PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Sqeggs]

So what would be the difference if he bought it, then decided he wasn't happy and returned it?? Most sellers here have a return policy.

 

Interesting point. If the deal had gone through, he had received the book, noticed the stain, ordered the grading notes to confirm that it was a stain, and then asked to return the book, then what? Seems like there is some ambiguity here particularly if the seller indicated in the thread that he didn't think there was a stain.

[Logan510]

So what would be the difference if he bought it, then decided he wasn't happy and returned it?? Most sellers here have a return policy.

 

 

That's what I'm thinking. I understand the seller not being happy about the deal falling through. But if the only way to make him "whole" is for the buyer to pay for a book he doesn't want...that doesn't seem fair either.

[Spider-Dan]

So what would be the difference if he bought it, then decided he wasn't happy and returned it?? Most sellers here have a return policy.

 

Lets not sidetrack the thread. This didn't happen.

[seanfingh]

[DR.X]

So what would be the difference if he bought it, then decided he wasn't happy and returned it?? Most sellers here have a return policy.

 

Interesting point. If the deal had gone through, he had received the book, noticed the stain, ordered the grading notes to confirm that it was a stain, and then asked to return the book, then what? Seems like there is some ambiguity here particularly if the seller indicated in the thread that he didn't think there was a stain.

 

If you submitted the book raw, which I assume you did, why did you tell him something different when he asked about the stain? I mean if you sent the book in I'm sure you looked it over with a fine tooth comb right.

[Spider-Dan]

So what would be the difference if he bought it, then decided he wasn't happy and returned it?? Most sellers here have a return policy.

 

Interesting point. If the deal had gone through, he had received the book, noticed the stain, ordered the grading notes to confirm that it was a stain, and then asked to return the book, then what? Seems like there is some ambiguity here particularly if the seller indicated in the thread that he didn't think there was a stain.

 

If you submitted the book raw, which I assume you did, why did you tell him something different when he asked about the stain? I mean if you sent the book in I'm sure you looked it over with a fine tooth comb right.

 

The stain is so light I didn't notice it. The day I got the book, I took some pics and sent it off. I barely handled it for fear of damaging it. Had I know, I absolutely would have stated that.

[Iceman399]

Jan 24 - I received a PM with Bob attempting to alter the deal by keeping one of his books and adding more cash. I denied that change

 

Jan 26 - I received a PM from Bob asking to alter the deal again. This time he wanted to keep both books and pay my asking price for the book. I said no to that too because the cash/trade deal was (GPA value wise) tilted in my favor as Bob pointed out in our original negotiations.

 

-- Bob said as a collector he was having a hard time letting go of one of his books and it was up to me me whether I "called him out on the Boards" Yet during the original negotiations, Bob stated that he was actually considering upgrading that book, and it would be easy to replace.

 

Jan 27 - I PM'd Bob and told him I would be willing to accept his cash offer, as it was obvious he wasn't going to trade his books.

 

The JIM arrives at my house. I PM's Bob asking where we stand. He said he would like to explore some other trade options. At that point I said we have 2 options...

1 - The original deal

2 - full asking price as he offered

 

Bob called and got grading notes. There is a stain on the bottom back corner which was asked about IN the original thread to which I responded "I think the bottom back corner is just an odd light". The book was at CGC, so I couldn't be 100% sure. Bob said due to that, "Many would consider this to be overgraded"

 

At that point Bob backed out

 

 

Looks like buyers remorse to me. He tried just about everything to change the concept of the deal...when that was denied he decided maybe there is something I can do with the graders notes. Got them and said small stain there is my ace.

 

Had the events timeline transpired differently it would be a different story.

[Spider-Dan]

Jan 24 - I received a PM with Bob attempting to alter the deal by keeping one of his books and adding more cash. I denied that change

 

Jan 26 - I received a PM from Bob asking to alter the deal again. This time he wanted to keep both books and pay my asking price for the book. I said no to that too because the cash/trade deal was (GPA value wise) tilted in my favor as Bob pointed out in our original negotiations.

 

-- Bob said as a collector he was having a hard time letting go of one of his books and it was up to me me whether I "called him out on the Boards" Yet during the original negotiations, Bob stated that he was actually considering upgrading that book, and it would be easy to replace.

 

Jan 27 - I PM'd Bob and told him I would be willing to accept his cash offer, as it was obvious he wasn't going to trade his books.

 

The JIM arrives at my house. I PM's Bob asking where we stand. He said he would like to explore some other trade options. At that point I said we have 2 options...

1 - The original deal

2 - full asking price as he offered

 

Bob called and got grading notes. There is a stain on the bottom back corner which was asked about IN the original thread to which I responded "I think the bottom back corner is just an odd light". The book was at CGC, so I couldn't be 100% sure. Bob said due to that, "Many would consider this to be overgraded"

 

At that point Bob backed out

 

 

Looks like buyers remorse to me. He tried just about everything to change the concept of the deal...when that was denied he decided maybe there is something I can do with the graders notes. Got them and said small stain there is my ace.

 

Had the events timeline transpired differently it would be a different story.

 

BINGO !

Edited January 28, 2014 by Spider-Dan

[slym2none]

At least this seller was looking at it like "buy the book, not the grade."

 

Too bad it came to be as it is.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Logan510]

Jan 24 - I received a PM with Bob attempting to alter the deal by keeping one of his books and adding more cash. I denied that change

 

Jan 26 - I received a PM from Bob asking to alter the deal again. This time he wanted to keep both books and pay my asking price for the book. I said no to that too because the cash/trade deal was (GPA value wise) tilted in my favor as Bob pointed out in our original negotiations.

 

-- Bob said as a collector he was having a hard time letting go of one of his books and it was up to me me whether I "called him out on the Boards" Yet during the original negotiations, Bob stated that he was actually considering upgrading that book, and it would be easy to replace.

 

Jan 27 - I PM'd Bob and told him I would be willing to accept his cash offer, as it was obvious he wasn't going to trade his books.

 

The JIM arrives at my house. I PM's Bob asking where we stand. He said he would like to explore some other trade options. At that point I said we have 2 options...

1 - The original deal

2 - full asking price as he offered

 

Bob called and got grading notes. There is a stain on the bottom back corner which was asked about IN the original thread to which I responded "I think the bottom back corner is just an odd light". The book was at CGC, so I couldn't be 100% sure. Bob said due to that, "Many would consider this to be overgraded"

 

At that point Bob backed out

 

 

Looks like buyers remorse to me. He tried just about everything to change the concept of the deal...when that was denied he decided maybe there is something I can do with the graders notes. Got them and said small stain there is my ace.

 

Had the events timeline transpired differently it would be a different story.

 

I don't mean to speak for him, but I know Bob personally and I can say with 100% certainty that he's not the kind of guy to weasel out of a deal. I know that he's a very picky collector and that something like that stain would definitely bother him.

 

For whatever that's worth.

[Iceman399]

Jan 24 - I received a PM with Bob attempting to alter the deal by keeping one of his books and adding more cash. I denied that change

 

Jan 26 - I received a PM from Bob asking to alter the deal again. This time he wanted to keep both books and pay my asking price for the book. I said no to that too because the cash/trade deal was (GPA value wise) tilted in my favor as Bob pointed out in our original negotiations.

 

-- Bob said as a collector he was having a hard time letting go of one of his books and it was up to me me whether I "called him out on the Boards" Yet during the original negotiations, Bob stated that he was actually considering upgrading that book, and it would be easy to replace.

 

Jan 27 - I PM'd Bob and told him I would be willing to accept his cash offer, as it was obvious he wasn't going to trade his books.

 

The JIM arrives at my house. I PM's Bob asking where we stand. He said he would like to explore some other trade options. At that point I said we have 2 options...

1 - The original deal

2 - full asking price as he offered

 

Bob called and got grading notes. There is a stain on the bottom back corner which was asked about IN the original thread to which I responded "I think the bottom back corner is just an odd light". The book was at CGC, so I couldn't be 100% sure. Bob said due to that, "Many would consider this to be overgraded"

 

At that point Bob backed out

 

 

Looks like buyers remorse to me. He tried just about everything to change the concept of the deal...when that was denied he decided maybe there is something I can do with the graders notes. Got them and said small stain there is my ace.

 

Had the events timeline transpired differently it would be a different story.

 

I don't mean to speak for him, but I know Bob personally and I can say with 100% certainty that he's not the kind of guy to weasel out of a deal. I know that he's a very picky collector and that something like that stain would definitely bother him.

 

For whatever that's worth.

 

I hate to see 2 vets go at it over a book of this caliber. I wish they could work something out...my proposition would be something like hey if you can't sell it in the next X amount of time for X amount will cover the loss you are taking cause I backed out.

[paperheart]

So what would be the difference if he bought it, then decided he wasn't happy and returned it?? Most sellers here have a return policy.

 

 

That's what I'm thinking. I understand the seller not being happy about the deal falling through. But if the only way to make him "whole" is for the buyer to pay for a book he doesn't want...that doesn't seem fair either.

 

and how would Bob get off the PL list? by going through with a deal on a book that he feels is over-graded based on graders notes (information not available when the deal was struck- unless i'm reading this wrong)?

[DR.X]

I don't mean to speak for him, but I know Bob personally and I can say with 100% certainty that he's not the kind of guy to weasel out of a deal. I know that he's a very picky collector and that something like that stain would definitely bother him.

 

I think it would bother anyone on a transaction this large.

[jaybuck43]

I have split feelings on this. On the one hand part of me thinks "Well if he was concerned about the stain he should have said so and not accepted the book, or taken it contingent on it coming back and reinspecting it in better pics/scans or from hearing from CGC on it" I had an issue with a seller who was selling me a book that had something on it that looked odd. Turns out it was just the scans and therefore nothing but I bought the book contingent on that issue not being there.

 

On the other hand, as a buyer finding out there was a stain on a book, especially a high grade grail, would make me want to scuttle the deal.

 

I think taking the people out of the deal, and looking at the totality of the circumstances we see this. Seller (S) offered to sell the book for 5 figures. Buyer (B) looked the book over, asked questions, was satisfied with responses and agreed to buy. There was a deal in place between B and S. B then tried to alter the deal, which S did not allow, B then exited the deal, citing an issue that he was aware of the whole time (that there may be a stain of some sort on the book) My view is that is probation worthy (there was a deal and B broke the deal) Now in terms of how B gets OFF the PL, thats a different issue (a donation to a charity in an agreed upon amount, agreeing to pay the difference between the value of the deal (GPA on the two books and cash) and what S ends up selling the book for, going through with the deal as originally constructed) and can be decided by both parties afterwords.

[Spider-Dan]

I don't mean to speak for him, but I know Bob personally and I can say with 100% certainty that he's not the kind of guy to weasel out of a deal. I know that he's a very picky collector and that something like that stain would definitely bother him.

 

I think it would bother anyone on a transaction this large.

 

For purposes of Probation or Not, lets forget the stain.

 

This was PM'd to me BEFORE the "stain" became an issue

 

Your call whether you want to call me out on the Boards.

 

So it doesn't really apply here

[Bio-Rupp]

Hate this happened... but buyer agreed to take a CGC slabbed 8.0 book.

 

If this book was raw... I could see a problem as differences in opinion occur, but this book has been 3rd party graded.

 

Yes, I understand that sometimes we don't agree with CGC's grading either... but that is what we pay them for, correct?

 

Seems to me, and no offense meant toward Bob, but he was getting exactly what he was paying for... a slabbed 8.0 copy of a serious Marvel key.

 

xxx ooo

 

Rupp

 

 

[EC ed]

I have no doubt that Bob is a fine guy. However, I don't like the tone this discussion is taking...it's starting to reek of 'the PL mechanism shouldn't be enforced equally against all boardies'...and some of you might recall how I feel about that type of thinking...

 

As far as this goes, we need to think of Bob as 'Boardie A' and Spider-Dan as 'Boardie B.' Further, as far as this goes, the value of the book shouldn't matter, either. Nor should the stain, unless there was a contingency included in the deal. Could be any two boardies, with any book. Should Spider-Dan have waited to get the book in hand before selling it - probably. Should Bob have gotten the notes before agreeing to the deal - probably. But if that didn't happen and a deal was committed to, if Bob indeed failed to follow through on the commitment, he's subject to the PL, and it's up to Spider-Dan (and Bob) to work out a satisfactory resolution for Spider-Dan. How could Bob rectify this? The same way a n00b with a low-dollar book would rectify it...

 

I agree that it is unfortunate that this is happening with veteran boardies on a 5-figure book, but the process doesn't vary based on these dimensions...it's equally applicable.

 

So, the next thing that we need to know is Bob's side of the story, from Bob himself, so it can be assessed whether he failed to complete an agreed upon marketplace transaction. If evidence bears that out, it is what it is.

 

Ed

[Spacy]

Jaybuck, Bio-Rupp, and Ed are spot on IMO

 

 

[mikenyc]

So if we operate on the basis that since the buyer could have changed their mind when the book was in hand and could have returned it, then every single member who is on the PL for not following through on a transaction should be removed.

 

 

 

 

 

[Spider-Dan]

Not that it matters, but I just want to put this "stain" into perspective

 

CGC notes claim the stain goes through the whole book

 

Here are cropped pics of it pre-slab

 

You can see how it might be missed in a haste