PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[crassus]

 

IMO poor service or incompetence is the same as ignorance of the law. It's no excuse.

 

I agree its no excuse vis a vis taking responsibility for what duty one owes to others. My point is only that incompetence and poor service are not the same as dishonesty and deception, and for me the difference between PL and HoS hinges on this distinction.

[MetalPSI]

 

IMO poor service or incompetence is the same as ignorance of the law. It's no excuse.

 

I agree its no excuse vis a vis taking responsibility for what duty one owes to others. My point is only that incompetence and poor service are not the same as dishonesty and deception, and for me the difference between PL and HoS hinges on this distinction.

 

I agree with your perception. I am a bit hard nosed when it comes to these types of issues and perhaps more tough than fair. The following statement is a OPINION of mine, thats all....

 

In this day and age there seems to be more and more lazy and greedy business people out there than honest merchants. I think that issues like this are taken way too lax and allow for room for this type of behavior. I just choose to take a tough stance and say "No way" to any sort of sordid behavior at all.

 

I will refuse to do business with this person, or any person on HoS or PL, rectified or not.

 

As a consumer I have been around enough and I feel that if enough people would take this stance, these issues would dwindle away to nothing.

 

Sellers seem to forget, without their customers, they have no way of making a living. There used to be a decent amount of respect for that. Not so much anymore....

[asteroid-comix]

 

That said, shouldn't HOS be reserved for the truly "worst of the worst"? Does Menace really represent that aspect of the hobby? I just can't say that he does... at least not yet.

 

I'm in the same place with this.

 

+2

 

I voted "No". The sketch opp and the refund issue are clearly PL worthy (based on the comments by the artist that its Menace that has delayed things), but I don't think it's HOS worthy.

 

[seanfingh]

Even though Menace has tons of issues to work through, there is NO WAY this is even close to HOS yet. There is a bloodthirsty, torch-bearing, Salem Witch Trials vibe around here lately. It is disconcerting.

 

It is my own fault for only popping in here to see what is going on, but the concept of going from a potential PL inclusion to having a vote for the HOS in a matter of HOURS is ridiculous.

 

face palm.

[TheMightyJohn]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace.

[comix4fun]

Even though Menace has tons of issues to work through, there is NO WAY this is even close to HOS yet. There is a bloodthirsty, torch-bearing, Salem Witch Trials vibe around here lately. It is disconcerting.

 

It is my own fault for only popping in here to see what is going on, but the concept of going from a potential PL inclusion to having a vote for the HOS in a matter of HOURS is ridiculous.

 

face palm.

 

 

I agree.

 

It reminds me of an old movie where two men were talking about the DEFCON system and one said to the other "Do you know why we never want to go to DEFCON 1? Because after that there's nothing else."

 

We must be vigilant in our protection of the forums while also being judicious in our choice of punishment. If not then the system loses purpose and meaning.

[N/A]

The long term solution to situations like this one would be for the program to police who is allowed and not allowed to facilitate based on track record.

(thumbs u

 

Completely agree with this and I have complete faith that the SS group is doing what is best for the program.

[N/A]

 

IMO poor service or incompetence is the same as ignorance of the law. It's no excuse.

 

I agree its no excuse vis a vis taking responsibility for what duty one owes to others. My point is only that incompetence and poor service are not the same as dishonesty and deception, and for me the difference between PL and HoS hinges on this distinction.

 

I agree with your perception. I am a bit hard nosed when it comes to these types of issues and perhaps more tough than fair. The following statement is a OPINION of mine, thats all....

 

In this day and age there seems to be more and more lazy and greedy business people out there than honest merchants. I think that issues like this are taken way too lax and allow for room for this type of behavior. I just choose to take a tough stance and say "No way" to any sort of sordid behavior at all.

 

I will refuse to do business with this person, or any person on HoS or PL, rectified or not.

 

As a consumer I have been around enough and I feel that if enough people would take this stance, these issues would dwindle away to nothing.

 

Sellers seem to forget, without their customers, they have no way of making a living. There used to be a decent amount of respect for that. Not so much anymore....

 

The key to everything you said here is communication. I have 3 transactions going on 2 years old. 2 customers are fine with that and the 3rd asked to be let out of the transaction. It all comes down to communication and managing expectations. It seems Menace lacked in the communication department but we've seen the same with DWC and yet not even a PL nomination.

[slym2none]

I can't wait until he starts posting again.

 

He changed it again.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7232724#Post7232724

 

 

 

 

-slym

[N/A]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace.

 

AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u

 

I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace?

[Logan510]

Even though Menace has tons of issues to work through, there is NO WAY this is even close to HOS yet. There is a bloodthirsty, torch-bearing, Salem Witch Trials vibe around here lately. It is disconcerting.

 

It is my own fault for only popping in here to see what is going on, but the concept of going from a potential PL inclusion to having a vote for the HOS in a matter of HOURS is ridiculous.

 

face palm.

 

 

I agree.

 

It reminds me of an old movie where two men were talking about the DEFCON system and one said to the other "Do you know why we never want to go to DEFCON 1? Because after that there's nothing else."

 

We must be vigilant in our protection of the forums while also being judicious in our choice of punishment. If not then the system loses purpose and meaning.

 

 

What about the people who've been on the PL more than once? I don't really like the idea of people getting off scott free just because they make amends only because they got caught.

 

As we both know, people's memories can get very short when it comes to cool books.

[slym2none]

Stalking is just another form of bad love.

 

FTFY

 

 

 

-slym

[N/A]

Stalking is just another form of bad love.

 

FTFY

 

 

 

-slym

 

YCLM

[slym2none]

OK

 

 

 

-slym

[TheMightyJohn]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace.

 

AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u

 

I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace?

 

No not hearsey what I know is from my conversations with Mike B a year ago when Menace screwed me. Menace also was added to the probie list last May by me. After a long apology Email from him about his family business blah blah blah. I felt bad and request the mods delete my flamming. I'm sure there are some from the ss room than can recall this and back me. Dscott I am sure remembers he helped with the situation.

[Bio-Rupp]

For anyone who missed it MENACE is being nominated for the HOS. Vote is on page 1990

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7234272&fpart=1990

 

And he already hit the notify moderator button on the poll.

 

I guess he feels we shouldn't follow our own guidelines.

 

 

Didn't you know he is above the rules??? How else could he still operate as a facilitator for CGC with all of the complaints on him

 

Where is this list of complaints you keep referring to? I see 2 issues.

 

He has had numerous complaints on him brought to Mikes attention of the last year or more. All of this is nothing new with Menace.

 

AKA - you do not know. It's ok not to know. If you have a list please share otherwise hearsay doesn't help. (thumbs u

 

I sense a very personal vibe with your posts. Do you have something personal with Menace?

 

No not hearsey what I know is from my conversations with Mike B a year ago when Menace screwed me. Menace also was added to the probie list last May by me. After a long apology Email from him about his family business blah blah blah. I felt bad and request the mods delete my flamming. I'm sure there are some from the ss room than can recall this and back me. Dscott I am sure remembers he helped with the situation.

 

Were you reimbursed any money out of pocket for this transaction?

[comix4fun]

Even though Menace has tons of issues to work through, there is NO WAY this is even close to HOS yet. There is a bloodthirsty, torch-bearing, Salem Witch Trials vibe around here lately. It is disconcerting.

 

It is my own fault for only popping in here to see what is going on, but the concept of going from a potential PL inclusion to having a vote for the HOS in a matter of HOURS is ridiculous.

 

face palm.

 

 

I agree.

 

It reminds me of an old movie where two men were talking about the DEFCON system and one said to the other "Do you know why we never want to go to DEFCON 1? Because after that there's nothing else."

 

We must be vigilant in our protection of the forums while also being judicious in our choice of punishment. If not then the system loses purpose and meaning.

 

 

What about the people who've been on the PL more than once? I don't really like the idea of people getting off scott free just because they make amends only because they got caught.

 

As we both know, people's memories can get very short when it comes to cool books.

 

 

You just don't want to soften what the HOS is supposed to mean by the inclusion of folks who will find better and more effective corrective action taken against them in other areas.

 

What I mean is, for someone who fails to provide the correct service in the SS facilitation arena, it would seem the most effective way to prevent that from happening again is to not provide him with the permissions necessary to allow that to happen again.

 

It's more of a "Right Hammer for the Right Nail" situation.

[bababooey]

Even though Menace has tons of issues to work through, there is NO WAY this is even close to HOS yet. There is a bloodthirsty, torch-bearing, Salem Witch Trials vibe around here lately. It is disconcerting.

 

It is my own fault for only popping in here to see what is going on, but the concept of going from a potential PL inclusion to having a vote for the HOS in a matter of HOURS is ridiculous.

 

face palm.

 

 

I agree.

 

It reminds me of an old movie where two men were talking about the DEFCON system and one said to the other "Do you know why we never want to go to DEFCON 1? Because after that there's nothing else."

 

We must be vigilant in our protection of the forums while also being judicious in our choice of punishment. If not then the system loses purpose and meaning.

 

 

What about the people who've been on the PL more than once? I don't really like the idea of people getting off scott free just because they make amends only because they got caught.

 

As we both know, people's memories can get very short when it comes to cool books.

 

 

You just don't want to soften what the HOS is supposed to mean by the inclusion of folks who will find better and more effective corrective action taken against them in other areas.

 

What I mean is, for someone who fails to provide the correct service in the SS facilitation arena, it would seem the most effective way to prevent that from happening again is to not provide him with the permissions necessary to allow that to happen again.

 

It's more of a "Right Hammer for the Right Nail" situation.

 

Is it wrong to pray that Menace gets an exclusive Byrne OP so that Logan's head explodes?

 

[Logan510]

Even though Menace has tons of issues to work through, there is NO WAY this is even close to HOS yet. There is a bloodthirsty, torch-bearing, Salem Witch Trials vibe around here lately. It is disconcerting.

 

It is my own fault for only popping in here to see what is going on, but the concept of going from a potential PL inclusion to having a vote for the HOS in a matter of HOURS is ridiculous.

 

face palm.

 

 

I agree.

 

It reminds me of an old movie where two men were talking about the DEFCON system and one said to the other "Do you know why we never want to go to DEFCON 1? Because after that there's nothing else."

 

We must be vigilant in our protection of the forums while also being judicious in our choice of punishment. If not then the system loses purpose and meaning.

 

 

What about the people who've been on the PL more than once? I don't really like the idea of people getting off scott free just because they make amends only because they got caught.

 

As we both know, people's memories can get very short when it comes to cool books.

 

 

You just don't want to soften what the HOS is supposed to mean by the inclusion of folks who will find better and more effective corrective action taken against them in other areas.

 

What I mean is, for someone who fails to provide the correct service in the SS facilitation arena, it would seem the most effective way to prevent that from happening again is to not provide him with the permissions necessary to allow that to happen again.

 

It's more of a "Right Hammer for the Right Nail" situation.

 

Is it wrong to pray that Menace gets an exclusive Byrne OP so that Logan's head explodes?

 

 

cool books!

[Bio-Rupp]

Even though Menace has tons of issues to work through, there is NO WAY this is even close to HOS yet. There is a bloodthirsty, torch-bearing, Salem Witch Trials vibe around here lately. It is disconcerting.

 

It is my own fault for only popping in here to see what is going on, but the concept of going from a potential PL inclusion to having a vote for the HOS in a matter of HOURS is ridiculous.

 

face palm.

 

 

I agree.

 

It reminds me of an old movie where two men were talking about the DEFCON system and one said to the other "Do you know why we never want to go to DEFCON 1? Because after that there's nothing else."

 

We must be vigilant in our protection of the forums while also being judicious in our choice of punishment. If not then the system loses purpose and meaning.

 

 

What about the people who've been on the PL more than once? I don't really like the idea of people getting off scott free just because they make amends only because they got caught.

 

As we both know, people's memories can get very short when it comes to cool books.

 

 

You just don't want to soften what the HOS is supposed to mean by the inclusion of folks who will find better and more effective corrective action taken against them in other areas.

 

What I mean is, for someone who fails to provide the correct service in the SS facilitation arena, it would seem the most effective way to prevent that from happening again is to not provide him with the permissions necessary to allow that to happen again.

 

It's more of a "Right Hammer for the Right Nail" situation.

 

Is it wrong to pray that Menace gets an exclusive Byrne OP so that Logan's head explodes?

 

 

]