Edgar Church Rolling Over in Grave,Mile High copy of Tally-Ho Comics Desecrated?

[s-man]

I'm thinking of writing an article of how Steve Duin's house is not worth anything .. or some other asset he owns. I mean... comon. He wrote "it is marred -- and I do mean desecrated -- by Frank Frazetta's signature on the cover" Steve, it's not Frank Frazetta the plumber from Omaha Nebraska who signed it! It's Frank Frazetta the famous artist who created the book and character who I had sign it! You know, the guy who painted this?? (Ahem..OK most of that)

 

 

I can't help but think of this analogy. It reminds me of the scene from Forest Gump when Lt. Dan yanks him out of bed and screams at Forest:

 

 

A bit overdramatic..but

[ivegotneatstuff]

 

 

A bit overdramatic..but

 

Thank you... thank you...

 

 

For my next act, dancing poodles!

[jonjesper]

 

 

Must be a slow news day in Oregon, I think at this point Edgar Church could care less about comics that he once owned. Whatever religious beliefs you subscribe to, I think worrying about past possessions might be low on the list...

 

 

 

 

[ivegotneatstuff]

 

Must be a slow news day in Oregon, I think at this point Edgar Church could care less about comics that he once owned. Whatever religious beliefs you subscribe to, I think worrying about past possessions might be low on the list...

 

 

 

 

ha I have to agree (but.. I, being alive at this moment, care about my current possessions and their perceived value..

 

 

[Mr Mylar]

 

Must be a slow news day in Oregon, I think at this point Edgar Church could care less about comics that he once owned. Whatever religious beliefs you subscribe to, I think worrying about past possessions might be low on the list...

 

 

 

 

Agreed. Due to the boards, I've learned more about Frazetta and his contributions to the hobby. If it was me, ! Sig included.

[seanfingh]

 

Must be a slow news day in Oregon, I think at this point Edgar Church could care less about comics that he once owned. Whatever religious beliefs you subscribe to, I think worrying about past possessions might be low on the list...

 

 

 

 

Plus, even if he were inclined to be thinking about his comics, that Tally Ho wouldn't be in the top twenty. I bet he'd be thinking about how much coin his Marvel Mysterys and Detectives could be pulling down on C-Link

[NYComics]

that guy who wrote that article is a toolbag

[s-man]

that guy who wrote that article is a toolbag

 

Shouldnt it be toolbox?

[Transplant]

I think I'm pretty clear in the "Don't press or SS nice pedigree books" camp, so take the following with a grain of salt and a very big

 

I read through your well stated response David. I admire your passion for Frazetta and I respect that. You can feel a big BUT coming so here it is. But, your own words might give people the impression that other motives were at work in getting Frank's signature on this particular book and the subsequent repurchase.

 

I also admit I did in part repurchase it to ultimately resell - but do not want to and, if I had a choice, I would have it buried with me with my hands clutching it with a broadsword next to me (along with the Lego's and Matchbox cars). I might consider selling it again if I have to...but the fact that I paid $2,250 more than I sold it for should be testament to the fact of how much I love Frank and his work. Someone wrote to me and offered more than 9k..but had purchased another copy of it elsewhere..and while I did buy it back to entertain his offer..I really just want to keep it if I can continue to do so.

 

I'm thinking of writing an article of how Steve Duin's house is not worth anything .. or some other asset he owns.

 

ha I have to agree (but.. I, being alive at this moment, care about my current possessions and their perceived value..

 

Again, I don't question your appreciation for this book and for Frazetta's signature. Last year, I was vocal about the 1 month flip, but I appreciate your clarifying. I'm just saying that you also appear to be concerned with the valuation of this book. I don't understand why the book was listed or why you are concerned if you now have no plans to sell.

 

I'll continue to make my opinion heard that I think having pedigrees signed is a bad idea. But I don't think either side needs to resort to the continued extreme arguments of some that I hear. The article writer was over the top describing this as being scarred. But I wish people, especially in this particular forum, wouldn't resort to calling him and others, who are against signing pedigrees, a toolbox just because we don't agree.

[MedicAR]

I'm not a huge fan of having high grade GA books signed, but it may be more out of jealousy than any "desecration" being done.

 

That being said, I have no problem with anyone getting any book signed. There are some I might not have signed personally, but ultimately the decision is in the hands of the owner. That's right, the owner not the caretaker, steward, curator, or even collector (let's face it, you can own without collecting) makes the decision. I may disagree with what you do with or to your books, but I will defend to the death your right to do so, to paraphrase some old guy.

 

Personally, I would not have picked this book. I would prefer a better example of Frazetta'a work, but again, it wasn't my decision. From the posts from David (the owner's) has made, I understand his decision completely. And honestly, if I had the money, I'd snatch this one up in a second! But only because I already have what I consider good examples of Frazetta's work and could now also add a historically significant book to my collection as well. In all honesty, this is probably the only copy of Tally Ho #1 I would ever want.

 

Count me in as a supporter of having GA books signed! I love it for all the same reasons that any of us love our CGC SS books. It's authentic. It's a connection to the creator or other person associated with the book. It's fun to try to get the signatures an Witnesses to come together in the first place.

 

I've said it many times before, but CGC SS made the hobby fun for me again!

[MedicAR]

Oh, and as for the pedigree.....

 

I don't generally care who owned the book before me. The Nicholas Cage pedigree is mildly amusing but shouldn't realy count. As for collections like the Church pedigree, it's interesting to note it and to know that it probably among the best existing copies in the world, but it doesn't make the book special to me in any way.

 

Prior to CGC I would still have looked through and possibly even have *gasp* read it! It would have been fun to note that it was a part of the collection, but I would not likely ever have used it as a selling point or even a category to collect.

 

Anyone who remembers will diagree with me here in that I was trying to track down the "Arkansas Grocery Sack" collection, but it was as much out of my own curiosity as it was to sell it. I found it when I was young and dumb and didn't know what books to pick out of it. Knowing what I do now, I'd love to find and purchase the collection to see what I missed out on all those years ago.....

[Dollarbill]

That Tally-Ho is the ultimate Frazetta grail

 

Hopefully things work out so you can keep it.

[SideOrderOfBrains]

I think this Stephen Dunis is just hoser that wish he could understand the significance of a Frazetta sig on any copy of anything that he did.

[bronzilla]

I honestly have never understood the Importance many give to a pedigree.

But I do understand the importance of an Artists first work, especially when its Frazetta. Tally Ho was allways my first choice for a Frazetta Sig! Not my Creepys not my Eeries or My Vampirella #1 , although I have owned those issues in SS, it was Tally Ho I was happiest to get Signed even though all I could find at the time was a 5.5 copy.

The 9.6 copy will eventually sell for probably close to his asking price if not full price. And at some future date, as the significance of this book is fully realized to the Frazetta Fan community 12,000 will seem like a bargain!

[NYComics]

I think I'm pretty clear in the "Don't press or SS nice pedigree books" camp, so take the following with a grain of salt and a very big

 

I read through your well stated response David. I admire your passion for Frazetta and I respect that. You can feel a big BUT coming so here it is. But, your own words might give people the impression that other motives were at work in getting Frank's signature on this particular book and the subsequent repurchase.

 

I also admit I did in part repurchase it to ultimately resell - but do not want to and, if I had a choice, I would have it buried with me with my hands clutching it with a broadsword next to me (along with the Lego's and Matchbox cars). I might consider selling it again if I have to...but the fact that I paid $2,250 more than I sold it for should be testament to the fact of how much I love Frank and his work. Someone wrote to me and offered more than 9k..but had purchased another copy of it elsewhere..and while I did buy it back to entertain his offer..I really just want to keep it if I can continue to do so.

 

I'm thinking of writing an article of how Steve Duin's house is not worth anything .. or some other asset he owns.

 

ha I have to agree (but.. I, being alive at this moment, care about my current possessions and their perceived value..

 

Again, I don't question your appreciation for this book and for Frazetta's signature. Last year, I was vocal about the 1 month flip, but I appreciate your clarifying. I'm just saying that you also appear to be concerned with the valuation of this book. I don't understand why the book was listed or why you are concerned if you now have no plans to sell.

 

I'll continue to make my opinion heard that I think having pedigrees signed is a bad idea. But I don't think either side needs to resort to the continued extreme arguments of some that I hear. The article writer was over the top describing this as being scarred. But I wish people, especially in this particular forum, wouldn't resort to calling him and others, who are against signing pedigrees, a toolbox just because we don't agree.

 

 

 

[ivegotneatstuff]

"Again, I don't question your appreciation for this book and for Frazetta's signature. Last year, I was vocal about the 1 month flip, but I appreciate your clarifying. I'm just saying that you also appear to be concerned with the valuation of this book. I don't understand why the book was listed or why you are concerned if you now have no plans to sell. "

 

I am addressing your questions and more because I feel this one thread and its subject matter is important to the hobby..and not because of this one individual book. It brings up broader questions and since I seem to be at the center of this debate, I feel compelled to respond and share my opinion...hope my writing doesn't seem too 'weird'

 

Of course I am concerned with the valuation of the book... and it would be the same for any asset I have purchased such as an antique car or stamp or coin. The fact that I would like to keep the book for myself, doesn't mean I would not sell it to make a profit, as I have bills to pay (which the CGC will attest to!). This does not diminish the fact that I love that book! In fact, I would like to point out that people sell things they love all the time. (Cars, horses, houses, family artifacts) and collectors on a regular basis buy books, sell them when they can't afford to own them anymore, then buy the same book back when they can afford to again. I would say "careful with what we say" (and I am not saying you said this or meant this) about daring to make a profit off of comics quickly. It is in large part what is keeping the values of our beloved collections rising every year (especially through hard times such as these past two years) and justifying their purchase and "collecting of" to our wives or significant others. It makes the hobby that much more enjoyable, and if someone can come and buy a book and make a quick profit from it, it will ultimately drive more people to the hobby and make our collections worth even more, and I ask everyone reading this..would you have a problem with that? (except for the fact that it might make books we want harder to come by.. .)

 

I will say I respect your and others opinions of having pedigrees signed...and understand it. I just feel these emotions regarding pedigrees are temporary (meaning .. they will only last 20 to 50 years) and the emotions regarding artists and the people who created them (Frazetta, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, etc) will last much much longer. We only have a short window of time to have things signed while the creators are with us, and while I realize I could have had a different copy signed, I just strongly felt that only "the best of the best" was good enough to be presented to Frazetta.

 

I mentioned on his article something to the effect of: "Lets assume an incredible collection of books was discovered in 1845 which included a first edition mint copy of "Oliver Twist" by Charles Dickens. Lets call that collection "The Hampshire Collection" and everyone in England at the time was freaked out about it because it contained 100,000 books and was just an amazing collection. The collection was sold at auction the following year, and every book came with a "certificate of authenticity"

 

 

Now lets assume Charles Dickens was handed that copy of "Oliver Twist" and signed it 1852 - 7 years after its discovery. My question is, would collectors be upset Dickens had signed it today? or would they care more about the preservation of the pedigree in it's original condition? http://www.cronaca.com/archives/005324.html (I am aware he inscribed that to his friend... but I am just using it as a reference.)

 

I could go on and on with other scenarios:

 

What if you had a copy of The Federalist from a famous pedigree collection? http://historical.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=683&Lot_No=57044&src=pr Now imagine if it was later signed by Alexander Hamilton?

 

A copy of "The Book of Mormon" signed by Denison Root (brother in law of Mormon prophet Joseph Smith http://www.finebooksmagazine.com/top_stories.cgi?rm=full&id=116) - Now imagine if Joseph Smith himself signed it?

 

A copy of The Daily Maine Campus with a young Stephen King on the cover from some famous Kingophilia collection? Now imagine if Stephen would sign it and write "Yes, I wrote the "Kings Garbage Truck" column...now please don't ever republish them" all over the front of this?

 

 

OK - I realize I am picking some of the most valuable books and weirdest scenarios..and some pretty famous people from history (Stephen's still with us..thank Gawd)....but I am just trying to make a point.

 

Believe me, I understand both sides of this debate...I just think another imaginary scenario from the past can shed more light on why I thought doing this was a "good thing". When history looks back, Frank Frazetta will be remembered in 500 years in my opinion...just like Van Gogh, Degas, Winslow Homer and Paul Rubens (not Reubens/Pee Wee Herman - I'm talking about the Baroque painter here! hmm OK I think they'll remember Pee Wee too.. as they both have a Sarasota connection.) and very, very few people will remember the Mile High collection, with all due respect to Edgar Church, Chuck and collectors everywhere. This one book will hopefully still be encased in plastic and recognized as Frazetta's first work...and historians will then see "Edgar Church" and ask..."Who is Edgar Church?"

 

In regards to the one month flip, I feel the only thing I can really be accused of is being a inadvertent good businessman. I can tell you that during this process of my obtaining the book and having it signed, I did always consider its valuation and what I could sell it for should I sell it and spoke about it with others privately, but I really did not want to sell it if I was in a position to keep it. At what length of time is this "OK" to do in your opinion - a month? A year? 5 years? Look at the example of the Hulk 181 being signed by Stan Lee, and then re-sold for about $32K? Why is it in this industry making a profit on comics if you do it too quickly is frowned on by comic book collectors but if you day trade stocks and buy and sell something within 60 seconds its totally fine. I would propose it is only because we have placed such a high emotional value on these books and the artists who created them that we inflect our own personal feelings and opinions on what others can do with the books...but lets get real here. This is a business. The artists didn't do this work only because they love drawing. They did it because they needed a paycheck.

 

 

DC didn't publish Superman because they just love the smell of ink but because they loved the smell of money. Just because some guy collected these books and kept them all in pristine condition for decades (um - if he did this with new toothbrushes, would you still appreciate this guy for who he was? or just now realize he was some person with a slight case of bibliomania?) doesn't make them sacred. I mean.. it was cool for comic collectors, but it explains why his family "just wanted to get rid of the stuff" as I imagine they were fed up with his years of hoarding books.

 

WHEW! OK... this dead horse has been BEATEN so much I think it's starting to wake up.

[bronzilla]

Why ANYONE gives a Rats Azz what someone else does with his/her own property is beyond me!!

 

BTW your responses and explaining your reasoning behind what you are doing with YOUR property where eloquent and well thought out. Also frankly showing quite a bit of restraint in responding to some ridiculous accusations.

 

It shows how measured and reasoned responses can turn the the tables on an accuser!

 

Well Done!!

[NYComics]

 

 

magnificently explained

 

I can cut and paste this post in response to any of those non believers.

 

Thanks for writing that, there is NO WAY I could of come close to writing that any better. Or would have even spent the time to even write that, my thought is if people just dont get it, then they are just silly.

[MedicAR]

I will say I respect your and others opinions of having pedigrees signed...and understand it. I just feel these emotions regarding pedigrees are temporary (meaning .. they will only last 20 to 50 years) and the emotions regarding artists and the people who created them (Frazetta, Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, etc) will last much much longer. We only have a short window of time to have things signed while the creators are with us, and while I realize I could have had a different copy signed, I just strongly felt that only "the best of the best" was good enough to be presented to Frazetta.

 

[spideyfan88]

that post should get its own thread