Top 20 GA Comics - Relative Scarcity

[CentaurMan]

You've got to watch the Heritage back-catalog for relists, which I think happens a good amount on high dollar books. But when the difference is 16 vs. 3, I think that's a moot consideration. I would've never guessed that the Superman #1's outnumber the Flash #1's by such a high amount, although I did originally estimate that the Flash was scarcer.

[Timely]

In Heritage's back-catalog there are (3) Flash 1s and (16) Superman 1s.

Metropolis currently has (3) Superman 1s and (2) Flash 1s. Comiclink currently has (1) Superman and (0) Flash 1s. etc...

Not trying to belabor the point, I just think you'd be surprised to see how many Superman #1s there are. I think we'd all be surprised.

Best...

 

Keep in mind 5 of those 16 Sup #1's were the same copies going through twice!

 

Actually 13 Flash comics #1 went through Heritage, but only 3 sold!

 

Timely

[buttock]

So my overall count is 24 Supe 1s, sold & unsold, vs 12 Flash 1s. Regardless of whether or not they were relisted. I don't have the patience to check them all.

But the point is not that Flash 1 is common or uncommon - that's not what I'm trying to say. I'm willing to admit that Flash 1 is not hard to find. Nor does it sell particularly well. What I'm saying, is that Superman 1 is very common. That's the evidence that I'm presenting, and it bears out.

Now were the playoffs great today or what?

 

 

[CentaurMan]

Fantanstic. Couldn't have asked for better games. Or better outcomes, seeing as I'm a Carolinian who just spent my past 3 years in Boston.

 

Onto Whiz Comics #1. Can you believe that only FIVE unrestored copies have been graded by CGC? Let's put that into perspective:

 

Issue / Unrestored copies CGC graded

 

New Fun 1 / 0 (wrong size book, ineligible)

Detective 1 / 3

Adventure 40 / 5

Whiz 1 / 5

Action 2 / 6

More Fun 52 / 6

Detective 29 / 7

All-American 16 / 9

 

Every other book in our list of 20 has at least 10 unrestored copies graded by CGC (or, in the case of Batman #1, 33!). Methinks that the first issue of Whiz Comics is MUCH rarer than we've been giving it credit for, or else Fawcett collectors don't send their books to get slabbed.

 

Or maybe Whiz #1 gets restored more often than most top 20 books. There are 13 restored copies graded, way more than the other books I itemized out, and more than any of the Top 20 list other than very common Superman 1, Batman 1, Detective 38, and Captain America 1. Odd, nonetheless. Thoughts?

[tb]

I thought it would be interesting to compare these observations with the print run for each issue. Unfortunately, the most credible data I am aware of (there are many conflicting numbers in various articles and books on comics) is pretty sparse. Where no figure was available, I listed the closest issue (see notes):

 

119,379* Detective #1

*) This is the average of the issues of Detective, More Fun, and Adventure in July '38. The print run of Detective in March '37 was likely lower.

130,000 Action #1

136,000 Action #2

173,622* Detective Comics #27

*) Average for the May '39 issues of Detective, More Fun, and Adventure

212,188* Adventure Comics #40

212,188* Detective Comics #29

*) Average for the July '39 issues of Detective, More Fun, and Adventure

256,003* Detective Comics #31

*) Average for the Sept. '39 issues of Detective, More Fun, and Adventure

260,000* Detective Comics #33

*) Total sales for Action, Detective, More Fun, Adventure in Nov. '39 were 1,406,917. Figure for #33 estimated based on percentage from Sept. '39.

261,987* Flash Comics #1

261,987* All-American Comics #16

*) Average for the Jan. '41 issues of Flash and All American. 1940 issues likely had lower print runs.

283,000* Whiz #2 (1)

*) Combined total for Whiz and Master in Jul 42: 577,278. Note that the print run

for the earlier years were likely much lower.

333,000* Detective Comics #38

*) Total sales for Action, Detective, More Fun, Adventure in April '40 were 1,810,849. Figure for #38 estimated based on percentage from Sept. '39.

336,000* More Fun Comics #52

*) Total sales for Action, Detective, More Fun, Adventure in Feb. '40 were 1,828,124. Figure for #52 estimated based on percentage from Sept. '39.

900,000* Superman #1

*) 1st printing: 500,000, 2nd: 250,000, 3rd: 150,000

 

No data:

All Star Comics #3

Batman #1

Captain America #1

New Fun Comics #1

Green Lantern #1

Marvel Comics #1

 

[Aman619]

Hey Timely - - you know this stuff. Is Superman #1 really so rare above 8.0?? There were so many copies in three printings. I see many low grade copies around, but not too many HG ones, so I begin to agree with you. So whats the story?

 

ALso, someone posted an unrestored 7.5 Superman #1 here a few months back. If it really is that rare, what do you think it would/should sell for? If it's one of the best two or three copies, would it be 'worth' full NM guide? Or straight 8.0 Guide?

 

In this day of specific prices for specufic CGC grades, should a midgrade copy of a GA key sell for a multiple of its Guide price because of its scarcity? Or sell AT guide due to its midgrade condition because only copies above 9.2 go for multiples?

[JohnBull]

I know this is OT, but I'm out of my area and you guys obviously know you're stuff. In your experiences, which of the first 20 issues of Action Comics (outside the first couple) would you say are scarcest. The census numbers for some of the mid number issues are very small. Thanks.

[Filter81]

I don't know as much as most of you do I'm sure, but I'm not aware of a single unrestored 8.0 or higher copy of Superman #1. (And believe me, I've looked!) I know there's 1 on the CGC census listed at 8.0, but isn't that the mile high copy and isn't it really restored? As far as I know that 7.5 that showed up in these forums a while ago is the highest graded truly unrestored copy that has been discovered to date. I'd predict it would sell for at least 2x guide if it ever became available in a Heritage auction someday.

 

I'm sure Timely would know better than me though!

 

 

[Ian_Levine]

Here's my best guess:

 

1) New Fun Comics #1

2) Detective Comics #1

3) Adventure Comics #40

4) All-American Comics #16

5) More Fun Comics #52

6) Whiz Comics #2 (#1)

7) Action Comics #2

8) Marvel Comics #1

9) Detective Comics #27

10) Action Comics #1

11) Detective Comics #29

12) Flash Comics #1

13) Detective Comics #33

14) Detective Comics #31

15) All Star Comics #3

16) Superman #1

17) Detective Comics #38

18) Green Lantern #1

19) Captain America #1

20) Batman #1

 

I can't agree with any of these.

Stuff like Action 1, Flash 1 and Detective 27 are the most sought after comics, yes indeed, but it doeasn't make them the scarcest.

There are over fifty or sixty Action 1s and Detective 27s around.

I have personally seen five Detective 1s.

Compare that to the Double Actions and Buzzy 70.

I can only talk about DC as that's my area of expertise.

Easily the twenty rarest DCs are as follows.

 

 

1 - DOUBLE ACTION 1

2 - NEW ADVENTURE 13

3 - BUZZY 70

4 - DOUBLE ACTION 2

5 - ACTION COMICS "THE VIGILANTE" 1947 THEATRE GIVEAWAY

6 - SUPERGEAR

7 - THE SUPERMAN BRADMAN COMIC

8 - THE FAT AND SLAT JOKE BOOK

9 - NEW ADVENTURE 26

10 - JACKIE GLEASON AND THE HONEYMOONERS 12

11 - FEATURE FILMS 4

12 - THE BIG BOOK OF FUN COMICS

13 - FLASH 56

14 - HOUSE OF MYSTERY 17

15 - NEW FUN 6

16 - "FREIHOFER'S" ALL AMERICAN COMICS GIVEAWAY

17 - NEW COMICS 1

18 - DETECTIVE 2

19 - SUGAR AND SPIKE 2

20 - MORE FUN 14

 

Now remember, this has nothing to do with either value or desirability.

Just purely based on rarity alone.

And four of those are from the 1950s and two of them are much later, but no less rare.

And I myself don't have eight of the twenty.

But in my learned opinion, those are the twenty rarest DC comics.

 

[buttock]

Fantanstic. Couldn't have asked for better games. Or better outcomes, seeing as I'm a Carolinian who just spent my past 3 years in Boston.

 

Onto Whiz Comics #1. Can you believe that only FIVE unrestored copies have been graded by CGC? Let's put that into perspective:

 

Issue / Unrestored copies CGC graded

 

New Fun 1 / 0 (wrong size book, ineligible)

Detective 1 / 3

Adventure 40 / 5

Whiz 1 / 5

Action 2 / 6

More Fun 52 / 6

Detective 29 / 7

All-American 16 / 9

 

Every other book in our list of 20 has at least 10 unrestored copies graded by CGC (or, in the case of Batman #1, 33!). Methinks that the first issue of Whiz Comics is MUCH rarer than we've been giving it credit for, or else Fawcett collectors don't send their books to get slabbed.

 

Or maybe Whiz #1 gets restored more often than most top 20 books. There are 13 restored copies graded, way more than the other books I itemized out, and more than any of the Top 20 list other than very common Superman 1, Batman 1, Detective 38, and Captain America 1. Odd, nonetheless. Thoughts?

 

I'm really interested in the data on Whiz #1. I think that book probably seems more common than it is since it doesn't sell quite as quickly as the others. I only know of 3 copies for sale right now - including the 7.0 previously referenced (I'm assuming that's Terry's copy) - which is fewer than you'd expect (maybe). It kind of gets lost in the shuffle of discussion since it's not a Timely or a DC, but it's a hugely important book.

 

hkp - that's awesome data. I would have thought Action 1 would have had a larger print run. Exccellent stuff.

 

 

[Timely]

[quoteI can't agree with any of these.

Stuff like Action 1, Flash 1 and Detective 27 are the most sought after comics, yes indeed, but it doeasn't make them the scarcest.

There are over fifty or sixty Action 1s and Detective 27s around.

I have personally seen five Detective 1s.

Compare that to the Double Actions and Buzzy 70.

I can only talk about DC as that's my area of expertise.

Easily the twenty rarest DCs are as follows.

 

 

1 - DOUBLE ACTION 1

2 - NEW ADVENTURE 13

3 - BUZZY 70

4 - DOUBLE ACTION 2

5 - ACTION COMICS "THE VIGILANTE" 1947 THEATRE GIVEAWAY

6 - SUPERGEAR

7 - THE SUPERMAN BRADMAN COMIC

8 - THE FAT AND SLAT JOKE BOOK

9 - NEW ADVENTURE 26

10 - JACKIE GLEASON AND THE HONEYMOONERS 12

11 - FEATURE FILMS 4

12 - THE BIG BOOK OF FUN COMICS

13 - FLASH 56

14 - HOUSE OF MYSTERY 17

15 - NEW FUN 6

16 - "FREIHOFER'S" ALL AMERICAN COMICS GIVEAWAY

17 - NEW COMICS 1

18 - DETECTIVE 2

19 - SUGAR AND SPIKE 2

20 - MORE FUN 14

 

Now remember, this has nothing to do with either value or desirability.

Just purely based on rarity alone.

And four of those are from the 1950s and two of them are much later, but no less rare.

And I myself don't have eight of the twenty.

But in my learned opinion, those are the twenty rarest DC comics.

 

Ian we are talking about the scarcity of the 20 most valueable Golden Age books, not every golden Age book!

 

Timely

[Timely]

Hey Timely - - you know this stuff. Is Superman #1 really so rare above 8.0?? There were so many copies in three printings. I see many low grade copies around, but not too many HG ones, so I begin to agree with you. So whats the story?

 

ALso, someone posted an unrestored 7.5 Superman #1 here a few months back. If it really is that rare, what do you think it would/should sell for? If it's one of the best two or three copies, would it be 'worth' full NM guide? Or straight 8.0 Guide?

 

In this day of specific prices for specufic CGC grades, should a midgrade copy of a GA key sell for a multiple of its Guide price because of its scarcity? Or sell AT guide due to its midgrade condition because only copies above 9.2 go for multiples?

 

I have also been told that the 8.0 Superman in the census is the MH copy, and it's a well known fact that book is restored! My friend had that 7.5 copy and it sold for a record price, but I forget the exact amount he told me, I think it was around $250K?!?

 

There are no known copies above 8.5 that anyone knows of. I was told the Overstreet copy was the best known copy of Superman #1 and it was an unrestored VF, but maybe that's the 7.5 copy that my friend had, I'm not sure.

 

Timely

[Ian_Levine]

Ian we are talking about the scarcity of the 20 most valueable Golden Age books, not every golden Age book!

 

Oh !!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh well.

The twenty rarest DCs would have been more interesting, at least to me.

Oh well - shall I delete my posts

[fantastic_four]

Oh well - shall I delete my posts

 

No, a little begging and pleading for forgiveness coupled with a public flogging will be enough.

[Ian_Levine]

No, a little begging and pleading for forgiveness coupled with a public flogging will be enough.

 

Consider me begged and pleaded

[comgeek]

The Sup 1 I sold was not the Overstreet...It came from a long time collector in the midwest who bought it in 1968 with 2 other Sup 1's.....The only other known TRUE Unrestored Sup 1 belongs to the "DENTIST" who says it would grade 9.0 -9.2....But page quality is iffy...And the book I sold was around 200K.....Anyone want a New Comics # 1 in Unrestored CGC NM 9.2!!! Let me know...I have it

[Rip]

I also heard that the highest grade copy of Sups 1 is a 9.0.

(BTW what is the grade on the Denver copy?)

[CentaurMan]

which of the first 20 issues of Action Comics (outside the first couple) would you say are scarcest

 

I'm not an Action Comics expert, but I'd say that issues 3, 9, 10, 11, and 13 are the ones that stand out to me as being almost impossible to find unrestored.

 

I see 20 times as many #7's (2nd Superman cover) as I do the #10 (3rd Superman cover).

[Rip]

I'd say Action 2,3 and 5 are the toughest three

[Aman619]

The Sup 1 I sold was not the Overstreet...It came from a long time collector in the midwest who bought it in 1968 with 2 other Sup 1's.....The only other known TRUE Unrestored Sup 1 belongs to the "DENTIST" who says it would grade 9.0 -9.2....But page quality is iffy...And the book I sold was around 200K.....Anyone want a New Comics # 1 in Unrestored CGC NM 9.2!!! Let me know...I have it

 

"The Dentist"!! I love that name.. sounds like a pulp villain! Or a character in a Tarantino film...

So did it sell for "around 190K: or $210K?? Or is it hard to value since it involved a lot of trade like so many other high big ticket deals?

 

Still hard to believe that the 2nd best copy would only be a 7.5 when there were so many copies printed.