on top or is the general thought it was an accident by CGC and was in fact a 9.8?

 

 

 

 

Don't forget, he screwed this buyer a second way also...

 

 

Please add Menace to the probation thread. It has been 72 hrs with no response to my new pm I created in regards to my Young SS 9.8.

 

I contacted Medina on Facebook. All the sketches are finished for the opp. Jake has not gotten in touch with him on how to send them to CGC. So I am only requesting probation thread for my Young SS book. Hopefully, the Medina stuff will be resolved soon.

 

In this instance, an artist has completed sketches, and has been waiting for Menace to contact him to be able to send the books to CGC. Seems like Menace doesn't want to respond to anybody either via PM or e-mail.

 

Yep, he's a gem all right.

 

He is NOT doing the job he is supposed to be doing. You cannot run a business offering a service, take people's money, then not do it.

 

This is Probation worthy with a chance to correct. Not HOS

[comix4fun]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

 

 

I think it's because it's two issues that involve several customers. So it becomes many issues.

 

I do believe this is an issue where CGC should handle their administration of the SS program as it pertains to these types of problems and the PL and HOS list should be only used for specific instances that are not rectified.

 

If the Medina books aren't done in a specific time frame then it would be PL list worthy, with the goal to get the people their books.

 

The long term solution to situations like this one would be for the program to police who is allowed and not allowed to facilitate based on track record.

[Darrell F]

The long term solution to situations like this one would be for the program to police who is allowed and not allowed to facilitate based on track record.

(thumbs u

[N/A]

 

That said, shouldn't HOS be reserved for the truly "worst of the worst"? Does Menace really represent that aspect of the hobby? I just can't say that he does... at least not yet.

 

I'm in the same place with this.

 

Likewise - I think a HOS nomination is complete overkill here.

 

[MetalPSI]

The long term solution to situations like this one would be for the program to police who is allowed and not allowed to facilitate based on track record.

(thumbs u

 

(thumbs u