Manufactured Gold

[Sal]

[ciorac]

Won't answer your statement?

 

I'm so pissed off reading this *spoon* from you guys I'm beginning to wonder why I even stay on these boards. None of you ever give a good customers books before he's paid in full? I've known this customer over 10 years. He made a deposit and if he defaults I will pay Bob out of my own pocket. And quite frankly having "how I run my business" discussed on the boards is a bit uncalled for. In almost all cases of timepayments I have the books until they are paid for. In this case I "trust" the buyer will pay when he states. If the books weren't pressed this wouldn't even be discussed.

 

As for declaring this on my website what would you like stated.

 

Consignment books could be up for sale on another site in higher grades before you are paid for your books.

 

Bob,

 

Bill Ponseti here, you know the cure for this don't you??? I told you in Chicago!

[action1kid]

It's not about trying to blame Bob Storms or Bob Siman for any of this, it's simply trying to point out that there's a bit of an illusory "feel good about yourself" factor for selling through a "good" dealer. It's like rationalizing that it's okay to drive to work instead of carpooling or taking public transport because you've bought yourself a hybrid.

 

Only thing is, Tim, that it's not illusory. Consigning books to a trusted seller, one whose business practices you respect and wish to support, is a tangible action on behalf of the hobby.

 

I was thinking, what is to stop a dealer from doing this?

You consign a book with a dealer for say 10,000 dollars.He gets a 10% comission cut.Un be known to you the dealer asks for 15,000 from an unknown buyer[and gets it! He gives you 9000.00 dollars with commission deducted and pockets the other 5000.00 for himself.What safeguard is built in to stop something like that from happening because I dont see it !

At least at an auction house you can SEE the bidding process.

With a dealer, should you insist on knowing who the buyer is as that would at least be a safeguard to be takin advantage of in this way.

[FFB]

It's not about trying to blame Bob Storms or Bob Siman for any of this, it's simply trying to point out that there's a bit of an illusory "feel good about yourself" factor for selling through a "good" dealer. It's like rationalizing that it's okay to drive to work instead of carpooling or taking public transport because you've bought yourself a hybrid.

 

Only thing is, Tim, that it's not illusory. Consigning books to a trusted seller, one whose business practices you respect and wish to support, is a tangible action on behalf of the hobby.

 

I was thinking, what is to stop a dealer from doing this?

You consign a book with a dealer for say 10,000 dollars.He gets a 10% comission cut.Un be known to you the dealer asks for 15,000 from an unknown buyer[and gets it! He gives you 9000.00 dollars with commission deducted and pockets the other 5000.00 for himself.What safeguard is built in to stop something like that from happening because I dont see it !

At least at an auction house you can SEE the bidding process.

With a dealer, should you insist on knowing who the buyer is as that would at least be a safeguard to be takin advantage of in this way.

 

For expensive books (where this is most likely to occur), I would think that chances are high that the buyer would eventually talk to the consignor and they'd find out what happened. Then the seller would be in deep doo doo.

[action1kid]

Well, the seller would 1st have to be suspicious for that to happen,right.Suppose hes not suspicious?

[action1kid]

The seller being the actual seller.Not the consigner.

 

Oh, I see your were referring to the buyer, sorry

[THE_BEYONDER]

 

[shadroch]

It's not about trying to blame Bob Storms or Bob Siman for any of this, it's simply trying to point out that there's a bit of an illusory "feel good about yourself" factor for selling through a "good" dealer. It's like rationalizing that it's okay to drive to work instead of carpooling or taking public transport because you've bought yourself a hybrid.

 

Only thing is, Tim, that it's not illusory. Consigning books to a trusted seller, one whose business practices you respect and wish to support, is a tangible action on behalf of the hobby.

 

I was thinking, what is to stop a dealer from doing this?

You consign a book with a dealer for say 10,000 dollars.He gets a 10% comission cut.Un be known to you the dealer asks for 15,000 from an unknown buyer[and gets it! He gives you 9000.00 dollars with commission deducted and pockets the other 5000.00 for himself.What safeguard is built in to stop something like that from happening because I dont see it !

At least at an auction house you can SEE the bidding process.

With a dealer, should you insist on knowing who the buyer is as that would at least be a safeguard to be takin advantage of in this way.

 

There is nothing to stop a dealer from doing this,

Except for the huge hit the dealer would get if this was to be discovered.

Thats why folks like to go thru dealers with impeccable reputations.And dealers get that sort of reputation by not doing underhanded deals like the one you ask about.

[MasterChief]

To be sure, the unscrupulous manipulation of our hobby’s certified collectables has not been without the emergence of its own startling and worrisome side effects.

 

Aside from the approach to create a ‘new supply’ of higher graded material which has the potential to seriously destabilize the Golden Age market and impact the value of current collections, the intentional erasure of comic book history is clearly taking an unfortunate and troubling toll on the essence of our beloved pastime.

 

Whether erasure stems in the form of removing distributor’s marks, arrival dates, distinguishing traits, or pedigree, file copy, and collection designations, the witless sanitation of these historical ‘brands’ is destroying a cohesive genealogical link to the nostalgic past.

 

***************

 

Blackhawk #9 (nee Crowley Copy)

 

Just six months after its initial purchase, this Crowley Copy lost its pedigree designation as a consequence of an apparent manipulation resubmission.

 

Originally auctioned on July 7, 2002 as a Very Fine (8.0) with several noticeable cover folds, the copy resold six-months later on December 7, 2002 as a Very Fine+ (8.5) without its pedigree designation or the obvious defects which accompanied its original appearance.

 

On September 22, 2005 the book was re-certified for a third time and awarded a grade of Very Fine/Near Mint (9.0). It failed to sell at auction eight months later as three-bidders were unwilling to meet the auction reserve.

 

Both serial numbers imprinted on the second and third CGC labels are currently searchable in the Collectors’ Society certification database. The second number (0044748013) needs to be deleted to reflect an accurate population report.

 

Certification/Resale Provenance:

 

 

Resource Links:

 

Blackhawk #9 (8.0) Crowley Copy

Blackhawk #9 (8.5)

Blackhawk #9 (9.0)

 

Images:

 

 

 

.jpg' alt='rolleyes.gif' alt='9_9'>.jpg'>

 

 

 

---

 

Crown Comics #1 (nee Big Apple)

 

The first publicly recorded auction for this Big Apple pedigree copy with slight rear cover wear was July 7, 2002. Advertised as Near Mint (9.4) with Off-White to White pages, the book sold for 3X its advertised fair market value as 5 bidders drove the final bid to $1092.

 

Six-months later the book reappeared at auction less any appreciable cover wear. Re-certified a Near Mint+ (9.6) with White pages, the copy’s rightful pedigree designation, however, did not adorn its new blue Universal label. Advertised as the best copy graded to date, the book realized a 24% loss from its original take.

 

The current 9.6 version of Crown Comics #1 (0044750006) was certified on October 24, 2002. The original 9.4 Big Apple version (0056450018) is no longer searchable in the certification database.

 

Certification/Resale Provenance:

 

 

Resource Links:

 

Crown Comics #1 (9.4) Big Apple

Crown Comics #1 (9.6)

 

Images:

 

 

 

 

 

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Adventure Comics #100 (nee Big Apple)

 

This particular pedigree copy of Adventure Comics #100 has quite the history since its initial encapsulation. Placed on the auctioning block no less than six times over the course of a four-year period, it recently sold for 2X guide even without its branded designation.

 

Originally sold in the summer of 2002 as a Very Fine+ (8.5) copy with a prominent bundling ridge on the top-edge of the front cover, the Big Apple copy was won by an individual who out bid five others with an offer of $1064.

 

Six-months later the copy reemerged at auction in census topping Near Mint (9.4) condition; three grades higher than the previous version. What was more, the copy no longer displayed the bundling ridge or the pedigree designation which honored its original blue label. Two bidders competed for book ownership as it finally sold $2300.

 

Currently the highest graded copy to date, the manufactured Near Mint (9.4) version of Adventure Comics #100 (0069341012) was graded on March 23, 2003. The original Big Apple version (0056499002) is not searchable having been deleted from the population database.

 

Certification/Resale Provenance:

 

 

Resource Links:

 

Adventure Comics #100 (8.5) Big Apple

Adventure Comics #100 (9.4)

 

Images:

 

 

 

 

 

 

---

 

Military Comics #7 (nee San Francisco)

 

Arguably from one the highest quality collections know to exist, here is a copy that used to carry the coveted pedigree moniker also known as Tom Reilly.

 

Purchased in July of 2003 for a fraction of its Overstreet Value, this Near Mint- (9.2) copy of Military Comics #7 with White pages was the highest of three graded copies certified to date by CGC.

 

Eleven months later the book returned to auction bearing a new label with a grade of Near Mint+ (9.6). Although the San Francisco brand had been removed – in addition to minor soiling on the rear cover – it was advertised as such and ended up recording a 376% gain over its previous sale.

 

The lost San Francisco copy of Military Comics #7 (0040474006) clearly outranks the other two copies currently populating the CGC census, as the grade of those two issues is 5.5 and 5.0 respectfully.

 

The original San Francisco copy of Military Comics #7 (0062556013) is no longer searchable in the Collectors’ Society certification database.         

 

Certification/Resale Provenance:

 

 

Resource Links:

 

Military Comics #7 (9.2) San Francisco

Military Comics #7 (9.6)

 

Images:

 

 

[tth2]

Wow, great work. Methinks the "Lost Pedigree Committee" is going to be busy.

[FFB]

Wow, great work. Methinks the "Lost Pedigree Committee" is going to be busy.

 

Do we really need a Lost Pedigree Committee for these books? They're obviously the same books as before. Just recall them and relabel them.

 

Nice work, Masterchief.

[tth2]

Wow, great work. Methinks the "Lost Pedigree Committee" is going to be busy.

 

Do we really need a Lost Pedigree Committee for these books? They're obviously the same books as before. Just recall them and relabel them.

 

Nice work, Masterchief.

I know. It's just that they're the "official" liaisons with CGC to notify them of the lost pedigrees.

[Red Hook]

Yeah...as FFB sez....it's totally obvious. But the "committee" will formally notification to Steve.

 

I love these posts by the Chief, but I hate to see this stuff at the same time.

 

Red

[arexcrooke]

Wow, great work. Methinks the "Lost Pedigree Committee" is going to be busy.

 

Do we really need a Lost Pedigree Committee for these books? They're obviously the same books as before. Just recall them and relabel them.

 

Nice work, Masterchief.

Anybody thought that the by product of the crack/press/slab/forgetthe pedigreedesignation game is to slip a book by, then send it back at a higher grade and THEN get the ped designation put back on

higher grade book plus a ped

[Red Hook]

That would probably necessitate the need to eventually return the original pedigree label to CGC, so the old grade could be "disappeared". I guess that would be part of the process....but attempting to reacquire the pedigree designation would be an identification flare sent up that the seller would probably not want to deal with. So I would just hypothesize that in many cases the seller doesn't give a hoot about the pedigree designation being retained.

[mica]

Wow, great work. Methinks the "Lost Pedigree Committee" is going to be busy.

 

Do we really need a Lost Pedigree Committee for these books? They're obviously the same books as before. Just recall them and relabel them.

 

Nice work, Masterchief.

I know. It's just that they're the "official" liaisons with CGC to notify them of the lost pedigrees.

There's plenty of time for that later. First thing we need to do is find out who forum member X889-3~ghty4 is.

[FFB]

Yeah...as FFB sez....it's totally obvious. But the "committee" will formally notification to Steve.

 

I love these posts by the Chief, but I hate to see this stuff at the same time.

 

Red

 

I'm definitely not trying to step on toes; it's just that these are so clear that I can't imagine anyone could dispute them.

[Red Hook]

I, of course, mean "officially notify" Steve.....

 

[backtomarvel]

Haven't I seen some kind of comic police badge awarded to folks on the boards for their detective work on tracking books and such? If MasterChief doesn't have one, dude deserves a Gold Shield. Great work

[Red Hook]

We might have to give him a "Lifetime Achievment" award.