Edgar Church Rolling Over in Grave,Mile High copy of Tally-Ho Comics Desecrated?

[seanfingh]

If anyone is concerned about such things, that book belongs to a Boardie. General etiquette may suggest a little more temperance.

 

My is that the provenance is what it is. There are those who believe that signatures enhance books and those that believe that they deface them. Ne'er the twain shall meet. But I will never be convinced of the "stewardship" model of owning comics.

 

Sean's motto:

 

"Mine! They're all mine!"

 

My motto is that you are stewarding several books that I hope to be mine eventually!

[Transplant]

Yes. The book now belongs to ivegotneatstuff. More power to him on the sale of this book in the future.

 

However, I don't think that should limit our discussion of whether it was appropriate to have it signed in the first place. Nor about the 1 month flip for $5k profit just by getting Frazetta's signature.

[Bunky Brian]

I hear you loud and clear my brother. While I have respect for all the talent involved in making of the book, writer, artist, inker, etc,

 

I could care less about someones sig on the book, let alone enhancing the overall value of said book, (thumbs u

 

 

[metropoliscomics]

That book has been on eBay for a few weeks now. It saddens me deeply every time I see it. So short-sighted, to have a book from the Edgar Church collection forever and irreversably marred. What a terrible decision, made by someone who is merely a temporary custodian of the book.

 

Ah well, I suppose there are many other things in life more worthy of getting upset about.

 

 

 

There are other things more worthy of getting upset over.

 

However, to me, Frank Frazetta is a thousand times more important to our hobby, the art world, and to pop culture in general than Edgar Church. The fact that the book was in his collection is a means of proving provenance only, it's not the stigmata to be revered and bowed down before for cripes sake. In the case of a Tally Ho #1 the fact that it's Frazetta's first work and that it was was Church's collection are the only 2 selling points. This is not a key book by anyone's standard definition.

 

If a choice comes up to place a legend's name on a book like this (please remember it's a Tally Ho, not an Action 1, not a Tec 27) I don't really have much of a problem with it. To me, I look at what book is getting signed and not the pedigree. A Tally Ho #1 is a pretty meaningless book in the Church ped. Given the chance to have Frank sign his first work I would take it.

 

If this were a book of more significance, like the aforementioned Action #1 or Tec #27, I would not make the same decision.

 

Also, I don't drink the same kool-aid on the "custodian of the book" thing. I'm not a curator, I'm a collector....I live in a split level SFH, not a commune....I own what I own until I don't own it anymore. As a collector we all have a vested interest in the preservation of the things we collect, but that does not equate to an absolute duty to do the same. People are free to buy and care for their property in any way they see fit. I would never deem myself in a position to put a book that was in Church's collection decades ago over someone's current fee simple ownership rights.

 

At least those are my thoughts before I have my morning coffee.

 

C

 

I sold this book in Apr of 2008 for $2500. I believe the person whom I sold it to had it signed.

 

Stephen

[Pirate]

I wonder if Edgar Church would even want his name associated with one of if not the biggest fleece in the history of comics.

 

 

What do you mean?

 

Not speaking for Anthony, but I believe he is referring to Chuckles liberating the collection from the Church family.

 

I thought it was obvious, can't assume I guess

[seanfingh]

Yes. The book now belongs to ivegotneatstuff. More power to him on the sale of this book in the future.

 

However, I don't think that should limit our discussion of whether it was appropriate to have it signed in the first place. Nor about the 1 month flip for $5k profit just by getting Frazetta's signature.

 

I never said anything about limiting discussion. I'm merely suggesting that for those who don't intend to openly mock boardies, we are dealing with a boardie. The edit to your post is a perfect example. (thumbs u

[Transplant]

Yes. The book now belongs to ivegotneatstuff. More power to him on the sale of this book in the future.

 

However, I don't think that should limit our discussion of whether it was appropriate to have it signed in the first place. Nor about the 1 month flip for $5k profit just by getting Frazetta's signature.

 

I never said anything about limiting discussion. I'm merely suggesting that for those who don't intend to openly mock boardies, we are dealing with a boardie. The edit to your post is a perfect example. (thumbs u

 

True that. I wanted to make clear that I wasn't posting this guy in response to his current asking price, but it was meant for the $5k 1 month flip.

[Mr Mylar]

I wonder if Edgar Church would even want his name associated with one of if not the biggest fleece in the history of comics.

 

 

What do you mean?

Bought for $2500 in April 08 and sold in May 2008 for $7500. Now listed on Ebay at $12,000 BIN.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ashsaytr]

ok maybe i'm reading this wrong... May 2008?... isn't that a year + flip?

[somewhereintexas]

Before we all get too excited about the one month flip, note that ivegotneatstuff still owns the book. After he sold it on Pedigree Comics in May 2008, he bought it back.

[spideyfan88]

this is so confusing

[Paratrooper]

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf/2009/07/edgar_church_is_rolling_over_i.html

 

Edgar Church Is Rolling Over in His Grave

by Steve Duin, The Oregonian

Wednesday July 01, 2009, 8:35 AM

 

The Mile High copy of Tally-Ho Comics just popped up on eBay. As part of CGC's "Signature Series," it is marred -- and I do mean desecrated -- by Frank Frazetta's signature on the cover.

 

his is the second Mile High I've seen similarly shanghaied by the laughable notion that the "first professional work" of an artist inside the book is more significant than the fact that the comic was once part of Edgar Church's collection; ComicLink recently touted the Wings #56 Mile High with Gene Colan's signature in gold ink.

 

I don't know a single Golden Age collector who believes the value of a comic is enhanced by the autograph of the artist. I wonder how many more Mile Highs will be trashed before these dealers figure that out

 

I like it, you can count me as a GA collector that likes sigs on his books.

[lscomics]

IMO the so called "Pedigree" books aren't any different than any other copies. I've seen nicer copies of book that aren't pedigrees (slabbed & un-slabbed) sell for less money just because they're not part of a recognized collection. As far as the autograph goes, I personally would have done the same thing with this book. Without Frazetta's signature on it I wouldn't even really give it a second look. Sure, it's a nice book but not something I'd ever spend a sizable amount of money on. Granted I don't have 12k to drop on it but if I did the fact that it's SS would certainly attract my attention to it.

[ivegotneatstuff]

Hi - My name is David Bull (ivegotneatstuff) and I thought I should throw in my 2 cents worth ... since this subject seems to be about me and the book that I am currently using as an altar.

 

For the record, I am a huge Frank Frazetta fan and have been ever since I was a kid. My brother is also a huge fan and he is also an artist and was greatly inspired by Frazetta. We collected comics as kids and we were also huge Conan fans - so you can imagine what it was like to see Frazetta's work on the covers of those Conan paperbacks. Our main subjects of interest as kids were Matchbox cars, Lego blocks and what comics were coming out next month and (among other artists...but none of them even came close) how cool we thought Franks art was.

 

Last April or so I was at the CGC getting books graded as I was living in Sarasota at the time...and I overheard some CGC folks mention that there was going to be a Frazetta signing and I nearly passed out. Again, I am a huge Frazetta fan and I emphasize the word "huge". To my knowledge there had never been a signing and might not be another one, and I begged and cried to be included in this coveted list of people (I believe there were only 30 slots available..and they were rapidly filling up) and they fit me in.

 

To be honest, I never even thought I might be defacing a pedigree. My only thought at that time was "If I was going to have Frank sign something...what should it be?" In my mind, the answer to me became more and more clear. It should be a book that was a testament to Frank (and in my mind...his elevated status as a God), his entire career in art and the comic book field. While I considered many other "higher rated" examples of his comic work and art, in my mind I decided it should be the first book he ever worked on...and I thought it should also be the best existing copy of that book. It was done in honor of Frank and his immense influence on the entire industry, not in a desire to make a quick profit. When I found that the best condition copy available at the time was also the 9.4 condition Church copy of Tally Ho, I didn't hesitate for a second, as I thought if I was going to have Frank Frazetta sign something, it should be the best of the best. Again at the time, it was explained to me that Frank would only be signing about 30 items, might not ever again, and not all of them would necessarily be comic books. I thought this was a once in a life time opportunity to have a Signature Series book signed by him, and I was not about to send him a ratty condition copy of Happy Comics #21. I wanted it to be something in line with my love of Frank...something monumental, and something that, in 50 to 100 years, would really mean something. To me it was the perfect "trifecta", the highest existing grade for the book, the first book he ever did and the most famous pedigree of the book. To me nothing else would have been worthy of his signature...but again I am a rabid fan. I remember someone writing on the boards something regarding the defacing of a pedigree comic. It was something to the effect of "Would you deface the Mona Lisa by drawing a mustache on her?" My answer to that is "Yes, but only if Frank can draw it."

 

I did unfortunately have to sell it shortly afterward, but I did not want to...which is why I asked for so much. I was having some serious financial problems at the time (If you need proof of that, ask Jerry at Heritage Comics. He was at my condo accepting a consignment around that time and witnessed my Toyota getting repossessed by a tow truck.) This does not mean I did not love that book or appreciate its significance. In fact, I sincerely doubt others appreciate it as much as I do....but I can easily see how this could be perceived as a "quick flip" with no respect to the parties involved. I can assure everyone it was quite the contrary....as my bookshelves full of Frazetta books and the "Gauntlet" movie poster behind me can attest. I also fulfilled a life long dream of going to the Frazetta Museum with my brother shortly after that and just missed Frank, but was lucky to meet Ellie and also visit Frank Jrs cool costume shop. (I also just bought one of Frank Jrs drawings...hes pretty damn good if you haven't seen his work..and I only mention that to again express my love of all things Frazetta.)

 

With all that being said, I can also now understand peoples opinions that I might have chosen a different book instead of a pedigree..especially a Church copy. I have to admit I did not at this time have as full an appreciation of "the love of pedigree's" as I do now....at least to the extent that adding a signature of someone that was actually involved in the creation of the book would still upset some Pedigree comic lovers. I will say that I am not going out, buying up Pedigree's, and having any insufficiently_thoughtful_person with a pen sign them. That is definitely not my nature. However, I feel that Frank Frazetta is by far significant enough that his signature ADDS to the history, provenance, etc, of a Pedigree...especially this Church issue. My final opinion on that subject is: having someone involved in the creation of the book add their signature to it not only adds to the history of that particular book, but would also in that act acknowledge and reinforce that books significance. To me it was and are these events that make this and other books that much more important and desirable, to know that Frank Frazetta himself held Church's copy in his hands and I hope upon seeing it, pondered his long career in this industry that so shaped his life and signed it (...and immediately afterward, yawned and went back to his Mets game)

 

I recently re-purchased the Tally Ho book privately...for $9,000...and it is sitting next to me as I write this. I just coincidentally removed it from eBay and Heritage prior to reading this (for the record, I did it out of respect of learning about Ellie and not what I read on this thread). I was kindly sent a "FYI" note about this thread from a fellow board member. I also admit I did in part repurchase it to ultimately resell - but do not want to and, if I had a choice, I would have it buried with me with my hands clutching it with a broadsword next to me (along with the Lego's and Matchbox cars). I might consider selling it again if I have to...but the fact that I paid $2,250 more than I sold it for should be testament to the fact of how much I love Frank and his work. Someone wrote to me and offered more than 9k..but had purchased another copy of it elsewhere..and while I did buy it back to entertain his offer..I really just want to keep it if I can continue to do so.

 

I also have noticed since then many others selling their Frazetta signature series books..but I doubt any of them have purchased them back after the sale.

 

Anyway...thought I would say hello

 

Regards

 

 

David

 

(NOTE: This addition was just added to this story here:

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf/2009/07/edgar_church_is_rolling_over_i.html

 

as well as the following text...which was along the lines of:

 

If Edgar Church is rolling over in his grave, (remember, Edgar was an ARTIST who I am sure appreciated other artists and their work) I can assure you it is because his heirs sold his collection so cheaply and NOT because an artist who I am sure he admired signed a book that he owned. In my mind he was standing next to Frank smiling as he signed his book....and I would bet my bottom dollar that he was standing next to Gene Colan when he signed his copy as well. Edgar purchased these books for a reason...because in large part he loved the art within them (evidenced by the fact he also purchased tons of other magazines for their art and his craft). I can't help but imagine that Mr. Church would love to know these artists whose work he collected held his copies in their hands and signed them

[Mutant Manatee]

David,

 

Thank you for taking the time to post that eloquent and informative message.

 

I would like to apologize for the tone of my original post in this thread. I made a vow to myself when I joined this forum that I would always try to be respectful and friendly to everyone, and keep negative comments to myself. This thread has served as a much needed reminder that I need to keep that goal in mind, especially when I don't have all the facts.

 

While my opinion on getting signatures on pedigree comics hasn't changed (especially Edgar Church copies) your explanation certainly sheds new light on what your original motives were. Like yourself, I am also a huge Frazetta fan and I feel very fortunate to have spent some quality time with Ellie at the Frazetta museum. I think it was very classy and respectful of you to pull the item at this time.

 

I hope there are no hard feelings and I wish you the best of luck.

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

[ivegotneatstuff]

David,

 

Thank you for taking the time to post that eloquent and informative message.

 

I would like to apologize for the tone of my original post in this thread. I made a vow to myself when I joined this forum that I would always try to be respectful and friendly to everyone, and keep negative comments to myself. This thread has served as a much needed reminder that I need to keep that goal in mind, especially when I don't have all the facts.

 

While my opinion on getting signatures on pedigree comics hasn't changed (especially Edgar Church copies) your explanation certainly sheds new light on what your original motives were. Like yourself, I am also a huge Frazetta fan and I feel very fortunate to have spent some quality time with Ellie at the Frazetta museum. I think it was very classy and respectful of you to pull the item at this time.

 

I hope there are no hard feeling and I wish you the best of luck.

 

Tony

 

 

 

 

 

I never hold grudges - they are too heavy and I have a bad back

 

but I appreciate your kind comments just now.

 

.. I just wish comic book collectors who feel that the addition of a signature of someone significantly involved with a book ADDS to the provenance of a pedigree book would let their feelings be known here....I mean... I didn't go out and have Jim Lee sign Tally Ho - I had FRAZETTA sign it for Gawds sake

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf/2009/07/edgar_church_is_rolling_over_i.html#post

 

and I certainly feel that Edgar Church is not "rolling over in his grave" and Steve Duin claims to not "know a single Golden Age collector who believes the value of a comic is enhanced by the autograph of the artist" - If you do feel it adds to the value or desirability of such books, please let him know!

[Cimm]

I am a Golden Age collector, and I feel that having one of the original creators sign a book, ESPECIALLY a pedigree'd book, cannot HELP but add to the worth both historically and monetarily.... Kudos to you David, for getting these two pieces of history together (Frazetta's sig, and Church's copy of Frank's first work)! If I had the cabbage to lay down, that book would have been mine the same night you posted it to eBay.

 

Joshua

[ivegotneatstuff]

I am a Golden Age collector, and I feel that having one of the original creators sign a book, ESPECIALLY a pedigree'd book, cannot HELP but add to the worth both historically and monetarily.... Kudos to you David, for getting these two pieces of history together (Frazetta's sig, and Church's copy of Frank's first work)! If I had the cabbage to lay down, that book would have been mine the same night you posted it to eBay.

 

Joshua

 

Thanks! That's how I feel! Now please tell Steve Duin that!

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf/2009/07/edgar_church_is_rolling_over_i.html#post

 

 

[Cimm]

I am a Golden Age collector, and I feel that having one of the original creators sign a book, ESPECIALLY a pedigree'd book, cannot HELP but add to the worth both historically and monetarily.... Kudos to you David, for getting these two pieces of history together (Frazetta's sig, and Church's copy of Frank's first work)! If I had the cabbage to lay down, that book would have been mine the same night you posted it to eBay.

 

Joshua

 

Thanks! That's how I feel! Now please tell Steve Duin that!

 

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/oregonian/steve_duin/index.ssf/2009/07/edgar_church_is_rolling_over_i.html#post

 

 

heh... already did!

[ivegotneatstuff]

 

I'm thinking of writing an article of how Steve Duin's house is not worth anything .. or some other asset he owns. I mean... comon. He wrote "it is marred -- and I do mean desecrated -- by Frank Frazetta's signature on the cover" Steve, it's not Frank Frazetta the plumber from Omaha Nebraska who signed it! It's Frank Frazetta the famous artist who created the book and character who I had sign it! You know, the guy who painted this?? (Ahem..OK most of that)

 

 

I can't help but think of this analogy. It reminds me of the scene from Forest Gump when Lt. Dan yanks him out of bed and screams at Forest: