Manufactured Gold

[nearmint]

The fact that CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is not based on their fallacies as human beings, but understandably on the profits that they derive from the practice.

 

There are 3010 certified copies of Hulk 181. How in the world is CGC supposed to determine when another copy is submitted whether they've already certified it or not?

[FFB]

I think your banana is pretty melodramatic.

 

You think Scott has a melodramatic banana?

 

[Ze-man]

Wow Mark, ease back a little bit I think your point would be made without that fourth paragraph to be honest with you..

 

I understand it was not meant in anyway shape or form as a direct comaparision to Matt, but it was pretty severe.

 

Only to those people who don't know how to separate oranges from apples Kenny.

 

Is there no way to make any point on these boards without having someone get their dress ruffled even though a post makes the intent and qualification quite clear?

 

You guys slay me sometimes.

 

Who's dress was ruffled?

 

I just thought graphic depictions of WWII were not really needed to get your point over.And said so. No ruffling, or skirt crumpling at all.

 

You will KNOW when my skirt is ruffled, and, or panties become bunched!

 

 

Ze-

[carcrawfordfan]

I fully understand the motives behind it, but it obviously isn't something that would have to be encouraged. If you had an undergraded book (in your opinion), would someone have to coax you into having it regraded?? Anyone with the desire and balls to crack it out would make an attempt to obtain said higher grade. I am not arguing that CGC would not want this to happen as many times as possible. I just do not understand what CGC would possibly state about this practice. It is simply the art of grading. It is not an exact science and never will be. This is simply common sense and does not need be stated. I respect you in the industry and agree with you on a number of issues...just not this one.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I fully understand the motives behind it, but it obviously isn't something that would have to be encouraged. If you had an undergraded book (in your opinion), would someone have to coax you into having it regraded?? Anyone with the desire and balls to crack it out would make an attempt to obtain said higher grade. I am not arguing that CGC would not want this to happen as many times as possible. I just do not understand what CGC would possibly state about this practice. It is simply the art of grading. It is not an exact science and never will be. This is simply common sense and does not need be stated. I respect you in the industry and agree with you on a number of issues...just not this one.

 

I've sat at more then one lunch/dinner with Steve Borock where he used the following phrase (I'm paraphrasing):

 

"...all you hear at coin shows is the crack of slabs."

 

This was in reference to the resub game played for years in the coin hobby, and the same game he believed would occur in comics. And he was right. Steve has openly admitted this. CGC probably has a certain percentage of their business plan devoted to the revenue expected from resubs. From a business perspective, it makes perfect sense.

 

Do they advertise the possibiltiy of resubs? No, they don't have to. They know that Greed (buying at one grade and selling at a higher grade) and Ego ("I own the Best!") will keep people resubbing for years to come.

[esquirecomics]

The fact that CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is not based on their fallacies as human beings, but understandably on the profits that they derive from the practice.

 

There are 3010 certified copies of Hulk 181. How in the world is CGC supposed to determine when another copy is submitted whether they've already certified it or not?

 

There is likely no possible way using your example, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the point that was being discussed.

[mrwoogieman]

This thread has gotten much more bearable now that I scroll through quickly and stop only on a new MasterChief post. It's fun and easy!

[nearmint]

The fact that CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is not based on their fallacies as human beings, but understandably on the profits that they derive from the practice.

 

There are 3010 certified copies of Hulk 181. How in the world is CGC supposed to determine when another copy is submitted whether they've already certified it or not?

 

There is likely no possible way using your example, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the point that was being discussed.

 

Now that's the silliest thing you've said all day. The discussion of why CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is completely moot, as it would be virtually impossible for them to not permit it.

[esquirecomics]

The fact that CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is not based on their fallacies as human beings, but understandably on the profits that they derive from the practice.

 

There are 3010 certified copies of Hulk 181. How in the world is CGC supposed to determine when another copy is submitted whether they've already certified it or not?

 

There is likely no possible way using your example, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the point that was being discussed.

 

Now that's the silliest thing you've said all day. The discussion of why CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is completely moot, as it would be virtually impossible for them to not permit it.

 

So the multitude of HG pedigree copies that have passed through their hands on different occasions is not trackable?

 

In any event, we were not talking solutions to the issue, we were talking about the fact that it is promoted quietly rather than overtly and the impact that has in creating certain views.

[FFB]

The fact that CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is not based on their fallacies as human beings, but understandably on the profits that they derive from the practice.

 

There are 3010 certified copies of Hulk 181. How in the world is CGC supposed to determine when another copy is submitted whether they've already certified it or not?

 

There is likely no possible way using your example, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the point that was being discussed.

 

Now that's the silliest thing you've said all day. The discussion of why CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is completely moot, as it would be virtually impossible for them to not permit it.

 

So the multitude of HG pedigree copies that have passed through their hands on different occasions is not trackable?

 

In any event, we were not talking solutions to the issue, we were talking about the fact that it is promoted quietly rather than overtly and the impact that has in creating certain views.

 

What is CGC supposed to do? Advertise on their website, "Hey, our 9.4 today isn't necessarily our 9.4 tomorrow! Send your book back in for grading and see if you might have a 9.6!"

 

Get real.

[infinite_comics-migration]

The fact that CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is not based on their fallacies as human beings, but understandably on the profits that they derive from the practice.

 

There are 3010 certified copies of Hulk 181. How in the world is CGC supposed to determine when another copy is submitted whether they've already certified it or not?

 

There is likely no possible way using your example, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the point that was being discussed.

 

Now that's the silliest thing you've said all day. The discussion of why CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is completely moot, as it would be virtually impossible for them to not permit it.

 

So the multitude of HG pedigree copies that have passed through their hands on different occasions is not trackable?

 

In any event, we were not talking solutions to the issue, we were talking about the fact that it is promoted quietly rather than overtly and the impact that has in creating certain views.

 

What is CGC supposed to do? Advertise on their website, "Hey, our 9.4 today isn't necessarily our 9.4 tomorrow! Send your book back in for grading and see if you might have a 9.6!"

 

Get real.

 

They should advertise it like this:

 

 

...but change it to: "Book X originally was a 9.2, sold for $100. After a re-sub, it graded at 9.4 and sold for $300!"

[Filter81]

The fact that CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is not based on their fallacies as human beings, but understandably on the profits that they derive from the practice.

 

There are 3010 certified copies of Hulk 181. How in the world is CGC supposed to determine when another copy is submitted whether they've already certified it or not?

 

There is likely no possible way using your example, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the point that was being discussed.

 

Now that's the silliest thing you've said all day. The discussion of why CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is completely moot, as it would be virtually impossible for them to not permit it.

 

So the multitude of HG pedigree copies that have passed through their hands on different occasions is not trackable?

 

In any event, we were not talking solutions to the issue, we were talking about the fact that it is promoted quietly rather than overtly and the impact that has in creating certain views.

 

What is CGC supposed to do? Advertise on their website, "Hey, our 9.4 today isn't necessarily our 9.4 tomorrow! Send your book back in for grading and see if you might have a 9.6!"

 

Get real.

 

I don't want to speak for anyone else but I doubt that's what Mark is saying.

 

Do you really not see a difference between someone taking a 9.2 and resubmitting it to try to get a 9.4 because they feel it was graded harshly, and someone taking a 6.5 restored and turning it into a 7.5 unrestored?

 

Personally, I have no problem with people resubmitting to CGC. If someone wants to take a shot and turn their 9.4 into a 9.6, good for them.

 

But when certain people have known that CGC does not consider disassembly to be restoration for the past 5+ years, and the rest of us just learned about it last week... or when certain people have a 50% success rate in trying to send a book in for a resub and a select few have a 98% success rate, that's a different animal alltogether.

 

Personally if I knew that any blue label CGC book could potentially be cleaned, pressed, disassembled, & had its staples replaced, leading to a possible increase in grade of up to 5 full points on a 10 point scale, it certainly would've impacted how much money I would've spent on certain books.

 

To compare some of these practices to someone innocently trying to get a half grade bump because they feel a book was graded too harshly is like comparing apples to H-bombs.

[MasterChief]

I don't want to speak for anyone else but I doubt that's what Mark is saying.

 

Do you really not see a difference between someone taking a 9.2 and resubmitting it to try to get a 9.4 because they feel it was graded harshly, and someone taking a 6.5 restored and turning it into a 7.5 unrestored?

 

Personally, I have no problem with people resubmitting to CGC. If someone wants to take a shot and turn their 9.4 into a 9.6, good for them.

 

But when certain people have known that CGC does not consider disassembly to be restoration for the past 5+ years, and the rest of us just learned about it last week... or when certain people have a 50% success rate in trying to send a book in for a resub and a select few have a 98% success rate, that's a different animal alltogether.

 

Personally if I knew that any blue label CGC book could potentially be cleaned, pressed, disassembled, & had its staples replaced, leading to a possible increase in grade of up to 5 full points on a 10 point scale, it certainly would've impacted how much money I would've spent on certain books.

 

To compare some of these practices to someone innocently trying to get a half grade bump because they feel a book was graded too harshly is like comparing apples to H-bombs.

 

Agreed!

 

Resubmitting a book because you question the grade is one thing.

 

Resubmitting a book because the condition was manipulated in the shadows is altogether different.

[FFB]

The fact that CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is not based on their fallacies as human beings, but understandably on the profits that they derive from the practice.

 

There are 3010 certified copies of Hulk 181. How in the world is CGC supposed to determine when another copy is submitted whether they've already certified it or not?

 

There is likely no possible way using your example, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the point that was being discussed.

 

Now that's the silliest thing you've said all day. The discussion of why CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is completely moot, as it would be virtually impossible for them to not permit it.

 

So the multitude of HG pedigree copies that have passed through their hands on different occasions is not trackable?

 

In any event, we were not talking solutions to the issue, we were talking about the fact that it is promoted quietly rather than overtly and the impact that has in creating certain views.

 

What is CGC supposed to do? Advertise on their website, "Hey, our 9.4 today isn't necessarily our 9.4 tomorrow! Send your book back in for grading and see if you might have a 9.6!"

 

Get real.

 

I don't want to speak for anyone else but I doubt that's what Mark is saying.

 

Do you really not see a difference between someone taking a 9.2 and resubmitting it to try to get a 9.4 because they feel it was graded harshly, and someone taking a 6.5 restored and turning it into a 7.5 unrestored?

 

Of course there's a difference. The first one involves a book that hasn't been pressed and the second one does, along with the scraping away of color touch. The distinction has little bearing on what I was talking about though, which is Mark's statement that CGC should somehow advertise that people can resubmit their books. It's this paternalistic attitude again, as if somehow CGC collectors are too stupid to realize that they can crack their books out and resubmit them for higher grades.

 

Personally, I have no problem with people resubmitting to CGC. If someone wants to take a shot and turn their 9.4 into a 9.6, good for them.

 

But when certain people have known that CGC does not consider disassembly to be restoration for the past 5+ years, and the rest of us just learned about it last week... or when certain people have a 50% success rate in trying to send a book in for a resub and a select few have a 98% success rate, that's a different animal alltogether.

 

Personally if I knew that any blue label CGC book could potentially be cleaned, pressed, disassembled, & had its staples replaced, leading to a possible increase in grade of up to 5 full points on a 10 point scale, it certainly would've impacted how much money I would've spent on certain books.

 

To compare some of these practices to someone innocently trying to get a half grade bump because they feel a book was graded too harshly is like comparing apples to H-bombs.

 

It's not my comparison. I was just asking what CGC's "overt promotion" of the resub game was supposed to look like.

[FFB]

I don't want to speak for anyone else but I doubt that's what Mark is saying.

 

Do you really not see a difference between someone taking a 9.2 and resubmitting it to try to get a 9.4 because they feel it was graded harshly, and someone taking a 6.5 restored and turning it into a 7.5 unrestored?

 

Personally, I have no problem with people resubmitting to CGC. If someone wants to take a shot and turn their 9.4 into a 9.6, good for them.

 

But when certain people have known that CGC does not consider disassembly to be restoration for the past 5+ years, and the rest of us just learned about it last week... or when certain people have a 50% success rate in trying to send a book in for a resub and a select few have a 98% success rate, that's a different animal alltogether.

 

Personally if I knew that any blue label CGC book could potentially be cleaned, pressed, disassembled, & had its staples replaced, leading to a possible increase in grade of up to 5 full points on a 10 point scale, it certainly would've impacted how much money I would've spent on certain books.

 

To compare some of these practices to someone innocently trying to get a half grade bump because they feel a book was graded too harshly is like comparing apples to H-bombs.

 

Agreed!

 

Resubmitting a book because you question the grade is one thing.

 

Resubmitting a book because the condition was manipulated in the shadows is altogether different.

 

Hurray! You've both managed to miss my point entirely!

[THE_BEYONDER]

How about a little notation on the back of the label that reads:

 

Things ignored upon submission: Pressing, Disassembly, Staple Replacement & Restoration Removal

 

 

[MasterChief]

I don't want to speak for anyone else but I doubt that's what Mark is saying.

 

Do you really not see a difference between someone taking a 9.2 and resubmitting it to try to get a 9.4 because they feel it was graded harshly, and someone taking a 6.5 restored and turning it into a 7.5 unrestored?

 

Personally, I have no problem with people resubmitting to CGC. If someone wants to take a shot and turn their 9.4 into a 9.6, good for them.

 

But when certain people have known that CGC does not consider disassembly to be restoration for the past 5+ years, and the rest of us just learned about it last week... or when certain people have a 50% success rate in trying to send a book in for a resub and a select few have a 98% success rate, that's a different animal alltogether.

 

Personally if I knew that any blue label CGC book could potentially be cleaned, pressed, disassembled, & had its staples replaced, leading to a possible increase in grade of up to 5 full points on a 10 point scale, it certainly would've impacted how much money I would've spent on certain books.

 

To compare some of these practices to someone innocently trying to get a half grade bump because they feel a book was graded too harshly is like comparing apples to H-bombs.

 

Agreed!

 

Resubmitting a book because you question the grade is one thing.

 

Resubmitting a book because the condition was manipulated in the shadows is altogether different.

 

Hurray! You've both managed to miss my point entirely!

 

I didn’t miss your point – I was agreeing with what Filter wrote regarding the distinction of the two.

 

As far as your comment goes...It would be absurd for any service oriented business to advertise in the manner which you suggest.

[nearmint]

The fact that CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is not based on their fallacies as human beings, but understandably on the profits that they derive from the practice.

 

There are 3010 certified copies of Hulk 181. How in the world is CGC supposed to determine when another copy is submitted whether they've already certified it or not?

 

There is likely no possible way using your example, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the point that was being discussed.

 

Now that's the silliest thing you've said all day. The discussion of why CGC has chosen to permit resubmission is completely moot, as it would be virtually impossible for them to not permit it.

 

So the multitude of HG pedigree copies that have passed through their hands on different occasions is not trackable?

 

In any event, we were not talking solutions to the issue, we were talking about the fact that it is promoted quietly rather than overtly and the impact that has in creating certain views.

 

When the "multitudes" of HG pedigree copies are compared to the vast number of non-pedigrees submitted, your multitudes become a drop in the bucket, and I'm talking a very large bucket.

 

I can't figure out what you want when it comes to the resub issue. You say you weren't talking about solutions, so what's the point of discussing it? I agree with other posters that resubbing is so obvious that there's no need for CGC to promote it. The idea that they've "quietly promoted it" is pure supposition on your part, and shouldn't be stated as fact.

[mica]

CGC collectors are too stupid to realize that they can crack their books out and resubmit them for higher grades.

[FFB]

CGC collectors are too stupid to realize that they can crack their books out and resubmit them for higher grades.

 

If you're going to quote me, quote the whole sentence. Don't quote part of the sentence that makes it look like I've said the opposite of what I actually said.