Manufactured Gold

[jkrk]

I'm still stumped by The Bob Simon situation.

 

1)Bob Simon - consigns books to Blazing bob.

2)Storms tells Bob Simon that he has a customer that will buy the books on consingment.

3)Storms customer takes possesion of the books before he pays for the merchadise.

4)The books are sent to a presser and then to CGC to be regraded.

5)The books are then placed on another Comic site for sale at higher grades than the one's received by Simon.

6)Storms is still waiting for payment and will pay Simon when he is paid.

 

Hopefully I have my facts correct. Here are my questions:

 

A)How much time elapsed from Simon sending the books to Storms and the books appearing on Cl's website? I'm thinking that these books weren't submitted to CGC as a walkthrough so how was the process done so quickly? Was it quickly?

 

B)I assume that Bob's customer is a "pro" . He is sophisticated enough to send books to pressers so I can only assume he is involved in the hobby in a major way? I'm still perplexed as to why a pro needs to buy books on consignment? I assume that if Buying and selling of comics is more than a hobby then you have a line of credit somewhere? In any event, I find it hard to understand that once the buyer of books saw the new higher grades he has still failed to pay Simon.

 

C)Since we know that pressing is not restoration (ask CGC) and very few have a problem with disclosed restoration then why didn't Storms buy the books himself and have them pressed? He clearly can grade as well as anyone I've seen. Is pressing books a No, NO? Perhaps the probem is buying books from your customer and having them pressed to higher grades might be frowned upon?

[Foolkiller]

Pressing books is not a No-No. Let's just stop that right here and now. In this limited world of the CGC boards maybe, but certainly not yet.

 

Pressing books is also a risk. There is absolutely NO guarantee you will get an upgrade (at least among the commoners). A board member I know recently had several books pressed (more than a dozen let's say to be safe). Number of upgrades received upon resubmission? ZERO. Work was done by the "most" well known presser.

 

So sometimes just because you want to have a book pressed doesn't mean you want to take the financial risk of pressing a book and then resubbing it and getting zero on your return.

 

Since the board member is not the only example I can think of with pressing and lack of an upgrade, I will simply suggest that I believe some dealers are choosing not to press for not feeling that enough books will come back as winners.

[1koko]

Easy answer.

 

Bob Storms has integrity

 

His customer doesn't.

 

His customer doesn't because he didn't disclose that he comics had been pressed.

 

If his customer didn't think pressing was an issue he should have disclosed it on the ComicLink listings.

 

In terms of the procedure for buying, Bob Storms took his client's credit risk. Failure to pay by his client would have led to Bob Storm's losing money. It is his prerogative to take such risk.

 

For Bob Siman, question should be whether he is happy with the price that was achieved for the sale of his comics. He could have sold the comics on E-bay and they could still have been pressed and listed on ComicLink.

[blazingbob]

I DO NOT buy consignor's books off my website unless the consignor sells them to me. That is a conflict of interest and something I have complained about Heritage for years.

 

C)Since we know that pressing is not restoration (ask CGC) and very few have a problem with disclosed restoration then why didn't Storms buy the books himself and have them pressed? He clearly can grade as well as anyone I've seen. Is pressing books a No, NO? Perhaps the probem is buying books from your customer and having them pressed to higher grades might be frowned upon?

[Red Hook]

Damn friggin' good for you, Bob!

[infinite_comics-migration]

Pressing books is not a No-No.

 

Hopefully, some day it will be...

[namisgr]

I'm still stumped by The Bob Simon situation.

 

1)Bob Simon - consigns books to Blazing bob.

2)Storms tells Bob Simon that he has a customer that will buy the books on consingment.

3)Storms customer takes possesion of the books before he pays for the merchadise.

4)The books are sent to a presser and then to CGC to be regraded.

5)The books are then placed on another Comic site for sale at higher grades than the one's received by Simon.

6)Storms is still waiting for payment and will pay Simon when he is paid.

 

Hopefully I have my facts correct. Here are my questions:

 

A)How much time elapsed from Simon sending the books to Storms and the books appearing on Cl's website? I'm thinking that these books weren't submitted to CGC as a walkthrough so how was the process done so quickly? Was it quickly?

 

B)I assume that Bob's customer is a "pro" . He is sophisticated enough to send books to pressers so I can only assume he is involved in the hobby in a major way? I'm still perplexed as to why a pro needs to buy books on consignment? I assume that if Buying and selling of comics is more than a hobby then you have a line of credit somewhere? In any event, I find it hard to understand that once the buyer of books saw the new higher grades he has still failed to pay Simon.

 

C)Since we know that pressing is not restoration (ask CGC) and very few have a problem with disclosed restoration then why didn't Storms buy the books himself and have them pressed? He clearly can grade as well as anyone I've seen. Is pressing books a No, NO? Perhaps the probem is buying books from your customer and having them pressed to higher grades might be frowned upon?

 

Some factual corrections:

I'm Bob Siman.

 

#2 never happens - 83 slabs were consigned to Highgradecomics; after that, it is Bob that interacts with potential buyers.

 

#3 - the customer, with whom Bob has worked many times in the past, puts a downpayment on 7 or 8 books, with the understanding that the remainder due will be paid by such and such a date in November; the consigner (me) is well aware that Bob will accept time payments.

 

#4 - the books may have been pressed by the buyer and not sent to a third party for pressing

 

#6 - About half of the 83 ASM slabs have been sold already to multiple customers, and excepting the time payment under discussion I have been paid in full for the books that have sold.

 

Now to your questions:

The process was quick, and I've described it already. In less than 3 weeks the books were purchased, cracked/pressed, resubmitted on the Express tier, returned to the buyer and listed on Comiclink and Pedigree

 

The books were not purchased by the resubmitter on consignment. They were purchased via a downpayment and time payment format.

 

The Blazing One does not purchase books from consigners to press and upgrade them (unlike other auction house(s)).

 

One last point is that if you think the buying, cracking, pressing, resubmitting, and reselling of comics is being done by a very few professionals, then I believe you are sorely mistaken.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

George:

I'm going to give you a "Get your head out of your $$$" card because very few of bob's Spidey's sold to this person. In fact almost "all" of the spidey's have sold to collectors.

 

So please do me a favor and stop singing the doom and gloom song when you know absolutely NOTHING about my business sales and who they are to.

 

My apologies...

 

Roughly 20% of the books sold so far went to the Flipper (per the numbers in Namisgr's post).

 

The rest went to collectors who will love and cherish their new treasures.

 

The Market is Alive and Well!

 

(End of the "Blowing Sunshine up BlazingBob's a$$" song).

[namisgr]

[Roughly 20% of the books sold so far went to the Flipper (per the numbers in Namisgr's post).

 

The rest went to collectors who will love and cherish their new treasures.

 

The Market is Alive and Well!

 

(End of the "Blowing Sunshine up BlazingBob's a$$" song).

 

Schmaltzy, but true.

[jkrk]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Roughly 20% of the books sold so far went to the Flipper (per the numbers in Namisgr's post).

 

 

Good now I'm beginning to understand a bit more. Do I understand that the "flipper" bought 8 books (?) from Highgrade to be pressed and then resubmitted to CGC?

 

If true, what percentage of his books regraded to a higher grade?

 

Did the flipper have a great financial risk in this process (note that his submission were the "exppress tier")? I wonder what the flipper believed his success rate would be? Paying an express tier rate could I assume he had a good sense of what to buy? Breakeven's wouldn't cut it.

[Red Hook]

Bob S.....

 

was this one of your books? It was part of the same submission.....

 

What was the original grade? If you tell me it was a 9.6 and someone pressed it.....the world has definitely gone nuts!

 

Brad

 

ASM 73 Mass Pedigree..... 9.8!!!!

[Red Hook]

Actually, I looked it up from Steve Filosa's pedigree submissions......it was originally a 9.6!

 

Imagine....a 9.6 wasn't good enough!

 

See my new thread including scans of both books.

[jkrk]

The Blazing One does not purchase books from consigners to press and upgrade them (unlike other auction house(s)).

 

 

Yes, but does Blazingbob sell books to pressers (not singling out Bob) who attempt to upgrade them and put the books on various auction sites? If pressers buy books directly (?) from sellers then the difference eludes me. I guess the defense would be I didn't know what the buyers intent was?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

The Blazing One does not purchase books from consigners to press and upgrade them (unlike other auction house(s)).

 

 

Yes, but does Blazingbob sell books to pressers (not singling out Bob) who attempt to upgrade them and put the books on various auction sites? If pressers buy books directly (?) from sellers then the difference eludes me. I guess the defense would be I didn't know what the buyers intent was?

 

Please don't drag BlazingBob's good name further into the mud. Their is a little too much "guilt by association" going on here. Bob sold the book. He did his job for his consignor. He isn't the Comic Book Pressing Police and it isn't his job to turn selling comic books into an exercise in Morality.

[jkrk]

Please don't drag BlazingBob's good name further into the mud. Their is a little too much "guilt by association" going on here. Bob sold the book. He did his job for his consignor. He isn't the Comic Book Pressing Police and it isn't his job to turn selling comic books into an exercise in Morality.

 

 

I'm not singling out Bob. If I did I apologize. I believe he is one of the most stand up dealers in the community. I don't believe he did anything wrong. I'm simply trying to understand the philosophical difference between an auction house buying, pressing, and reselling upgrades versus selling books to pressers who will upgrade the books? I keep reading about the auction house's dual interests and sometimes I wonder if they aren't the scapegoat for a frustrating situation.

[Red Hook]

Well, one of the obvious differences is that Bob doesn't profit from the upgrade and sale of such books. The auction house does.

[Sal]

Well, one of the obvious differences is that Bob doesn't profit from the upgrade and sale of such books. The auction house does.

 

really the only difference that matters. if any seller were to police to whom they sell to, i expect that seller wouldn't be making a living for very long.

 

the best we can hope for is that all sellers will disclose any work they are aware of on books they are selling. hopefully, after a time, the pressure will be on all sellers to fully disclose, and we can then round up and shoot the ones who do not comply with our wishes all be happy

[namisgr]

Bob S.....

 

was this one of your books? It was part of the same submission.....

 

What was the original grade? If you tell me it was a 9.6 and someone pressed it.....the world has definitely gone nuts!

 

Brad

 

ASM 73 Mass Pedigree..... 9.8!!!!

 

Yes, this was one of my books, a 9.6 old label. Resubmitted in the same batch of books as the upgraded ASM 21, 46, 68, 72, 86 and Annual 3.

[FFB]

Bob S.....

 

was this one of your books? It was part of the same submission.....

 

What was the original grade? If you tell me it was a 9.6 and someone pressed it.....the world has definitely gone nuts!

 

Brad

 

ASM 73 Mass Pedigree..... 9.8!!!!

 

Yes, this was one of my books, a 9.6 old label. Resubmitted in the same batch of books as the upgraded ASM 21, 46, 68, 72, 86 and Annual 3.

 

Did you think the book had a shot at 9.8 when you owned it?

[tth2]

namisgr might get his money in 2008 at that rate

 

First off, I owe Bob a public apology for bringing him into this thread. I am extremely happy with our consignment deal - the books have been selling remarkably briskly, I am getting the prices I want for them, the conditions for the transaction were all defined by Bob clearly before we agreed to do business, I am being paid via a schedule that is superior to the one used routinely by Comiclink and other sites, and the customers are very satisfied with Bob as evidenced by feedback I have received from a fellow board member who was a buyer. I decided to sell the Spideys through Bob because among the many consignment choices, I frankly trust him the most. This trust has been more than borne out by the high quality of our transaction. As an aside, he also realizes outstanding prices for many of the books he sells, and this has been true as well of my transaction.

 

I have two reasons for discussing our transaction on these boards. The breadth, speed, and financing of the crack/press/resubmission procedure was a relevation to me, and I wanted to let everyone know how the game is being played. Secondly, I believe in DISCLOSURE, and wanted prospective buyers of these books listed on the Link and Pedigree to know that these books had previously received lower CGC grades, and were highly likely to have been pressed prior to their resubmission and current offering.

Well said, Bob!