And people wonder why folks get a little bit peeved...

[whisp]

Does anyoe know Susan Ciccioni stance on the subject of tape removal if it is restoration or not?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

Let me correct this before it goes any further. Susan stopped doing press-only jobs due to concerns over non-disclosure - NOT because "she doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage." Susan continues to press books as part of the overall restoration process.

 

Susan Ciccioni - No Press Declaration

 

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

 

There's a time limit on these things?

 

Who knew.

[comics-rock]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

Let me correct this before it goes any further. Susan stopped doing press-only jobs due to concerns over non-disclosure - NOT because "she doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage." Susan continues to press books as part of the overall restoration process.

 

Susan Ciccioni - No Press Declaration

 

so, the most highly regarded, most experience comic book restorian considers pressing restoration...

 

That's not exactly breaking news. That declaration is years old, and she released it when she became involved in NOD.

 

Even though Ive been following the boards for a few years and collecting comics for almost 30 years Im still new to the ins and outs of restoration. I love comics, and its obvious everyone on this boards thinks the same ways as I do, or at least used to. Its clear money plays a large part in comics and the arguement that pressing isn't restoration is a mute one. It's restoration. Im not against it and if someone disclosed a comic I wanted to buy was pressed, I wouldn't hesitate to pull the trigger at the same price as another comic, graded the same but unpressed. Now if someone didn't disclose a comic was pressed and I subsequently found out I'd stick my right foot so far up their arse it would take six surgeons, four days to remove it.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

Susan didn't stop solo pressing because of possible damage to comics. She became involved in NOD and took an ethical stance against solo pressing because she thought it encourage greed and nondisclosure in the hobby.

 

I remember it clearly, because I took the position that she might be causing more damage to the hobby by not offering solo pressing. If the professionals stop, then that leaves only the amateurs to take over, and that's what could damage comics.

 

These amateurs, Jeff...

 

Would they include the dozens of boarders who now have their own presses in their studies?

[Dick Pontoon]

 

I have had the good fortune to work with many conservation labs over the last 2 years. They think differently then we do, her reference to "increased heat accelerates paper aging" more then likely refers to the various MIT fold tests conducted to test a papers strength after being baked in an oven, but since she did not quote specifics it is hard to say what she meant exactly.

 

Your argument that heat pressing causes damage to a comic is not entirely unfounded and worth discussing. All the recent rash of "heat plate johnny's" (for lack of a better term) who are cooking books to try and get a grade are obviously not good for the hobby. But as many have said already in this thread, specific studies that show at what rate a pressed comic book ages, and how much it ages at what temp used are needed to back up the vague reference you have quoted so many times from the LOC to further this conversation beyond opinion.

 

And as long as we are all offering up opinons, I believe pressing if done correctly does not cause any more damage,or even less then a book that was sitting on tarmac for hours waiting to be flown across the globe, carted around by a mailman only to sit on someone's porch for hours in the snow only to be brought in and exposed to a dramatic temp swing.. Both MAY cause damage to the comic on some level, but it is negligible. Not to mention a comic is bought, sold, carted and shipped around the world under god knows what conditions perhaps dozens of times over it's 40 + years. But because pressing is done intentionally for mainly monetary reasons it is singled out as being "bad damage"

 

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Once I saw what pressing involves firsthand it made me realize it was simply not an issue for me. I can understand and respect that it is to others, and that disclosure is the best way for a buyer to make as informed a decision as possible. But to temper that disclosure with the knowledge that a comic is not going to go "poof" any time soon , if ever just because it was pressed.

 

So I say you should spend your time writing up a response Email to the LOC instead of trying to convince everybody the jig is up because of one comment pulled from one email, because I honestly think people would love to discuss real time results of how pressing relates to comics. But aside from the tests Wilson did years ago there simply are none that I am aware of.

 

 

 

[joeypost]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

Susan didn't stop solo pressing because of possible damage to comics. She became involved in NOD and took an ethical stance against solo pressing because she thought it encourage greed and nondisclosure in the hobby.

 

I remember it clearly, because I took the position that she might be causing more damage to the hobby by not offering solo pressing. If the professionals stop, then that leaves only the amateurs to take over, and that's what could damage comics.

 

These amateurs, Jeff...

 

Would they include the dozens of boarders who now have their own presses in their studies?

 

Mine are in my loft.

[nearmint]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

Susan didn't stop solo pressing because of possible damage to comics. She became involved in NOD and took an ethical stance against solo pressing because she thought it encourage greed and nondisclosure in the hobby.

 

I remember it clearly, because I took the position that she might be causing more damage to the hobby by not offering solo pressing. If the professionals stop, then that leaves only the amateurs to take over, and that's what could damage comics.

 

These amateurs, Jeff...

 

Would they include the dozens of boarders who now have their own presses in their studies?

 

I don't have any personal knowledge about the quality of work, or lack thereof, by anyone other than Matt or Susan.

[towards2112]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

Susan didn't stop solo pressing because of possible damage to comics. She became involved in NOD and took an ethical stance against solo pressing because she thought it encourage greed and nondisclosure in the hobby.

 

I remember it clearly, because I took the position that she might be causing more damage to the hobby by not offering solo pressing. If the professionals stop, then that leaves only the amateurs to take over, and that's what could damage comics.

 

These amateurs, Jeff...

 

Would they include the dozens of boarders who now have their own presses in their studies?

 

Mine are in my loft.

 

Oh, mine is indeed in the study. (thumbs u

[nearmint]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

It could have something to do with the type of books Susan is more likely to assigned to work on. A wise person once told me that you shouldn't press high value books. It could be that there is something to the damage aspect, but it could just also be that it isn't worth Susan's time (and may I add it doesn't exactly do anything to uphold her unblemished reputation). Its not to say that the work is beneath her (and it certainly must be profitable for Matt to have taken it on as a service), but asking Susan to strictly do pressing work is like asking someone with Julliard School training to divide their professional career by teaching kids to play music out of their home. Its great when you hear stories of people doing things like this, but the reality is that you must really want to do it as it takes a toll on your time and capacity to maintain a professional standing. Sometimes the time factor alone is enough for someone to opt out.

Susan is a very nice woman. I had the pleasure of having dinner with her after NYCC this year. I didnt bother asking about pressing, because quite frankly I dont care enough. I doubt she would deny possible damage done to a book by adding moisture and heat. But on the other hand I doubt it is going to have quite as severe reprecussions as some would have you believe. Now if I am wrong, there will be alot of brittle books in the future.

 

Keep in mind that Susan still presses books as part of a larger process. I doubt that she believes she's damaging the book. I'm sure she'd agree that amateurs could damage books through improper pressing.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

Susan didn't stop solo pressing because of possible damage to comics. She became involved in NOD and took an ethical stance against solo pressing because she thought it encourage greed and nondisclosure in the hobby.

 

I remember it clearly, because I took the position that she might be causing more damage to the hobby by not offering solo pressing. If the professionals stop, then that leaves only the amateurs to take over, and that's what could damage comics.

 

These amateurs, Jeff...

 

Would they include the dozens of boarders who now have their own presses in their studies?

 

I don't have any personal knowledge about the quality of work, or lack thereof, by anyone other than Matt or Susan.

 

Well, I wasn't really asking about the quality of the work, more the expertise, training, qualifications, knowledge, of the people now undertaking it.

 

Would these be the amateurs you were concerned about?

[mica]

I'm sure she'd agree that amateurs could damage books through improper pressing.

So how does one get to be a NON amateur?

 

The process is not exactly posted somewhere near as I can tell.

[nearmint]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

Susan didn't stop solo pressing because of possible damage to comics. She became involved in NOD and took an ethical stance against solo pressing because she thought it encourage greed and nondisclosure in the hobby.

 

I remember it clearly, because I took the position that she might be causing more damage to the hobby by not offering solo pressing. If the professionals stop, then that leaves only the amateurs to take over, and that's what could damage comics.

She became involved with NOD because of her stance on disclosure. Not because she hates pressers. I hate when people have to bring the NOD into these debates.

 

This declaration of Susan's was directly related to NOD. Mark played up a "big announcement coming" on the boards for several days before starting a thread where he posted the declaration. And I never said Susan hates pressers.

[lizards2]

I'm sure she'd agree that amateurs could damage books through improper pressing.

So how does one get to be a NON amateur?

 

The process is not exactly posted somewhere near as I can tell.

 

:think: There would probably be some reduction in time spent posting on message boards....,

[Flaming_Telepath]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

Susan didn't stop solo pressing because of possible damage to comics. She became involved in NOD and took an ethical stance against solo pressing because she thought it encourage greed and nondisclosure in the hobby.

 

I remember it clearly, because I took the position that she might be causing more damage to the hobby by not offering solo pressing. If the professionals stop, then that leaves only the amateurs to take over, and that's what could damage comics.

She became involved with NOD because of her stance on disclosure. Not because she hates pressers. I hate when people have to bring the NOD into these debates.

 

This declaration of Susan's was directly related to NOD. Mark played up a "big announcement coming" on the boards for several days before starting a thread where he posted the declaration. And I never said Susan hates pressers.

 

So NOD twisted Susan's arm?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

Susan didn't stop solo pressing because of possible damage to comics. She became involved in NOD and took an ethical stance against solo pressing because she thought it encourage greed and nondisclosure in the hobby.

 

I remember it clearly, because I took the position that she might be causing more damage to the hobby by not offering solo pressing. If the professionals stop, then that leaves only the amateurs to take over, and that's what could damage comics.

She became involved with NOD because of her stance on disclosure. Not because she hates pressers. I hate when people have to bring the NOD into these debates.

 

This declaration of Susan's was directly related to NOD. Mark played up a "big announcement coming" on the boards for several days before starting a thread where he posted the declaration. And I never said Susan hates pressers.

 

So NOD twisted Susan's arm?

Yes, she was bribed with... Ummm...

[VintageComics]

 

So NOD twisted Susan's arm?

 

I personally think the she reacted to her environment at the time. I also believe that she regrets her decision but she has not told me that directly. Just what I have gathered.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

It could have something to do with the type of books Susan is more likely to assigned to work on. A wise person once told me that you shouldn't press high value books. It could be that there is something to the damage aspect, but it could just also be that it isn't worth Susan's time (and may I add it doesn't exactly do anything to uphold her unblemished reputation). Its not to say that the work is beneath her (and it certainly must be profitable for Matt to have taken it on as a service), but asking Susan to strictly do pressing work is like asking someone with Julliard School training to divide their professional career by teaching kids to play music out of their home. Its great when you hear stories of people doing things like this, but the reality is that you must really want to do it as it takes a toll on your time and capacity to maintain a professional standing. Sometimes the time factor alone is enough for someone to opt out.

Susan is a very nice woman. I had the pleasure of having dinner with her after NYCC this year. I didnt bother asking about pressing, because quite frankly I dont care enough. I doubt she would deny possible damage done to a book by adding moisture and heat. But on the other hand I doubt it is going to have quite as severe reprecussions as some would have you believe. Now if I am wrong, there will be alot of brittle books in the future.

 

Keep in mind that Susan still presses books as part of a larger process. I doubt that she believes she's damaging the book. I'm sure she'd agree that amateurs could damage books through improper pressing.

And has always considered this restoration, and should be disclosed as such..

[Flaming_Telepath]

 

So NOD twisted Susan's arm?

 

I personally think the she reacted to her environment at the time. I also believe that she regrets her decision but she has not told me that directly. Just what I have gathered.

 

As the pro-pressers would say...prove it. (thumbs u

[nearmint]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

It could have something to do with the type of books Susan is more likely to assigned to work on. A wise person once told me that you shouldn't press high value books. It could be that there is something to the damage aspect, but it could just also be that it isn't worth Susan's time (and may I add it doesn't exactly do anything to uphold her unblemished reputation). Its not to say that the work is beneath her (and it certainly must be profitable for Matt to have taken it on as a service), but asking Susan to strictly do pressing work is like asking someone with Julliard School training to divide their professional career by teaching kids to play music out of their home. Its great when you hear stories of people doing things like this, but the reality is that you must really want to do it as it takes a toll on your time and capacity to maintain a professional standing. Sometimes the time factor alone is enough for someone to opt out.

Susan is a very nice woman. I had the pleasure of having dinner with her after NYCC this year. I didnt bother asking about pressing, because quite frankly I dont care enough. I doubt she would deny possible damage done to a book by adding moisture and heat. But on the other hand I doubt it is going to have quite as severe reprecussions as some would have you believe. Now if I am wrong, there will be alot of brittle books in the future.

 

Keep in mind that Susan still presses books as part of a larger process. I doubt that she believes she's damaging the book. I'm sure she'd agree that amateurs could damage books through improper pressing.

And has always considered this restoration, and should be disclosed as such..

 

How did we get back to disclosure? This thread took a left turn somewhere.

[nearmint]

Susan , Tracey and Matt all press comics as part of restoring a comic. Susan, and Tracey are self professed "conservation minded" folk, if pressing was overly harmful to the long term life of a comic do you really think they would do it?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Susan now stated that she will no longer press comics unless it's part of a larger overhaul of the book? She doesn't believe that the benefit accrued outweighs the potential damage?

I believe so.

 

So if pressing is not restoration, if it does no damage to the book, if it is ethical and above board...

 

Why would a woman of Susan's knowledge, experience, expertise and stellar reputation (let's face it, she's probably one of the top three restorers/conservators of comic books in the industry, if not the premier) refuse to simply press a book?

 

I mean, it's contrary to Matt Nelson's stand on the issue, so what's the difference between the two of them?

 

Susan didn't stop solo pressing because of possible damage to comics. She became involved in NOD and took an ethical stance against solo pressing because she thought it encourage greed and nondisclosure in the hobby.

 

I remember it clearly, because I took the position that she might be causing more damage to the hobby by not offering solo pressing. If the professionals stop, then that leaves only the amateurs to take over, and that's what could damage comics.

She became involved with NOD because of her stance on disclosure. Not because she hates pressers. I hate when people have to bring the NOD into these debates.

 

This declaration of Susan's was directly related to NOD. Mark played up a "big announcement coming" on the boards for several days before starting a thread where he posted the declaration. And I never said Susan hates pressers.

 

So NOD twisted Susan's arm?

 

I didn't say that.