Thinking about something.. RE:Thread in GA forum.

[Ogami]

Personally, I think that is debatable, Pat.

 

 

I think it all depends on your parameters: financial, historical, impact, scarcity, etc. Personally I think AF 15 is more significant than FF1 (and I am more of an FF guy than a Spidey guy) because Spidey is way more of a creative achievement. FF characters are all retreads. I know I'm setting myself up to look ignorant when some of you will point out Spidey's original sources of inspiration, but hey, I'm here to learn!

 

I agree. I place heavy emphasis on creativity and innovation, less on who came first. (much like the market place in almost every other arena!)

 

Then I place emphasis on cultural importance, both then, and now, or hopefully, both.

 

I think Spidey trounces the FF in these two areas.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Personally, I think that is debatable, Pat.

 

 

I think it all depends on your parameters: financial, historical, impact, scarcity, etc. Personally I think AF 15 is more significant than FF1 (and I am more of an FF guy than a Spidey guy) because Spidey is way more of a creative achievement. FF characters are all retreads. I know I'm setting myself up to look ignorant when some of you will point out Spidey's original sources of inspiration, but hey, I'm here to learn!

 

I agree. I place heavy emphasis on creativity and innovation, less on who came first. (much like the market place in almost every other arena!)

 

Then I place emphasis on cultural importance, both then, and now, or hopefully, both.

 

I think Spidey trounces the FF in these two areas.

Pop culture, yes. Importance as far as what MADE marvel comics.. The FF hands down, and can not be debated.

 

Spideys book is just spidey, very few characters were created in that book who had any relativity in the Marvel Universe. The FF is basically the core of the Marvel Universe. Lets look into this a bit.

 

In FF 1-100 you had.

Namor, Dr.Doom, Inhumans, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock,early X-Men and Avengers crossovers (which brought the reprecussions in this book to other books), Hulk/Thing battles. The early FF stories from Stan and Jack created a whole backdrop for the "616". Oh, and the Skrulls.

 

Spidey 1-100. Well a few characters made their way into other titles, but not many. Not a ton of guest appearances either. Spidey is more of a contained book.

 

Im sorry, but spidey is a GREAT character. But his book pales hard in comparison to the FF. Spidey is pop-culture. The FF ARE the center of the Marvel Universe.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I place heavy emphasis on creativity and innovation, less on who came first.

 

FF wins dude.

[VintageComics]

 

Im sorry, but spidey is a GREAT character. But his book pales hard in comparison to the FF. Spidey is pop-culture. The FF ARE the center of the Marvel Universe.

 

Yes. FF did more to expand the Marvel Universe spacially than anything else out there except for maybe Thor...you had intergalactic adventures, the Negative Zone, entire families of new characters created...there really was no limit. Spidey was mostly about New York and the trials and tribulations of a photographer in that city.

 

Both were great but the FF is the backbone of the Marvel Universe, no question.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

 

Im sorry, but spidey is a GREAT character. But his book pales hard in comparison to the FF. Spidey is pop-culture. The FF ARE the center of the Marvel Universe.

 

Yes. FF did more to expand the Marvel Universe spacially than anything else out there except for maybe Thor...you had intergalactic adventures, the Negative Zone, entire families of new characters created...there really was no limit. Spidey was mostly about New York and the trials and tribulations of a photographer in that city.

 

Both were great but the FF is the backbone of the Marvel Universe, no question.

JIM did bring some new spins as well. And through Thor it was a big part of what makes the current Marvel Universe.

 

Wrecking Crew

[VintageComics]

 

Im sorry, but spidey is a GREAT character. But his book pales hard in comparison to the FF. Spidey is pop-culture. The FF ARE the center of the Marvel Universe.

 

Yes. FF did more to expand the Marvel Universe spacially than anything else out there except for maybe Thor...you had intergalactic adventures, the Negative Zone, entire families of new characters created...there really was no limit. Spidey was mostly about New York and the trials and tribulations of a photographer in that city.

 

Both were great but the FF is the backbone of the Marvel Universe, no question.

JIM did bring some new spins as well. And through Thor it was a big part of what makes the current Marvel Universe.

 

Wrecking Crew

 

Thor was also 3rd or 4th IIRC in the grand order of all things Marvel right after FF #1, AF #15 and possibly Incredible Hulk #1...I just don't remember any more.

[Ogami]

Personally, I think that is debatable, Pat.

 

 

I think it all depends on your parameters: financial, historical, impact, scarcity, etc. Personally I think AF 15 is more significant than FF1 (and I am more of an FF guy than a Spidey guy) because Spidey is way more of a creative achievement. FF characters are all retreads. I know I'm setting myself up to look ignorant when some of you will point out Spidey's original sources of inspiration, but hey, I'm here to learn!

 

I agree. I place heavy emphasis on creativity and innovation, less on who came first. (much like the market place in almost every other arena!)

 

Then I place emphasis on cultural importance, both then, and now, or hopefully, both.

 

I think Spidey trounces the FF in these two areas.

Pop culture, yes. Importance as far as what MADE marvel comics.. The FF hands down, and can not be debated.

 

Spideys book is just spidey, very few characters were created in that book who had any relativity in the Marvel Universe. The FF is basically the core of the Marvel Universe. Lets look into this a bit.

 

In FF 1-100 you had.

Namor, Dr.Doom, Inhumans, Galactus, Silver Surfer, Adam Warlock,early X-Men and Avengers crossovers (which brought the reprecussions in this book to other books), Hulk/Thing battles. The early FF stories from Stan and Jack created a whole backdrop for the "616". Oh, and the Skrulls.

 

Spidey 1-100. Well a few characters made their way into other titles, but not many. Not a ton of guest appearances either. Spidey is more of a contained book.

 

Im sorry, but spidey is a GREAT character. But his book pales hard in comparison to the FF. Spidey is pop-culture. The FF ARE the center of the Marvel Universe.

 

We're talking about two different things, Pat. (another joy of internet message boards, in RL, we could hash this out with facial cues and talking in mere minutes)

 

I'm talking about the creativity and innovation of Spidey versus the FF and my argument stands. There had never been a superhero who was so average, so ordinary, so young. Lee and Ditko created the perfect storm in Spidey. The FF was a bit of a rehash of the Challengers, with the Marvel style added on. Heck, even the powers were a rehash. I'm talking about Spidey being a better property/creation in terms of culture and, further, in the market.

 

But I see your point as well. You make a very good point that the FF is more the center of the Marvel Universe than any other book. I've never heard that argument before, I like it very, very much.

 

I've always loved the FF. Now I can put a finer point on why.