PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Speedy-D]

Both are somewhat misrepresentations to the buyer though?

 

The seller, who has the book IN HAND and can look at it closely, is saying that it doesn't appear to be a stain. The buyer, who is ONLY going on the pictures/scans/seller's word has no opportunity to examine the book in hand.

 

If that was the end of it, I would easily side with the buyer. BUT Bob wanted out of hte deal before getting the grader's notes, so in that regard > I begin to take the seller's side.

 

It's really a tough call and I need Bob's argument.

He'd already sent it to CGC, so all he had was his memory and the same pics Bob was looking at.

 

But all that aside, does the "I think" part of it not mitigate in some way? Just interested, not trying to win a point.

 

Going from memory on such a big book is a tough call given how much staining will turn buyers off in this hobby.

True dat. Best by far to say in all caps "I DON'T KNOW!!!"

[Spider-Dan]

Both are somewhat misrepresentations to the buyer though?

 

The seller, who has the book IN HAND and can look at it closely, is saying that it doesn't appear to be a stain. The buyer, who is ONLY going on the pictures/scans/seller's word has no opportunity to examine the book in hand.

 

If that was the end of it, I would easily side with the buyer. BUT Bob wanted out of hte deal before getting the grader's notes, so in that regard > I begin to take the seller's side.

 

It's really a tough call and I need Bob's argument.

 

That's the thing... I DIDNT have the book in hand. It was in transit from Florida. If I had it in hand, I would have taken and posted a pic and answered the question the best I could

 

So what would be the difference if he bought it, then decided he wasn't happy and returned it?? Most sellers here have a return policy.

 

Interesting point. If the deal had gone through, he had received the book, noticed the stain, ordered the grading notes to confirm that it was a stain, and then asked to return the book, then what? Seems like there is some ambiguity here particularly if the seller indicated in the thread that he didn't think there was a stain.

 

If you submitted the book raw, which I assume you did, why did you tell him something different when he asked about the stain? I mean if you sent the book in I'm sure you looked it over with a fine tooth comb right.

 

The stain is so light I didn't notice it. The day I got the book, I took some pics and sent it off. I barely handled it for fear of damaging it. Had I know, I absolutely would have stated that.

 

I think he's referring to when you had it in hand before you sent it out for grading.

 

Here is that answer again...

[mikenyc]

If the buyer altered or attempted to alter the deal multiple times and threatened at one point to let the seller do what they have to do, assuming in relation to the PL, doesn't it seem that eventually a reason was found to justify the trepidation?

 

Assuming Spider-Dan is accurate in his chain of events, this wasn't a I'll take the book, then I get graders notes, then I don't feel comfortable with the book. There was already a lot of flexibility on the part of the seller with the multiple alterations to the original agreed upon deal.

 

The question will be, does the grader's notes allow for a buyer to back out of a deal if the flaw is not disclosed, and I think it's fair to say not by malicious omission.

[Bio-Rupp]

I'm still trying to see the stain on any interior pages

 

 

 

[Spider-Dan]

I'm still trying to see the stain on any interior pages

 

 

 

 

How could I miss that!!

[comix4fun]

If the buyer altered or attempted to alter the deal multiple times and threatened at one point to let the seller do what they have to do, assuming in relation to the PL, doesn't it seem that eventually a reason was found to justify the trepidation?

 

Assuming Spider-Dan is accurate in his chain of events, this wasn't a I'll take the book, then I get graders notes, then I don't feel comfortable with the book. There was already a lot of flexibility on the part of the seller with the multiple alterations to the original agreed upon deal.

 

The question will be, does the grader's notes allow for a buyer to back out of a deal if the flaw is not disclosed, and I think it's fair to say not by malicious omission.

 

 

 

I guess we'll have to hear from Bob and see.

 

There's non-disclosure and then there's disclosure contrary to later known facts.

 

If the seller would have said nothing when asked about the stain instead of stating his opinion that it wasn't a stain I would probably agree that it's a locked in sale no matter what the notes said.

 

However, his opinion/disclosure regarding the stain becomes part of the book's description for any/all buyers. That's where my consternation comes from.

[djpinkpanther67]

I'm still trying to see the stain on any interior pages

 

 

 

Black Light?

[comix4fun]

I'm still trying to see the stain on any interior pages

 

 

 

Black Light?

 

 

It's visible on the cover and the last interior page. I can't see it anywhere else.

[Bio-Rupp]

I'm still trying to see the stain on any interior pages

 

 

 

Black Light?

 

 

It's visible on the cover and the last interior page. I can't see it anywhere else.

 

Break out the photoshop pen and circle it if you can... just can't see it

[skypinkblu]

Both are somewhat misrepresentations to the buyer though?

 

The seller, who has the book IN HAND and can look at it closely, is saying that it doesn't appear to be a stain. The buyer, who is ONLY going on the pictures/scans/seller's word has no opportunity to examine the book in hand.

 

If that was the end of it, I would easily side with the buyer. BUT Bob wanted out of hte deal before getting the grader's notes, so in that regard > I begin to take the seller's side.

 

It's really a tough call and I need Bob's argument.

 

That's the thing... I DIDNT have the book in hand. It was in transit from Florida. If I had it in hand, I would have taken and posted a pic and answered the question the best I could

 

Here is something I never understand. Why are things being sold before they are in hand?

 

If we were going to vote on rules, that would be my number one pick. No selling until you have the item in front of you.

 

 

I just never understand the rush.

 

I'd like to hear from Bob, but I have a question Dan. You said he offered to pay full price, if I'm reading correctly you didn't accept his offer because you thought the part trade/cash was a better deal for you. However you listed it as a cash deal. If you had accepted the cash, and then when it arrived, he didn't like the fact the book had a stain (not a light shadow), what would you have done?

 

[comix4fun]

I'm still trying to see the stain on any interior pages

 

 

 

Black Light?

 

 

It's visible on the cover and the last interior page. I can't see it anywhere else.

 

Break out the photoshop pen and circle it if you can... just can't see it

 

 

I'll give it a shot.

 

The back cover is clear (if you're looking for it, not sure I would have spotted it otherwise) and the halo of the stain is in the same spot.

[Bio-Rupp]

I'm still trying to see the stain on any interior pages

 

 

 

Black Light?

 

 

It's visible on the cover and the last interior page. I can't see it anywhere else.

 

Break out the photoshop pen and circle it if you can... just can't see it

 

 

I'll give it a shot.

 

The back cover is clear (if you're looking for it, not sure I would have spotted it otherwise) and the halo of the stain is in the same spot.

 

I think I can see the back cover one... looks like a circular pattern. That said I see nothing on the inside back cover or last page

[Spider-Dan]

Both are somewhat misrepresentations to the buyer though?

 

The seller, who has the book IN HAND and can look at it closely, is saying that it doesn't appear to be a stain. The buyer, who is ONLY going on the pictures/scans/seller's word has no opportunity to examine the book in hand.

 

If that was the end of it, I would easily side with the buyer. BUT Bob wanted out of hte deal before getting the grader's notes, so in that regard > I begin to take the seller's side.

 

It's really a tough call and I need Bob's argument.

 

That's the thing... I DIDNT have the book in hand. It was in transit from Florida. If I had it in hand, I would have taken and posted a pic and answered the question the best I could

 

Here is something I never understand. Why are things being sold before they are in hand?

 

If we were going to vote on rules, that would be my number one pick. No selling until you have the item in front of you.

 

 

I just never understand the rush.

 

I'd like to hear from Bob, but I have a question Dan. You said he offered to pay full price, if I'm reading correctly you didn't accept his offer because you thought the part trade/cash was a better deal for you. However you listed it as a cash deal. If you had accepted the cash, and then when it arrived, he didn't like the fact the book had a stain (not a light shadow), what would you have done?

 

 

While I agree with not selling before in hand, which I rarely do, in this case if the one in the CL January auction would have finished well below GPA (which it finished almost $1600 below) that would have affected the value of this one. Of course if it would have finished higher, it would have been in my favor. That's my reasoning for putting it up before having it in hand. As far as the other question, I cant answer that, because that's not what happened.

[HarveySwick]

If the buyer altered or attempted to alter the deal multiple times and threatened at one point to let the seller do what they have to do, assuming in relation to the PL, doesn't it seem that eventually a reason was found to justify the trepidation?

 

Assuming Spider-Dan is accurate in his chain of events, this wasn't a I'll take the book, then I get graders notes, then I don't feel comfortable with the book. There was already a lot of flexibility on the part of the seller with the multiple alterations to the original agreed upon deal.

 

The question will be, does the grader's notes allow for a buyer to back out of a deal if the flaw is not disclosed, and I think it's fair to say not by malicious omission.

 

 

 

I guess we'll have to hear from Bob and see.

 

There's non-disclosure and then there's disclosure contrary to later known facts.

 

If the seller would have said nothing when asked about the stain instead of stating his opinion that it wasn't a stain I would probably agree that it's a locked in sale no matter what the notes said.

 

However, his opinion/disclosure regarding the stain becomes part of the book's description for any/all buyers. That's where my consternation comes from.

[Sqeggs]

If you had accepted the cash, and then when it arrived, he didn't like the fact the book had a stain (not a light shadow), what would you have done?

 

 

Yeah, I think I asked that question earlier. If the deal had gone that way and the seller had refused to accept a return, might we now be hearing from the buyer trying to put the seller on the PL (particularly given the seller's response in the sales thread when asked about the possibility of a stain)?

[MetalPSI]

I can barely see it on the back cover, its quite big actually. Goes into the green of the ad and starts at the bottom corner.

 

Can't see a thing on the inside back at all....

[Spider-Dan]

I can barely see it on the back cover, its quite big actually. Goes into the green of the ad and starts at the bottom corner.

 

Can't see a thing on the inside back at all....

 

That's not the stain. Graders note - "Right Bottom Back Cover Lite Smear"

[MetalPSI]

I can barely see it on the back cover, its quite big actually. Goes into the green of the ad and starts at the bottom corner.

 

Can't see a thing on the inside back at all....

 

That's not the stain. Graders note - "Right Bottom Back Cover Lite Smear"

 

AHHH k... sorry, I have NO experience with grading, just stating what I can see

[comix4fun]

Here's the back cover....the stain is in the corner..the rest of the smearing mentioned. The arrows denote where it starts/ends...that semi-circle in the corner.

 

 

Here's an inverted image where the stain is more easily definable....

 

 

 

On the inside page you can see the same semi circle halo. It's a like near the corner again.

The lightness of the line where the stain starts is visible and lines up with the back cover.

 

[Spider-Dan]

I can barely see it on the back cover, its quite big actually. Goes into the green of the ad and starts at the bottom corner.

 

Can't see a thing on the inside back at all....

 

That's not the stain. Graders note - "Right Bottom Back Cover Lite Smear"

 

AHHH k... sorry, I have NO experience with grading, just stating what I can see

 

That's OK, obviously I don't either