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Original Color Guides yes or no??

Started by wca140,

21 posts in this topic

wca140

wca140

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Hi All,

 

I'm new to the boards and collecting, just wanted some feed back from experienced comic art collectors on the subject of Marvel & DC original color guides. Now that the process has changed to computer coloring what do you all think about color guides?

Collectible Yes or No?

What value would you put on Silver, Bronze & Copper age covers and interiors?

Though little appreciated where do you think they will rate in 10 to 15 years?

Thanks again any of your knowledge is greatly appreciated!

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chrisco37

chrisco37

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I think there is some collectiblity to them.

 

I own the complete color guide to an issue of 100 Bullets.

 

Definitely will never have the same "following" that OA does. But, there's a market for it.

 

Hard to determine "value" on them though.

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*paull*

*paull*

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I think there are at least a few categories of color guides: those created by unknown publishing staff, those created by highly respected colorists (such as Marie Severin, etc.), and color guides created by the illustrator him/herself. Values vary as a result. I'm of the opinion that they are a vital part of the creative process, and are undervalued by many people who value the pen and ink illustrations.

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wca140

wca140

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JLA #2 & 100 bullets complete color guide Very Sweet!

 

Thanks for the posts! I've been searching all over the place & answers are really hard to come by. It truly seems to be the poor stepchild of the comic book collecting world at this point. More collectors seem to appreciate the value of the printers proofs over the actual color guides themselves which completely baffles me. Any number of comic book stores that I have contacted across the country in many cases did not even know what a color guide was and when they did were not able to really give me any idea about pricing.

 

Good points on the 3 divisions of the guides, I would think there would be some interest if Kirby had done his own for instance. On ebay now there is a complete color guide book for Kirbys Thor #163 I'm guessing the coloring was done by Marvel staffers the seller is asking currently $4,900 for it which seems high to me but it must have some value. How would that be determined?

The printed raw books and of course the CGC books have a real considerable value that can be gauged where does one of a kind production art like this fall?

 

I'm wondering will appreciation for color guide work develop more of a following and increase in value or not? Just so hard to tell, but even more interesting to me that such a necessary part in the production and history of comic books does not seem to be even considered. It is very strange to me...

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Mighty Hal

Mighty Hal

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I'm wondering will appreciation for color guide work develop more of a following and increase in value or not? Just so hard to tell, but even more interesting to me that such a necessary part in the production and history of comic books does not seem to be even considered. It is very strange to me...

 

Color guides have less of a collector's base at this time. Gotta remember that OA used to be very cheap, too, before there was a market shift. Now there are collectors that focus on nothing else (someone like -- me).

 

Could color guides soar in value? Sure. They've already increased in value from when I first saw them come on the market.

 

They'll develop a larger following if there are resources out there to build a collector's base. There are several OA forums, an OA price guide, OA marketplaces and artists that pitch their art on hundreds of websites. That's one reason that OA has climbed in value.

 

Color guides are gonna struggle in this regard. As far as I know, there's no color guide-specific site for collectors to gather, discuss, and purchase the guides. There aren't any colorists hyping the product. Prices are solely determined on what a seller wants or what an auction brings. Plus, they're old technology. They'll either climb in value because of their increasing scarcity or drop in value because no one cares. (An OA example: I can buy cheap Fiction House comic art from fifty years ago because there aren't many FH collectors. If I want a Terry Dodson cover, though, it's gonna hurt my bank account.)

 

It's a roll of the dice, wca140. Best of luck!

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*paull*

*paull*

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I think that one thing that affects the value of color guides is the lack of knowledge about the good colorists (Severin, Adler, etc.) and about illustrators who colored their own work. I think this will improve with time, especially if the ink illustrations greatly outpace the color work and collectors give color guides a second look.

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wca140

wca140

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Hal, thanks for the additional points. I am getting a better idea here of the status of the color guides. I guess that is what is perplexing me about the situation given the fact that there are so many collectors of both the OA and the books themselves not to mention forums on all topics pertaining to comic book field I just find it shocking that extremely few people are talking about them or even considering them. I have not been able to find any past discussions about the topic even on this site, that is saying something. Either this is a really great time to acquire them as the market is developing or as you stated with the Fiction House art the situation will not change that greatly going forward.

 

Paul, I agree there does seem to be a lack of knowledge about the colorists or even their importance in the field, I feel this was also fed by the companies themselves that did not even bother to list the colorists in the creators panels inside the books until more modern times. As well what you were saying about the comparison in price to the Original Ink Drawings I thought would promote more interest in these color guides. Personally I can't afford a silver age FF cover though I would love it but perhaps the guide would be much more approachable if one could find it. A few people have also told me that a lot of the color guides were destroyed but to my mind that should again make them even more sought after & collectible.

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wca140

wca140

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Hi frederic9494 yes indeed I am. I just logged on this morning to see if anybody had added to the thread with additional interesting info and I have to say you shocked me a bit, I really did not think anybody would recognize the name!

 

Thanks for the question, unfortunately at this time we do not have a comprehensive list put together, it is a slow work in progress. Tatjana, who is my aunt, and myself decided to venture into selling a few of her guides and really just testing the market & response.

 

As stated here in this post it has been really hard to get a consistent gauge on these items and what people feel about color guides in general, we've received responses ranging from these pieces are worthless to a number of others who have wanted to buy the entire collection to an even larger group who want to know what a color guide is. So basically how we are proceeding is Tatjana is signing all the color guides and we are posting a few of these over time with some auctions added in and as the guides are posted they are entered into a database and scanned for our records. Tatjana started working for DC around 1969 but unfortunately DC only started returning her guides to her around 1974 or so I think it was the same for the OA pages to the artists. Sometimes the guides would come back to her welded together because the separators had spilled paint on them or the printers had scribbled notes on the pieces without care all the more painful to her given the care, attention to detail and time she put into them. We are thankful the pieces we have were able to actually survive the process of making the comic book!

 

Please if anybody has any additional interesting information, stories or feedback about the guides it is all really great to hear!

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Nexus

Nexus

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Personally, I like and search out colour (Mind the spelling, I'm Canadian) guides to pieces that are very nostalgic to me and I know I will never get the OA to.

 

If color guides ever gain traction, this will be the reason why-- as an economical alternative to OA. If the values were equal, I doubt many would choose color guides over OA.

 

There was a rather long and spirited discussion about color guides here a few years ago. I'll see if I can find it.

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wca140

wca140

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Personally, I like and search out colour (Mind the spelling, I'm Canadian) guides to pieces that are very nostalgic to me and I know I will never get the OA to.

 

Yes I agree, there are any number of silver age pieces that would be a nice option to have, actually surprising to me that there are so few available, either collectors are holding onto them or as has been rumored before that many were destroyed, I've only seen a handful of pieces.

 

Colour sounds good too! Cheers! (thumbs u

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wca140

wca140

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Personally, I like and search out colour (Mind the spelling, I'm Canadian) guides to pieces that are very nostalgic to me and I know I will never get the OA to.

 

If color guides ever gain traction, this will be the reason why-- as an economical alternative to OA. If the values were equal, I doubt many would choose color guides over OA.

 

There was a rather long and spirited discussion about color guides here a few years ago. I'll see if I can find it.

 

Nexus Thank you for the connection to both of those threads they were Fantastic I enjoyed the discussions very much!

The 2nd one was rather a bit heated, I must tell you I had a touch of fear about what I might have gotten myself into with feelings running so high on the topic! :o

 

Yes I agree with you as well, I do not think they will ever gain the large sums of money that the OA pages are achieving, barring perhaps a rare special piece, but to my mind I still see them as an art form unto themselves and an integral part of the book making process as well not to mention being one of a kind hand done pieces.

 

Joe Orlando who was one of Tatjana & Wally Woods close friends, they often use to play bridge together, and was one of her editors at DC for a good while, he used to tell her just tell the story using the color. When she first heard him say this she thought it a crazy statement, it was only after much experience that she found out what a profound statement it actually was, she still chuckles about it today.

 

I really am not sure if most people truly appreciate the talent that goes into successful coloring, receiving many black and white images conceiving the color strategies spelling out effect details that support the line work without detracting from it for a successful piece. She enjoyed working through the night for better concentration many a time I would bring my work over to her house and work through the night with her getting to see first hand the many hours of labour and attention to detail she would place on these pieces. Joe Kubert who was another editor of hers had a high regard for her talent and used to especially request that she color his art, perhaps not colored by the OA artist but the next best thing being requested by one.

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wca140

wca140

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SA color guides are a lot less common, but some exist.

 

I do a lot of searches online the majority on ebay I'm always interested when one does show up.

Most recently the complete Kirby Thor book from 1969 not sure if it sold, and a Silver Surfer splash page. Always wondering what might turn up next. Maybe some at the conventions but I haven't been to one in years... late 1970s in fact I guess it's time for a refresher is an understatement! :D

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Catwoman_Fan

Catwoman_Fan

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First, congrats to WCA on your recent auctions. You have some great art for sale! There's definitely a couple covers that I'm hoping show up for sale...

 

 

 

But when considering the value of Color Guides, was anyone else shocked by the final price for the Joker 1 cover?

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280399959957

 

I am just wondering, because it seemed to go for a large fraction of what the original pen and ink cover would be worth. Am I off base? I have seen painted "production art" (i.e. directly reproduced for the book) that was colored over a reproduction of the inks, sell for about half of the inked original - but color guides are a slightly different animal. ...with these auction results, I am thinking color guides would be a great investment...

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