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Is New Mutants #98 the next Hulk #181?

Started by Mr 9.8,

259 posts in this topic

natevegas

natevegas

Posted
Posted
$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Of course you can compare but it wouldn't be a good comparison. TNMT had a major motion picture back in 1990 (went on to have 3 made and currently getting its second new movie) vs Deadpool's first movie now. I mean come on its in its second movie variation right now. Give Deadpool from movie stand point wise a 26 year head start it'll be a bigger brand that it is right now.

 

What I got from the OP was that a new king might be here.

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

Posted
Posted
$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Of course you can compare but it wouldn't be a good comparison. TNMT had a major motion picture back in 1990 (went on to have 3 made and currently getting its second new movie) vs Deadpool's first movie now. I mean come on its in its second movie variation right now. Give Deadpool from movie stand point wise a 26 year head start it'll be a bigger brand that it is right now.

 

What I got from the OP was that a new king might be here.

 

Your comments don't really make sense... Are we supposed to come back in +20 more years to see where Deadpool is at? Will it be a good comparison then or will TMNT still have an edge because it is "older?"

 

They are both from the Copper Age and it is a very good comparison. Regardless the question originally was comparing versus IH 181, is it a bad comparison for that one as well because of all the X-Men and Wolverine movies...?

 

:shrug:

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natevegas

natevegas

Posted
Posted
$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Of course you can compare but it wouldn't be a good comparison. TNMT had a major motion picture back in 1990 (went on to have 3 made and currently getting its second new movie) vs Deadpool's first movie now. I mean come on its in its second movie variation right now. Give Deadpool from movie stand point wise a 26 year head start it'll be a bigger brand that it is right now.

 

What I got from the OP was that a new king might be here.

 

Your comments don't really make sense... Are we supposed to come back in +20 more years to see where Deadpool is at? Will it be a good comparison then or will TMNT still have an edge because it is "older?"

 

They are both from the Copper Age and it is a very good comparison. Regardless the question originally was comparing versus IH 181, is it a bad comparison for that one as well because of all the X-Men and Wolverine movies...?

 

:shrug:

My comment makes perfect sense and here is why.

 

Nobody knew much about TNMT outside of the kids watching the animation shows and toys and a few in the comic genre but when the movie hit in 1990 everyone knew who they were. The MASSES have know about them for at least 26 years now.

 

Deadpool was only know to the masses since Friday. That is a huge difference in comparing 2 brands from the copper age when encompassing all forms of media, advertisement, and exposure.

 

Ask yourself would IH 181 be valuable without Jackman and the X-men movies? Sure. Would it be worth what it is going for because of this heck no.

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Jaydogrules

Jaydogrules

Posted
Posted

Saying that none of TMNT 1's "value" is tied to its relative rarity is fantasy.

 

Would 9.8 copies of TMNT 1 sell for $20k if there were also 2300++ copies of it on the census ?

 

Hell no.

 

Would 9.8 copies of NM 98 sell for $850 (especially after this past weekend) if there were only 21 copies of it on the census?

 

Hell no.

 

Unfortunately there is no way to know what these would sell for if they had remotely comparable print and census numbers so this is probably a pointless debate for people with entrenched opinions. TMNT 1 may be the most "valuable" book of the Copper Age (yes, because of its rarity), but NM 98 is probably the most in demand book of the Copper Age (yes, because of its ubiquity, which keeps its price within reach of far more collectors).

 

-J.

 

 

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oakman29

oakman29

Posted
Posted
Saying that none of TMNT 1's "value" is tied to its relative rarity is fantasy.

 

Would 9.8 copies of TMNT 1 sell for $20k if there were also 2300++ copies of it on the census ?

 

Hell no.

 

Would 9.8 copies of NM 98 sell for $850 (especially after this past weekend) if there were only 21 copies of it on the census?

 

Hell no.

 

Unfortunately there is no way to know what these would sell for if they had remotely comparable print and census numbers so this is probably a pointless debate for people with entrenched opinions. TMNT 1 may be the most "valuable" book of the Copper Age (yes, because of its rarity), but NM 98 is probably the most in demand book of the Copper Age (yes, because of its ubiquity, which keeps its price within reach of far more collectors).

 

-J.

 

 

I say to hell with it, and own them both. lol

 

I've never been much of a gambling man, I like to hedge my bets.

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Vikingreed

Vikingreed

Posted
Posted
Saying that none of TMNT 1's "value" is tied to its relative rarity is fantasy.

 

Would 9.8 copies of TMNT 1 sell for $20k if there were also 2300++ copies of it on the census ?

 

Hell no.

 

Would 9.8 copies of NM 98 sell for $850 (especially after this past weekend) if there were only 21 copies of it on the census?

 

Hell no.

 

Unfortunately there is no way to know what these would sell for if they had remotely comparable print and census numbers so this is probably a pointless debate for people with entrenched opinions. TMNT 1 may be the most "valuable" book of the Copper Age (yes, because of its rarity), but NM 98 is probably the most in demand book of the Copper Age (yes, because of its ubiquity, which keeps its price within reach of far more collectors).

 

-J.

 

 

This is what I was trying to say. But I like to be short and sweet, and make geeks argue.

 

Plus turtles can't be kings... I don't even know how they achieved ninja status.

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

Posted
Posted
Saying that none of TMNT 1's "value" is tied to its relative rarity is fantasy.

 

Would 9.8 copies of TMNT 1 sell for $20k if there were also 2300++ copies of it on the census ?

 

Hell no.

 

Would 9.8 copies of NM 98 sell for $850 (especially after this past weekend) if there were only 21 copies of it on the census?

 

Hell no.

 

Unfortunately there is no way to know what these would sell for if they had remotely comparable print and census numbers so this is probably a pointless debate for people with entrenched opinions. TMNT 1 may be the most "valuable" book of the Copper Age (yes, because of its rarity), but NM 98 is probably the most in demand book of the Copper Age (yes, because of its ubiquity, which keeps its price within reach of far more collectors).

 

-J.

 

 

Dude, who said "none?"

 

How else are we supposed to derive relative value without price comparison?

 

Are you going use the "market cap" argument? Or total franchise value? Other thoughts?

 

:shrug:

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

Posted
Posted
$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Of course you can compare but it wouldn't be a good comparison. TNMT had a major motion picture back in 1990 (went on to have 3 made and currently getting its second new movie) vs Deadpool's first movie now. I mean come on its in its second movie variation right now. Give Deadpool from movie stand point wise a 26 year head start it'll be a bigger brand that it is right now.

 

What I got from the OP was that a new king might be here.

 

Your comments don't really make sense... Are we supposed to come back in +20 more years to see where Deadpool is at? Will it be a good comparison then or will TMNT still have an edge because it is "older?"

 

They are both from the Copper Age and it is a very good comparison. Regardless the question originally was comparing versus IH 181, is it a bad comparison for that one as well because of all the X-Men and Wolverine movies...?

 

:shrug:

My comment makes perfect sense and here is why.

 

Nobody knew much about TNMT outside of the kids watching the animation shows and toys and a few in the comic genre but when the movie hit in 1990 everyone knew who they were. The MASSES have know about them for at least 26 years now.

 

Deadpool was only know to the masses since Friday. That is a huge difference in comparing 2 brands from the copper age when encompassing all forms of media, advertisement, and exposure.

 

Ask yourself would IH 181 be valuable without Jackman and the X-men movies? Sure. Would it be worth what it is going for because of this heck no.

 

No, they don't. You argument is derived on your perceived value the original TMNT movie had on that franchise and the amount of time between now and then versus Deadpool just now getting his own movie. Those are important factors as to why a book is valued as it is, but not reasons to exclude them.

 

The timeline and their respective impact does not change the discussion at hand: which book is the "king of the copper age?" Regardless of when during the "age" it was printed and the length of time since "mass appeal" was reached, doesn't change the perameters of the discussion. Both books were printed in the prescribed time frame and both are in consideration for the "title." You cannot dismiss one because they both meet the same criteria "printed in the Copper Age."

 

That would be like disqualifying Hulk 1 as a contender for "king of Silver Age" because it has far fewer copies than Amazing Fantasy 15. AF 15 is the clear winner in that instance because of the book's individual value. There are numerous reasons as to why that is including movies and character merchandising, but they aren't factors for exclusion because they aren't the same as the comic of comparison. They were both printed in the "Silver Age" and therefore are both in the "running."

 

Honestly, you aren't even approaching entering into a logical conversation at this point.

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IntoAnother

IntoAnother

Posted
Posted
$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Of course you can compare but it wouldn't be a good comparison. TNMT had a major motion picture back in 1990 (went on to have 3 made and currently getting its second new movie) vs Deadpool's first movie now. I mean come on its in its second movie variation right now. Give Deadpool from movie stand point wise a 26 year head start it'll be a bigger brand that it is right now.

 

What I got from the OP was that a new king might be here.

 

Your comments don't really make sense... Are we supposed to come back in +20 more years to see where Deadpool is at? Will it be a good comparison then or will TMNT still have an edge because it is "older?"

 

They are both from the Copper Age and it is a very good comparison. Regardless the question originally was comparing versus IH 181, is it a bad comparison for that one as well because of all the X-Men and Wolverine movies...?

 

:shrug:

My comment makes perfect sense and here is why.

 

Nobody knew much about TNMT outside of the kids watching the animation shows and toys and a few in the comic genre but when the movie hit in 1990 everyone knew who they were. The MASSES have know about them for at least 26 years now.

 

Deadpool was only know to the masses since Friday. That is a huge difference in comparing 2 brands from the copper age when encompassing all forms of media, advertisement, and exposure.

 

Ask yourself would IH 181 be valuable without Jackman and the X-men movies? Sure. Would it be worth what it is going for because of this heck no.

 

No, they don't. You argument is derived on your perceived value the original TMNT movie had on that franchise and the amount of time between now and then versus Deadpool just now getting his own movie. Those are important factors as to why a book is valued as it is, but not reasons to exclude them.

 

The timeline and their respective impact does not change the discussion at hand: which book is the "king of the copper age?" Regardless of when during the "age" it was printed and the length of time since "mass appeal" was reached, doesn't change the perameters of the discussion. Both books were printed in the prescribed time frame and both are in consideration for the "title." You cannot dismiss one because they both meet the same criteria "printed in the Copper Age."

 

That would be like disqualifying Hulk 1 as a contender for "king of Silver Age" because it has far fewer copies than Amazing Fantasy 15. AF 15 is the clear winner in that instance because of the book's individual value. There are numerous reasons as to why that is including movies and character merchandising, but they aren't factors for exclusion because they aren't the same as the comic of comparison. They were both printed in the "Silver Age" and therefore are both in the "running."

 

Honestly, you aren't even approaching entering into a logical conversation at this point.

 

None of you are until someone starts saying The Tick is the Copper Age King! :whee:

 

 

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natevegas

natevegas

Posted
Posted
$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Of course you can compare but it wouldn't be a good comparison. TNMT had a major motion picture back in 1990 (went on to have 3 made and currently getting its second new movie) vs Deadpool's first movie now. I mean come on its in its second movie variation right now. Give Deadpool from movie stand point wise a 26 year head start it'll be a bigger brand that it is right now.

 

What I got from the OP was that a new king might be here.

 

Your comments don't really make sense... Are we supposed to come back in +20 more years to see where Deadpool is at? Will it be a good comparison then or will TMNT still have an edge because it is "older?"

 

They are both from the Copper Age and it is a very good comparison. Regardless the question originally was comparing versus IH 181, is it a bad comparison for that one as well because of all the X-Men and Wolverine movies...?

 

:shrug:

My comment makes perfect sense and here is why.

 

Nobody knew much about TNMT outside of the kids watching the animation shows and toys and a few in the comic genre but when the movie hit in 1990 everyone knew who they were. The MASSES have know about them for at least 26 years now.

 

Deadpool was only know to the masses since Friday. That is a huge difference in comparing 2 brands from the copper age when encompassing all forms of media, advertisement, and exposure.

 

Ask yourself would IH 181 be valuable without Jackman and the X-men movies? Sure. Would it be worth what it is going for because of this heck no.

 

No, they don't. You argument is derived on your perceived value the original TMNT movie had on that franchise and the amount of time between now and then versus Deadpool just now getting his own movie. Those are important factors as to why a book is valued as it is, but not reasons to exclude them.

 

The timeline and their respective impact does not change the discussion at hand: which book is the "king of the copper age?" Regardless of when during the "age" it was printed and the length of time since "mass appeal" was reached, doesn't change the perameters of the discussion. Both books were printed in the prescribed time frame and both are in consideration for the "title." You cannot dismiss one because they both meet the same criteria "printed in the Copper Age."

 

That would be like disqualifying Hulk 1 as a contender for "king of Silver Age" because it has far fewer copies than Amazing Fantasy 15. AF 15 is the clear winner in that instance because of the book's individual value. There are numerous reasons as to why that is including movies and character merchandising, but they aren't factors for exclusion because they aren't the same as the comic of comparison. They were both printed in the "Silver Age" and therefore are both in the "running."

 

Honestly, you aren't even approaching entering into a logical conversation at this point.

Can you logically deny that half the value of a high grade copy of IH 181 is because of the popularity rise to the masses since 2000 movie X-men?

 

Can you logically deny the rise of popularity of TNMT to the movie standard 26 years ago?

 

There were a bunch of people (my family included here) that had no idea who Deadpool even was before this weekend. To deny that tears up this whole argument.

TNMT was a teeny tiny print run. That helps its value and due to the movies starting in 1990 that spring boarded the rise of the brand to what is is today. Do you honestly think this only gives the book a 5 percent jump or something in value?

 

IH 181 is not a rare book but its supply and demand. Why is it so in demand? Its because his character has been available to the masses over time and the 2000 movie and subsequent movies has skyrocketed that popularity.

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

Posted
Posted
$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Of course you can compare but it wouldn't be a good comparison. TNMT had a major motion picture back in 1990 (went on to have 3 made and currently getting its second new movie) vs Deadpool's first movie now. I mean come on its in its second movie variation right now. Give Deadpool from movie stand point wise a 26 year head start it'll be a bigger brand that it is right now.

 

What I got from the OP was that a new king might be here.

 

Your comments don't really make sense... Are we supposed to come back in +20 more years to see where Deadpool is at? Will it be a good comparison then or will TMNT still have an edge because it is "older?"

 

They are both from the Copper Age and it is a very good comparison. Regardless the question originally was comparing versus IH 181, is it a bad comparison for that one as well because of all the X-Men and Wolverine movies...?

 

:shrug:

My comment makes perfect sense and here is why.

 

Nobody knew much about TNMT outside of the kids watching the animation shows and toys and a few in the comic genre but when the movie hit in 1990 everyone knew who they were. The MASSES have know about them for at least 26 years now.

 

Deadpool was only know to the masses since Friday. That is a huge difference in comparing 2 brands from the copper age when encompassing all forms of media, advertisement, and exposure.

 

Ask yourself would IH 181 be valuable without Jackman and the X-men movies? Sure. Would it be worth what it is going for because of this heck no.

 

No, they don't. You argument is derived on your perceived value the original TMNT movie had on that franchise and the amount of time between now and then versus Deadpool just now getting his own movie. Those are important factors as to why a book is valued as it is, but not reasons to exclude them.

 

The timeline and their respective impact does not change the discussion at hand: which book is the "king of the copper age?" Regardless of when during the "age" it was printed and the length of time since "mass appeal" was reached, doesn't change the perameters of the discussion. Both books were printed in the prescribed time frame and both are in consideration for the "title." You cannot dismiss one because they both meet the same criteria "printed in the Copper Age."

 

That would be like disqualifying Hulk 1 as a contender for "king of Silver Age" because it has far fewer copies than Amazing Fantasy 15. AF 15 is the clear winner in that instance because of the book's individual value. There are numerous reasons as to why that is including movies and character merchandising, but they aren't factors for exclusion because they aren't the same as the comic of comparison. They were both printed in the "Silver Age" and therefore are both in the "running."

 

Honestly, you aren't even approaching entering into a logical conversation at this point.

Can you logically deny that half the value of a high grade copy of IH 181 is because of the popularity rise to the masses since 2000 movie X-men?

 

Can you logically deny the rise of popularity of TNMT to the movie standard 26 years ago?

 

There were a bunch of people (my family included here) that had no idea who Deadpool even was before this weekend. To deny that tears up this whole argument.

TNMT was a teeny tiny print run. That helps its value and due to the movies starting in 1990 that spring boarded the rise of the brand to what is is today. Do you honestly think this only gives the book a 5 percent jump or something in value?

 

IH 181 is not a rare book but its supply and demand. Why is it so in demand? Its because his character has been available to the masses over time and the 2000 movie and subsequent movies has skyrocketed that popularity.

 

You still make zero sense. What point are you trying to make? I am not logically denying any of it, it all makes sense - all details as to why the books are worth what they are.

 

My only point was that both NM 98 and TMNT 1 should be included in the running for "King of the Copper Age" (IH 181 is a Bronze book). :shrug:

 

Now how you establish the title of "King" is worth discussing, mine (and the industry standard) is by individual book dollar valuation (regardless of how it accrued said value).

 

Are you even reading my posts? Or your own?

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natevegas

natevegas

Posted
Posted
$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Of course you can compare but it wouldn't be a good comparison. TNMT had a major motion picture back in 1990 (went on to have 3 made and currently getting its second new movie) vs Deadpool's first movie now. I mean come on its in its second movie variation right now. Give Deadpool from movie stand point wise a 26 year head start it'll be a bigger brand that it is right now.

 

What I got from the OP was that a new king might be here.

 

Your comments don't really make sense... Are we supposed to come back in +20 more years to see where Deadpool is at? Will it be a good comparison then or will TMNT still have an edge because it is "older?"

 

They are both from the Copper Age and it is a very good comparison. Regardless the question originally was comparing versus IH 181, is it a bad comparison for that one as well because of all the X-Men and Wolverine movies...?

 

:shrug:

My comment makes perfect sense and here is why.

 

Nobody knew much about TNMT outside of the kids watching the animation shows and toys and a few in the comic genre but when the movie hit in 1990 everyone knew who they were. The MASSES have know about them for at least 26 years now.

 

Deadpool was only know to the masses since Friday. That is a huge difference in comparing 2 brands from the copper age when encompassing all forms of media, advertisement, and exposure.

 

Ask yourself would IH 181 be valuable without Jackman and the X-men movies? Sure. Would it be worth what it is going for because of this heck no.

 

No, they don't. You argument is derived on your perceived value the original TMNT movie had on that franchise and the amount of time between now and then versus Deadpool just now getting his own movie. Those are important factors as to why a book is valued as it is, but not reasons to exclude them.

 

The timeline and their respective impact does not change the discussion at hand: which book is the "king of the copper age?" Regardless of when during the "age" it was printed and the length of time since "mass appeal" was reached, doesn't change the perameters of the discussion. Both books were printed in the prescribed time frame and both are in consideration for the "title." You cannot dismiss one because they both meet the same criteria "printed in the Copper Age."

 

That would be like disqualifying Hulk 1 as a contender for "king of Silver Age" because it has far fewer copies than Amazing Fantasy 15. AF 15 is the clear winner in that instance because of the book's individual value. There are numerous reasons as to why that is including movies and character merchandising, but they aren't factors for exclusion because they aren't the same as the comic of comparison. They were both printed in the "Silver Age" and therefore are both in the "running."

 

Honestly, you aren't even approaching entering into a logical conversation at this point.

Can you logically deny that half the value of a high grade copy of IH 181 is because of the popularity rise to the masses since 2000 movie X-men?

 

Can you logically deny the rise of popularity of TNMT to the movie standard 26 years ago?

 

There were a bunch of people (my family included here) that had no idea who Deadpool even was before this weekend. To deny that tears up this whole argument.

TNMT was a teeny tiny print run. That helps its value and due to the movies starting in 1990 that spring boarded the rise of the brand to what is is today. Do you honestly think this only gives the book a 5 percent jump or something in value?

 

IH 181 is not a rare book but its supply and demand. Why is it so in demand? Its because his character has been available to the masses over time and the 2000 movie and subsequent movies has skyrocketed that popularity.

 

You still make zero sense. What point are you trying to make? I am not logically denying any of it, it all makes sense - all details as to why the books are worth what they are.

 

My only point was that both NM 98 and TMNT 1 should be included in the running for "King of the Copper Age" (IH 181 is a Bronze book). :shrug:

 

Now how you establish the title of "King" is worth discussing, mine (and the industry standard) is by individual book dollar valuation (regardless of how it accrued said value).

 

Are you even reading my posts? Or your own?

The OP you made here was the fact that TNMT was value wise the king and I'm pointing out that has many reasons.

1. Print runs

2. Exposure to the masses with animation, toys, and decades of film to the masses versus one that just had its first.

3. The denial you keep making about why it is the "King" value wise makes no sense. You say its the king because of its price value and when I bring up reasons for it boom you say I'm not logical.

 

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Goldeneye

Goldeneye

Posted
Posted
$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Let's see a generation of new kids is around 3 years when it comes to TV. TMNT since 1987 has been on television is some form almost nonstop since. With a few brief hiatuses in there. That is almost 10 generations of kids watching this show. As adults we want to reclaim our childhood so this comic will always be more valuable then a NM 98. As far as New Mutants 98 maybe 300,000 comics are out there of it. I have seen so many issues of it that I walk away when ever offered. To me it is worth as much as an XMen #1 from the 90s

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

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$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Of course you can compare but it wouldn't be a good comparison. TNMT had a major motion picture back in 1990 (went on to have 3 made and currently getting its second new movie) vs Deadpool's first movie now. I mean come on its in its second movie variation right now. Give Deadpool from movie stand point wise a 26 year head start it'll be a bigger brand that it is right now.

 

What I got from the OP was that a new king might be here.

 

Your comments don't really make sense... Are we supposed to come back in +20 more years to see where Deadpool is at? Will it be a good comparison then or will TMNT still have an edge because it is "older?"

 

They are both from the Copper Age and it is a very good comparison. Regardless the question originally was comparing versus IH 181, is it a bad comparison for that one as well because of all the X-Men and Wolverine movies...?

 

:shrug:

My comment makes perfect sense and here is why.

 

Nobody knew much about TNMT outside of the kids watching the animation shows and toys and a few in the comic genre but when the movie hit in 1990 everyone knew who they were. The MASSES have know about them for at least 26 years now.

 

Deadpool was only know to the masses since Friday. That is a huge difference in comparing 2 brands from the copper age when encompassing all forms of media, advertisement, and exposure.

 

Ask yourself would IH 181 be valuable without Jackman and the X-men movies? Sure. Would it be worth what it is going for because of this heck no.

 

No, they don't. You argument is derived on your perceived value the original TMNT movie had on that franchise and the amount of time between now and then versus Deadpool just now getting his own movie. Those are important factors as to why a book is valued as it is, but not reasons to exclude them.

 

The timeline and their respective impact does not change the discussion at hand: which book is the "king of the copper age?" Regardless of when during the "age" it was printed and the length of time since "mass appeal" was reached, doesn't change the perameters of the discussion. Both books were printed in the prescribed time frame and both are in consideration for the "title." You cannot dismiss one because they both meet the same criteria "printed in the Copper Age."

 

That would be like disqualifying Hulk 1 as a contender for "king of Silver Age" because it has far fewer copies than Amazing Fantasy 15. AF 15 is the clear winner in that instance because of the book's individual value. There are numerous reasons as to why that is including movies and character merchandising, but they aren't factors for exclusion because they aren't the same as the comic of comparison. They were both printed in the "Silver Age" and therefore are both in the "running."

 

Honestly, you aren't even approaching entering into a logical conversation at this point.

Can you logically deny that half the value of a high grade copy of IH 181 is because of the popularity rise to the masses since 2000 movie X-men?

 

Can you logically deny the rise of popularity of TNMT to the movie standard 26 years ago?

 

There were a bunch of people (my family included here) that had no idea who Deadpool even was before this weekend. To deny that tears up this whole argument.

TNMT was a teeny tiny print run. That helps its value and due to the movies starting in 1990 that spring boarded the rise of the brand to what is is today. Do you honestly think this only gives the book a 5 percent jump or something in value?

 

IH 181 is not a rare book but its supply and demand. Why is it so in demand? Its because his character has been available to the masses over time and the 2000 movie and subsequent movies has skyrocketed that popularity.

 

You still make zero sense. What point are you trying to make? I am not logically denying any of it, it all makes sense - all details as to why the books are worth what they are.

 

My only point was that both NM 98 and TMNT 1 should be included in the running for "King of the Copper Age" (IH 181 is a Bronze book). :shrug:

 

Now how you establish the title of "King" is worth discussing, mine (and the industry standard) is by individual book dollar valuation (regardless of how it accrued said value).

 

Are you even reading my posts? Or your own?

The OP you made here was the fact that TNMT was value wise the king and I'm pointing out that has many reasons.

1. Print runs

2. Exposure to the masses with animation, toys, and decades of film to the masses versus one that just had its first.

3. The denial you keep making about why it is the "King" value wise makes no sense. You say its the king because of its price value and when I bring up reasons for it boom you say I'm not logical.

 

What are you taking about? Seriously, what is your point?

 

I would claim that TMNT is the king for the reasons stated above and many more.

 

What in the world are you talking about?

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oakman29

oakman29

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Posted
$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Let's see a generation of new kids is around 3 years when it comes to TV. TMNT since 1987 has been on television is some form almost nonstop since. With a few brief hiatuses in there. That is almost 10 generations of kids watching this show. As adults we want to reclaim our childhood so this comic will always be more valuable then a NM 98. As far as New Mutants 98 maybe 300,000 comics are out there of it. I have seen so many issues of it that I walk away when ever offered. To me it is worth as much as an XMen #1 from the 90s

 

Well I know my 2 and 6 year old loves the turtles.That's a whole new generation of kids growing up on them. They will be around for quite sometime.

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

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Posted
$150 million weekend.

Time to crown the new Copper King.

 

It still isn't anywhere near TMNT 1 in value...

 

Or in overall merchandising, reach or fan base...

 

There really still is no comparison.

You can't really compare a print run on something like TNMT I mean it was a independent art house book before it got massive print runs later. Then it was pumped all over media.

 

Of course you can - King of the Copper age includes all comics published within the Copper age. It is pretty cut dry.

 

FYI - rarity is not the only thing driving price up on TMNT 1 just like a ridiculous abundance of copies on NM 98 doesn't seem to be driving down price either.

Let's see a generation of new kids is around 3 years when it comes to TV. TMNT since 1987 has been on television is some form almost nonstop since. With a few brief hiatuses in there. That is almost 10 generations of kids watching this show. As adults we want to reclaim our childhood so this comic will always be more valuable then a NM 98. As far as New Mutants 98 maybe 300,000 comics are out there of it. I have seen so many issues of it that I walk away when ever offered. To me it is worth as much as an XMen #1 from the 90s

 

I agree, to me NM 98 is a novelty and the main character is a one-trick pony and only works long term in relation to other characters (other than his origin story). I find it hard to believe that long-term they will be able to make multiple rated R movies with enough material that is actually compelling to keep it alive. I foresee a "Hangover" type situation where the same movie is made over and over...

 

TMNT is a franchise that is in the hearts and minds of generations of people and more to come.

 

There really isn't a contest here.

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BarryAllen

BarryAllen

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I don't think TMNT vs Deadpool necessarily makes sense. The intended audiences are different.

 

:shrug: Yes, that is true. Deadpool's target audience is different than virtually every mainstream hero. What is your point?

 

If we are comparing comics in the Copper Age the criteria for inclusion is the print era.

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