Leaf Casted Brittle Pages

[zzutak]

A fascinating blend of artistry, manual dexterity, and science. Well done! (thumbs u (thumbs u

[Ze-man]

In closing, here are some photos of the 2nd wrap cut to size, and about as severe a stress test I could manage of the casted page. I literally wound the corner of each page around my finger to take these stress photos, and did so without worry. Even I was surprised at the results.

 

Thanks for all the feedback, we were not sure how people would react to leaf casting.

 

And sorry for the different lighting. All the photos were taken on the same white table, only at different times of day.

 

 

 

 

And back flat again.

 

 

[thehumantorch]

Amazing Kenny. Thanks for the great info.

[drbanner]

So cool Kenny, thanks for sharing!

 

Are there new fibers/paper overlaying the original paper, or can you focus the casting just at the edges of the existing paper (where you're "adding" paper)?

[etanick]

great work and thanks for sharing (thumbs u

[rockman2008]

Like I said, just because I didn't go into detail about what I did does not mean these things were not addressed or that I am not aware of paper chemistry. Cellulose was reintroduced as part of the casting process. How on earth do you think I am able to flex the pages like this? Magic?

 

All kidding aside, I am not claiming the pages are no longer brittle, nor how long they will last. Just that it is possible to cast, and fold a brittle wrap like this for use in a comic book again compared to layers of glue and japan/cadaver paper holding the page together. I have done both, and even an imperfect leaf cast process is preferable.

 

If a tree falls in a forest and there's no one there to see you leaf cast...Gee, Ze, you ask for feedback and you can't define what you've done?

 

OK. I knew you were not claiming the pages are no longer brittle from your casting process. I am suspecting (hoping) the readers are not skimming over your pictures and skimpy write-up, and walking away with the notion your leaf casting is some kind of magic to make unbrittle the brittle.

 

The cellulose I pointed out are the old dry ones in the brittle pages. Water from your casting made the old cellulose more ductile. However all the root causes of brittleness especially the lignin, are still there.

 

I was merely pointing out that treating brittleness is entirely a separate, independent process from casting. You can cast brittle pages, but at the end of the day, they are still brittle. Except now they have better reinforcement along areas where there are paper splits...and the pages are easier to handle in a natural comic book way.

 

Again, while leaf casting is a solution for a range of issues, it does not fix brittle paper.

 

Incidentally the test for brittleness is different from testing whether the paper is flexible. Do a google search on "brittle paper test." The real test involves folding a paper corner (not wrapping it around a finger) a number of times and seeing if it breaks or unfolds.

 

 

[FFB]

Why are you being such a ? Kenny wanted to show us the results of something that no other comic restoration professional would have even attempted and you're dressing him down for not spilling all of the details of the process? And then you tell him to google the MIT folds test, like he doesn't know what that is? Dude, get a grip and get over yourself.

[Hero Restoration]

First let me say I have allot of respect for Kenny and his work. I think Rockman brought up an interesting point, sure the pictures are impressive and what Kenny is doing is out of this world but what about the details. Kenny doesn't really need to show off at this point as everyone knows he and Matt are the best right now. Allot of people have told me they like details and here there were none about the process itself . It’s not like if he described what he did people are going to buy their own equipment and cheat him out of his business since its not cheap or easy to do. Leaf casting is very complicated and it would have been nice if he walked us through the process and explained what he did to prep the pages. I admit that someday I would like to do leaf casting but even with details it wouldn’t be enough knowledge to start doing the process on my own. Just a thought. (thumbs u

[codfish]

 

If a tree falls in a forest and there's no one there to see you leaf cast...Gee, Ze, you ask for feedback and you can't define what you've done?

 

OK. I knew you were not claiming the pages are no longer brittle from your casting process. I am suspecting (hoping) the readers are not skimming over your pictures and skimpy write-up, and walking away with the notion your leaf casting is some kind of magic to make unbrittle the brittle.

 

The cellulose I pointed out are the old dry ones in the brittle pages. Water from your casting made the old cellulose more ductile. However all the root causes of brittleness especially the lignin, are still there.

 

I was merely pointing out that treating brittleness is entirely a separate, independent process from casting. You can cast brittle pages, but at the end of the day, they are still brittle. Except now they have better reinforcement along areas where there are paper splits...and the pages are easier to handle in a natural comic book way.

 

Again, while leaf casting is a solution for a range of issues, it does not fix brittle paper.

 

Incidentally the test for brittleness is different from testing whether the paper is flexible. Do a google search on "brittle paper test." The real test involves folding a paper corner (not wrapping it around a finger) a number of times and seeing if it breaks or unfolds.

 

 

Man what a .

[seanfingh]

Every now and then a kid you grew up with does something great or hits the big time and you get to tell people, "I knew that guy when he was just getting started".

 

Some day we're all going to be saying that about Kenny.

 

He will still be a dorkasaurus rex.

[etanick]

"brought up an interesting point"...I think you are in the minority if you interpret what he wrote as a polite way of bringing up an interesting point.

[joeypost]

I just PM'd Coke and McDonalds. I asked for the recipe for the secret sauce and the formula for coke

 

I like when someone shares. I do not expect them to divulge trade secrets.

[FFB]

First let me say I have allot of respect for Kenny and his work. I think Rockman brought up an interesting point, sure the pictures are impressive and what Kenny is doing is out of this world but what about the details. Kenny doesn't really need to show off at this point as everyone knows he and Matt are the best right now. Allot of people have told me they like details and here there were none about the process itself . It’s not like if he described what he did people are going to buy their own equipment and cheat him out of his business since its not cheap or easy to do. Leaf casting is very complicated and it would have been nice if he walked us through the process and explained what he did to prep the pages. I admit that someday I would like to do leaf casting but even with details it wouldn’t be enough knowledge to start doing the process on my own. Just a thought. (thumbs u

 

Get used to disappointment.

[Ze-man]

 

I was merely pointing out that treating brittleness is entirely a separate, independent process from casting. You can cast brittle pages, but at the end of the day, they are still brittle. Except now they have better reinforcement along areas where there are paper splits...and the pages are easier to handle in a natural comic book way.

 

Again, while leaf casting is a solution for a range of issues, it does not fix brittle paper.

 

Incidentally the test for brittleness is different from testing whether the paper is flexible. Do a google search on "brittle paper test." The real test involves folding a paper corner (not wrapping it around a finger) a number of times and seeing if it breaks or unfolds.

 

 

I would disagree.

 

I tried to convey earlier that just because I didn't spell out everything I did does not mean there were not things done to address the brittle paper before,during or after casting. It is all part of a part of a larger process. Leaf casting itself is just the act of pulling paper through a screen and is only one part of what I would call our leaf casting process.

 

And I hope you can appreciate why I didn't go into specific details in my initial "skimpy post" I actually went into more detail about certain issues then I probably should have. We have simply invested way too much time and money to walk people through what we are doing at this point, If people want to know about the basics of leaf casting they can Google it and learn the exact same things we did when we started. Which isn't much.

 

I was honestly just excited at the results of casting severely brittle pages and thought I would share what I could with everyone because it is such a new process that most people have never seen before. I was reticent to even post about it because the nature of the brittle pages did not allow for what I would consider optimal casting results. But the fact that they were so brittle yet successfully casted on some level outweighed any problems I had along the way.

 

And regarding MIT fold type testing vs severe bending like I did you will just have to take my word on it that this paper is not as brittle as it once was,it may be on a molecular level..but the page as a whole is beefed up and reinforced from the inside out.

 

But this thread was not really intended to be about making brittle paper un brittle, it was about joining brittle pages like this with a new method that lent itself to better conserve the page as a whole.

 

Now stop being such a chemist bookworm and think big picture.

 

 

[Hero Restoration]

First let me say I have allot of respect for Kenny and his work. I think Rockman brought up an interesting point, sure the pictures are impressive and what Kenny is doing is out of this world but what about the details. Kenny doesn't really need to show off at this point as everyone knows he and Matt are the best right now. Allot of people have told me they like details and here there were none about the process itself . It’s not like if he described what he did people are going to buy their own equipment and cheat him out of his business since its not cheap or easy to do. Leaf casting is very complicated and it would have been nice if he walked us through the process and explained what he did to prep the pages. I admit that someday I would like to do leaf casting but even with details it wouldn’t be enough knowledge to start doing the process on my own. Just a thought. (thumbs u

 

Get used to disappointment.

 

I can see that.

[towards2112]

 

I was merely pointing out that treating brittleness is entirely a separate, independent process from casting. You can cast brittle pages, but at the end of the day, they are still brittle. Except now they have better reinforcement along areas where there are paper splits...and the pages are easier to handle in a natural comic book way.

 

Again, while leaf casting is a solution for a range of issues, it does not fix brittle paper.

 

Incidentally the test for brittleness is different from testing whether the paper is flexible. Do a google search on "brittle paper test." The real test involves folding a paper corner (not wrapping it around a finger) a number of times and seeing if it breaks or unfolds.

 

 

I would disagree.

 

I tried to convey earlier that just because I didn't spell out everything I did does not mean there were not things done to address the brittle paper before,during or after casting. It is all part of a part of a larger process. Leaf casting itself is just the act of pulling paper through a screen and is only one part of what I would call our leaf casting process.

 

And I hope you can appreciate why I didn't go into specific details in my initial "skimpy post" I actually went into more detail about certain issues then I probably should have. We have simply invested way too much time and money to walk people through what we are doing at this point, If people want to know about the basics of leaf casting they can Google it and learn the exact same things we did when we started. Which isn't much.

 

I was honestly just excited at the results of casting severely brittle pages and thought I would share what I could with everyone because it is such a new process that most people have never seen before. I was reticent to even post about it because the nature of the brittle pages did not allow for what I would consider optimal casting results. But the fact that they were so brittle yet successfully casted on some level outweighed any problems I had along the way.

 

And regarding MIT fold type testing vs severe bending like I did you will just have to take my word on it that this paper is not as brittle as it once was,it may be on a molecular level..but the page as a whole is beefed up and reinforced from the inside out.

 

But this thread was not really intended to be about making brittle paper un brittle, it was about joining brittle pages like this with a new method that lent itself to better conserve the page as a whole.

 

Now stop being such a chemist bookworm and think big picture.

 

 

Forest for the trees thing.

Kenny, would it have been easier / wrong to trim the pages to remove

the " into dust " brittle paper back to the " just falling apart" section ?

An silly question I'm sure, but were you attempting to save all the paper,

or did you finger the bad edges to remove the detris ?

[Hero Restoration]

 

I was merely pointing out that treating brittleness is entirely a separate, independent process from casting. You can cast brittle pages, but at the end of the day, they are still brittle. Except now they have better reinforcement along areas where there are paper splits...and the pages are easier to handle in a natural comic book way.

 

Again, while leaf casting is a solution for a range of issues, it does not fix brittle paper.

 

Incidentally the test for brittleness is different from testing whether the paper is flexible. Do a google search on "brittle paper test." The real test involves folding a paper corner (not wrapping it around a finger) a number of times and seeing if it breaks or unfolds.

 

 

I would disagree.

 

I tried to convey earlier that just because I didn't spell out everything I did does not mean there were not things done to address the brittle paper before,during or after casting. It is all part of a part of a larger process. Leaf casting itself is just the act of pulling paper through a screen and is only one part of what I would call our leaf casting process.

 

And I hope you can appreciate why I didn't go into specific details in my initial "skimpy post" I actually went into more detail about certain issues then I probably should have. We have simply invested way too much time and money to walk people through what we are doing at this point, If people want to know about the basics of leaf casting they can Google it and learn the exact same things we did when we started. Which isn't much.

 

I was honestly just excited at the results of casting severely brittle pages and thought I would share what I could with everyone because it is such a new process that most people have never seen before. I was reticent to even post about it because the nature of the brittle pages did not allow for what I would consider optimal casting results. But the fact that they were so brittle yet successfully casted on some level outweighed any problems I had along the way.

 

And regarding MIT fold type testing vs severe bending like I did you will just have to take my word on it that this paper is not as brittle as it once was,it may be on a molecular level..but the page as a whole is beefed up and reinforced from the inside out.

 

But this thread was not really intended to be about making brittle paper un brittle, it was about joining brittle pages like this with a new method that lent itself to better conserve the page as a whole.

 

Now stop being such a chemist bookworm and think big picture.

 

 

Dont get me wrong Kenny, I appreciate what you do share with us. Was just addin my

[Ze-man]

I think trying to remove as much chippy brittle paper would be the way to go towards better results, but then you start losing part of the comic, or worse yet part of the art. So we are trying to leave it as is, similar to how conservationists treat historical documents.

 

No, the pages you see in the before photos were as they were sent to us. They were fingered enough by previous readers.

 

 

 

[buttock]

I've typed up several responses, but none seem to be able to adequately convey what a p rick rockman is being.

[Ze-man]

No worries, in a perfect world I would write it all out for the world to see and share what I know because it is such a neat process. Someday I might. But for now it is a business, and if I can use what we have learned to earn bread for my family I am gonna keep the propitiatory stuff close to the vest for a long while.