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Drawing with names and numbers on cover

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First of all, let me qualify this post by saying I would not pay 1% of the asking price to own this book – and it’s partially because of the label it was designated with:

 

MARVEL AUTHENTIX: DAREDEVIL #1 (sorry, picture is too large to cut and paste)

 

Up on Comiclink today, there’s an interesting little specimen: a Dynamic Forces Marvel Authentix Coll. Ed. Daredevil #1 (vol. 2), signed by Quasada and Palmiotti and numbered. It is in a green qualified CGC label with this note: “drawing with names and numbers on cover.” What is this??? Is it written in some ancient lost language that we can no longer interpret? For God’s sake, we all know there’s a Daredevil head sketch on the cover, and can clearly read the signatures, Quesada and Pamiottii. To me, the note seems to be a way of invalidating the sketch and signatures on the book. I mean, it is a DF signed edition - it’s not a fake. Can’t a book like this be given a blue label with a note that states “Marvel Authentix Sketch Edition” instead? The current label undercuts the value of the book, even though graded a 9.9 (yowser!).

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First of all, let me qualify this post by saying I would not pay 1% of the asking price to own this book – and it’s partially because of the label it was designated with:

 

MARVEL AUTHENTIX: DAREDEVIL #1 (sorry, picture is too large to cut and paste)

 

Up on Comiclink today, there’s an interesting little specimen: a Dynamic Forces Marvel Authentix Coll. Ed. Daredevil #1 (vol. 2), signed by Quasada and Palmiotti and numbered. It is in a green qualified CGC label with this note: “drawing with names and numbers on cover.” What is this??? Is it written in some ancient lost language that we can no longer interpret? For God’s sake, we all know there’s a Daredevil head sketch on the cover, and can clearly read the signatures, Quesada and Pamiottii. To me, the note seems to be a way of invalidating the sketch and signatures on the book. I mean, it is a DF signed edition - it’s not a fake. Can’t a book like this be given a blue label with a note that states “Marvel Authentix Sketch Edition” instead? The current label undercuts the value of the book, even though graded a 9.9 (yowser!).

 

If it's not witnessed by a Signature Series person when signed, it's put in a qualified label and noted as you said.

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First of all, let me qualify this post by saying I would not pay 1% of the asking price to own this book – and it’s partially because of the label it was designated with:

 

MARVEL AUTHENTIX: DAREDEVIL #1 (sorry, picture is too large to cut and paste)

 

Up on Comiclink today, there’s an interesting little specimen: a Dynamic Forces Marvel Authentix Coll. Ed. Daredevil #1 (vol. 2), signed by Quasada and Palmiotti and numbered. It is in a green qualified CGC label with this note: “drawing with names and numbers on cover.” What is this??? Is it written in some ancient lost language that we can no longer interpret? For God’s sake, we all know there’s a Daredevil head sketch on the cover, and can clearly read the signatures, Quesada and Pamiottii. To me, the note seems to be a way of invalidating the sketch and signatures on the book. I mean, it is a DF signed edition - it’s not a fake. Can’t a book like this be given a blue label with a note that states “Marvel Authentix Sketch Edition” instead? The current label undercuts the value of the book, even though graded a 9.9 (yowser!).

 

I have to agree with your summation. If a reputable firm (other than CGC) has authenticated the signature of a comic book artist/writer, then why shouldn't CGC accept it as authentic and give it a Signature Series label? I know, I know....it would supposedly open up too many opportunities for employees of these reputable firms to make some money under the table. But you would think that CGC could verify through the company (such as Dynamic Forces) that the signature was authentic. WAY TOO MANY authentic signatures are being ignored just because a CGC representative wasn't present when it was signed. Ticks me off too because I have a decent number of signed comics that have certificates of authenticity that are totally ignored by CGC.

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I have to agree with your summation. If a reputable firm (other than CGC) has authenticated the signature of a comic book artist/writer, then why shouldn't CGC accept it as authentic and give it a Signature Series label? I know, I know....it would supposedly open up too many opportunities for employees of these reputable firms to make some money under the table. But you would think that CGC could verify through the company (such as Dynamic Forces) that the signature was authentic. WAY TOO MANY authentic signatures are being ignored just because a CGC representative wasn't present when it was signed. Ticks me off too because I have a decent number of signed comics that have certificates of authenticity that are totally ignored by CGC.

 

I understand the importance of CGC's strict guidelines for authenticating signatures for their Signature Series label and I see that there could be all kinds of problems associated with designating SS yella labels to books that have not been witnessed by a CGC rep/witness. However, in the case of a Dynamic Forces collector's edition that was printed for the sole purpose of having creator(s) sign copies so that they can sell off to collectors, I don't think a qualified green label with a non-descript note as an adequate means of designating or representing that comic. By the same token, it doesn't meet the SS criteria either. I don't see the problem in giving this type of book a blue label with a note made stating that it's a DF Authentix signed limited edition. It is a variant listed in the Overstreet. It's a real book. I'm don't think too many people would question the signatures on the DF Authentix issue. To me, and my opinion only, it seems offputting to see CGC green label it with a note that says "drawing with names and numbers on cover" while it's a recognized edition that was published and released.

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Ultimately, it comes down to CGC protecting themselves. They consider, and rightfully so, the Signature Series label to be fairly prestigious. As long as the slab is untampered with, it's an iron clad guarantee that the signatures and sketches on the book are 100% authentic. Imagine if there were Bob Kane Batman sketches out there with the yellow label. The mystery of whether or not he actually drew it would be gone!

 

Opening the door to third (or is it fourth?) party verification opens a whole new can of worms and it quickly becomes a slippery slope.

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I have to agree with your summation. If a reputable firm (other than CGC) has authenticated the signature of a comic book artist/writer, then why shouldn't CGC accept it as authentic and give it a Signature Series label?

 

You're opening up the question of what is a reputable firm? Is Dynamic Forces reputable, but PGX is not? What about Chaos Comics? They do their own signed books with COAs.

 

I agree with you in principle, but the reality is that opening the door to one company's COAs leads to more and more, and a line would have to be drawn somewhere. Why not just leave the line where it is?

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WAY TOO MANY authentic signatures are being ignored just because a CGC representative wasn't present when it was signed. Ticks me off too because I have a decent number of signed comics that have certificates of authenticity that are totally ignored by CGC.

 

Sorry, I guess I deleted the second part of my last post........ ???

 

They're not ignored, they're just not recognized as authentic by a third party grader. I've got a few books that were signed prior to CGC's Signature Series and even more that were signed since that didn't get the yellow label because it didn't meet CGC's criteria. It doesn't make them any less authentic, it just means it didn't meet CGC's criteria to authenitcate them. I've got an Avengers/Invaders with a John Romita Sr. sketch on a blank cover from Dynamic Forces in Qualified 9.8. I know it's real. I imagine you would accept that it's real (it still has the COA). But the book didn't meet CGC's criteria for them to authenticate it. It doesn't change the value in the least and ost informed buyers would recognize that.

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WAY TOO MANY authentic signatures are being ignored just because a CGC representative wasn't present when it was signed. Ticks me off too because I have a decent number of signed comics that have certificates of authenticity that are totally ignored by CGC.

 

Sorry, I guess I deleted the second part of my last post........ ???

 

They're not ignored, they're just not recognized as authentic by a third party grader. I've got a few books that were signed prior to CGC's Signature Series and even more that were signed since that didn't get the yellow label because it didn't meet CGC's criteria. It doesn't make them any less authentic, it just means it didn't meet CGC's criteria to authenitcate them. I've got an Avengers/Invaders with a John Romita Sr. sketch on a blank cover from Dynamic Forces in Qualified 9.8. I know it's real. I imagine you would accept that it's real (it still has the COA). But the book didn't meet CGC's criteria for them to authenticate it. It doesn't change the value in the least and ost informed buyers would recognize that.

 

While your DF Avengers/Invaders Romita Sr. sketch cover does not meet CGC's criteria for a Signature Series label, why does it have to be in a green label with a note that says something like "name written in pen on cover." Since it's a DF edition that is recognized as legitimate by collectors, wouldn't a blue label with a note stating DF edition work?

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If you know the book is authentic then the label color shouldn't be a problem.

 

After all, Ziploc already taught us that yellow and blue make green.

Why shouldn't a signature (yellow) on an original book (blue) equal a green label?

 

They don't bother me a bit. (thumbs u

 

 

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Ok, my question is - does having the green label de-value the book over it's raw form? IOW, isn't the book now "worth" more because CGC graded it a 9.9 and slabbed it, even if it is in a green label?

 

If a raw DF signed book is worth $10, and the Qualified label book is only worth $10 in the holder, then I see an argument. Otherwise...

 

 

 

-slym

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WAY TOO MANY authentic signatures are being ignored just because a CGC representative wasn't present when it was signed. Ticks me off too because I have a decent number of signed comics that have certificates of authenticity that are totally ignored by CGC.

 

Sorry, I guess I deleted the second part of my last post........ ???

 

They're not ignored, they're just not recognized as authentic by a third party grader. I've got a few books that were signed prior to CGC's Signature Series and even more that were signed since that didn't get the yellow label because it didn't meet CGC's criteria. It doesn't make them any less authentic, it just means it didn't meet CGC's criteria to authenitcate them. I've got an Avengers/Invaders with a John Romita Sr. sketch on a blank cover from Dynamic Forces in Qualified 9.8. I know it's real. I imagine you would accept that it's real (it still has the COA). But the book didn't meet CGC's criteria for them to authenticate it. It doesn't change the value in the least and ost informed buyers would recognize that.

 

While your DF Avengers/Invaders Romita Sr. sketch cover does not meet CGC's criteria for a Signature Series label, why does it have to be in a green label with a note that says something like "name written in pen on cover." Since it's a DF edition that is recognized as legitimate by collectors, wouldn't a blue label with a note stating DF edition work?

 

It has to be in a green label because it wasn't witnessed and doesn't meet the criteria for Signature Series. It's a lot of marking on the book that would otherwise drop the grade considerably, so you could say CGC does recognize it in some way since they don't just call it an 8.0 and call it good.

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If you know the book is authentic then the label color shouldn't be a problem.

 

After all, Ziploc already taught us that yellow and blue make green.

Why shouldn't a signature (yellow) on an original book (blue) equal a green label?

 

They don't bother me a bit. (thumbs u

 

 

There you have it! :applause:

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CGC makes $$ MONEY $$ from their Sig Series, so therefore must protect their lucrative business model by hammering non-SS books with a Qualified label and generic text descriptions.

 

It's pretty simple really. (shrug)

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Ok, my question is - does having the green label de-value the book over it's raw form? IOW, isn't the book now "worth" more because CGC graded it a 9.9 and slabbed it, even if it is in a green label?

 

If a raw DF signed book is worth $10, and the Qualified label book is only worth $10 in the holder, then I see an argument. Otherwise...

 

 

 

-slym

 

I've argued at length that being in a CGC slab should have no effect on value. A NM book is a NM book whether it's raw or slabbed. CGC (in my opinion) should confirm the grade and in turn, the value, rahter than enhance that value.

 

Ultimately, a book is worth what a person is willing to pay. I recognize that mine is a large Romita sketch and am confident that it's authentic, green label or no. If you're hung up on the color of the label, crack 'em out and do without the labels completely. I'm thrilled ot have mine because it's a Romita original, it's authentic (green label be damned!), and it's a 9.8 which is nice since DF can be rough on their books.

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CGC makes $$ MONEY $$ from their Sig Series, so therefore must protect their lucrative business model by hammering non-SS books with a Qualified label and generic text descriptions.

 

It's pretty simple really. (shrug)

 

Well, there's that too........ lol

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Ultimately, a book is worth what a person is willing to pay. I recognize that mine is a large Romita sketch and am confident that it's authentic, green label or no. If you're hung up on the color of the label, crack 'em out and do without the labels completely. I'm thrilled ot have mine because it's a Romita original, it's authentic (green label be damned!), and it's a 9.8 which is nice since DF can be rough on their books.

 

:applause:

 

 

 

-slym

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Ultimately, a book is worth what a person is willing to pay. I recognize that mine is a large Romita sketch and am confident that it's authentic, green label or no. If you're hung up on the color of the label, crack 'em out and do without the labels completely. I'm thrilled ot have mine because it's a Romita original, it's authentic (green label be damned!), and it's a 9.8 which is nice since DF can be rough on their books.

 

:applause:

 

 

 

-slym

 

:acclaim:

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This book is obviously legitimate... so why would anyone care what colour the label is? For that matter, why would anyone care what colour the label is on a book with an accompanying COA?

 

Anyhow, I'm pretty sure CGC wants to keep the SS the premier brand in signed books. I'm sure they'd be happy if the yellow label rendered all COAs obsolete.

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Guest Grails
CGC makes $$ MONEY $$ from their Sig Series, so therefore must protect their lucrative business model by hammering non-SS books with a Qualified label and generic text descriptions.

 

It's pretty simple really. (shrug)

 

I'm glad you clarified that they make $$ MONEY $$ because I thought they were just making money. :grin:

Even though the SS program is not perfect in my opinion (nothing is), I enjoy what it offers. However, the day they start accepting books signed without their own eyes on, I would no longer support the program in any way. Even if they chose to accept nonwitnessed books, those who do not support SS would be able to find much more to bash them about. Questions of authenticy would be abundant. The SS program is the best thing we have going in the way of authentic signatures for those of us who can't be there to obtain it ourselves. And in regards to COA's, collectors know they are not worth the paper they are printed on. COA's can be created, copied or transferred to other books. The only signatures I trust are witnessed by myself or CGC.

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But that's not what I'm referring to.

 

Send in a book with a kid's name scrawled on it, or even a Pedigree or collection signature, and CGC will happily slab it with a Blue Universal label.

 

But if that name happens to be Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Todd McFarlane, Jim Lee, etc. and suddenly out comes the GLOD and the generic "name on cover" stuff.

 

CGC is a business and has a right to protect its SS investment, and I doubt even they would hedge on *exactly* what's going on here.

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