And people wonder why folks get a little bit peeved...

[slym2none]

I would like to know if it would be a no-no, to post scans of a book on the "Please Grade My" section and ask of those with the ability, to tell me if a specific book is a good candidate for upgrading through pressing. Is that something that would be frowned upon?

 

I would imagine it would by some...

 

 

 

 

-slym

[Domo Arigato]

Incidentally, most drug litigation cases are failure to warn (and a subset of failure to test, in some jurisdictions, that's a separate cause of action) -- thus a manufacturer has put a drug on the market, promoted it for benefits, but not tested or warned of a potential significant harm (for HRT, breast cancer, Paxil, heart malformations and death in infants, so on and so forth).

 

In the pressing analogy, it'd be, someone knew or should have known that pressing was harmful to the books but failed to warn of the harm. Here, the key would be finding who owed a duty to the customer buying a book and should they have known that pressing was harmful.

But in this case, many pressers are making a specific claim. Not failing to warn. They are actually claiming that pressing does no harm to a book with no evidence to back this claim up.

 

Well, strictly following this claim, I'm not sure the drug analogy is best then. But following through with the analogy would be this -- it would be like a drug company saying, our drug does (x) -- promote it for say a benefit, but then it later comes out through studies, no it actually doesn't do what it says AND oh by the way it's actually harmful.

 

So pressing does no harm --

 

Of course here the problem is, it is not generally accepted, nor is there adequate evidence to say that the pro pressers are saying, hey, there's nothing wrong with pressing, but you can prove they actually knew it.

 

In the drug context, usually we have documents and internal corporate documents which show they were on notice of the harm.

Are you saying a drug manufacturer can make a claim about a drug..like saying it is not known to cause birth defects in women who are pregnant...or that it does cure breast cancer...without actually doing any tests prior to making this claim to back it up?

 

If you are, then I'd say you're drinking on the job. If you aren't, then my analogy is more than applicable in this situation and any attempt to nitpick the semantics of it are childish in the extreme.

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

And as I've already pointed out...it's up to the pressers to substantiate the claims that many have made that it does no damage to the book. And if they do admit that it causes damage, it's not our responsibility to tell them how much. They're the ones manipulating the books...it's their responsibility to find out how much damage their process does and disclose it to their customers.

 

 

You're lumping 2 groups of people together and it's wrong. Those who say zero damage is caused by pressing. And those who say it's possible pressing may cause damage but we're not sure how much.

 

As has been pointed out to you a half dozen times already, who are these "many" pressers you are talking about who claim zero damage? If they do exist I suggest you take up your argument with them. And not with the folks like Jeff or George or myself who say damage may be being done but to what extent is not known.

 

Of course your only rebuttal to this seems to be to tell the folks who are uncertain to go confront these mystery people. Why? If you are so sure, you go confront them directly instead of harping on Jeff for things he hasn't said. Or are you too lazy to confront them yourself? Why should Jeff or I confront them. We're not in a battle with them, you are. So go fight your own fight with those people. We've already acknowledged the possibility that damage may be occurring.

 

As for who is responsibly for proving there is or is not damage being done. That's a matter of opinion.

 

I personally think the following:

 

1. If you are one of these mystery people who claim no harm is being done by pressing. Please prove it.

 

2. On the flip side of that coin, if you are one of those people who claim unequivocally that pressing causes damage, then please prove it.

 

There's no law that says people on either side of this debate are immune from doing the legwork. If somebody wants to be vindicated, then do the work. That goes for both sides.

 

As for those who are uncertain, like myself. I don't really see myself as having a dog in this fight. I'm not 100% positive there's damage being done. But then again I sure as heck am not claiming that it's not possible am I?

 

 

[Shootydog]

Why do you think it's ok for them to do that? I don't feel that's right.

 

This is a car wreck. Just can't get away from it.

 

I haven't seen once where Jeff has said it's okay for people to say unequivocally that pressing does no damage to comics. You show me where he said that. Otherwise, I suggest you stop asking him why he feels its ok when he hasn't said anything of the sort.

 

I'm still waiting for you or anyone on the anti pressing side to address this notion of damage and give any evidence you can as to how significant it is or will become some day. Matter of fact, that question is open to anyone. If anyone can provide hard evidence as to the extent of damage pressing causes, I would love to hear it.

By arguing the line of defense that he is, he is inferring that it's ok. I'm just asking him why.

 

And as I've already pointed out...it's up to the pressers to substantiate the claims that many have made that it does no damage to the book. And if they do admit that it causes damage, it's not our responsibility to tell them how much. They're the ones manipulating the books...it's their responsibility to find out how much damage their process does and disclose it to their customers.

 

wildly_fanciful_statement...it works both ways. If you have such a hardon that it does damage than prove your side of the argument. Otherwise the argument is just a he said she said and I...the average comic consumer...will stay squarely in the middle and watch you to play chicken until the other budges.

 

Substantiate your vociferous argument....or can you? You simply don't know how much damage it does or doesn't and your too lazy to do the legwork to back it up. So you argue your side based solely on personal conviction?

 

Noble but pointless. It's like arguing the existence of God if you follow this line of thinking.

[Domo Arigato]

 

And as I've already pointed out...it's up to the pressers to substantiate the claims that many have made that it does no damage to the book. And if they do admit that it causes damage, it's not our responsibility to tell them how much. They're the ones manipulating the books...it's their responsibility to find out how much damage their process does and disclose it to their customers.

You're lumping 2 groups of people together and it's wrong. Those who say zero damage is caused by pressing. And those who say it's possible pressing may cause damage but we're not sure how much.

 

As has been pointed out to you a half dozen times already, who are these "many" pressers you are talking about who claim zero damage? If they do exist I suggest you take up your argument with them. And not with the folks like Jeff or George or myself who say damage may be being done but to what extent is not known.

 

Of course your only rebuttal to this seems to be to tell the folks who are uncertain to go confront these mystery people. Why? If you are so sure, you go confront them directly instead of harping on Jeff for things he hasn't said. Or are you too lazy to confront them yourself? Why should Jeff or I confront them. We're not in a battle with them, you are. So go fight your own fight with those people. We've already acknowledged the possibility that damage may be occurring.

 

As for who is responsibly for proving there is or is not damage being done. That's a matter of opinion.

 

I personally think the following:

 

1. If you are one of these mystery people who claim no harm is being done by pressing. Please prove it.

 

2. On the flip side of that coin, if you are one of those people who claim unequivocally that pressing causes damage, then please prove it.

 

There's no law that says people on either side of this debate are immune from doing the legwork. If somebody wants to be vindicated, then do the work. That goes for both sides.

 

As for those who are uncertain, like myself. I don't really see myself as having a dog in this fight. I'm not 100% positive there's damage being done. But then again I sure as heck am not claiming that it's not possible am I?

Read through this thread. There are several people in here who have made that very claim. I'm not your researcher. I'm also not lumping the two groups together. And I didn't take up my argument with Jeff and George. They have taken it up with me and are free to walk away from it at any time if they so desire.

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

wildly_fanciful_statement...it works both ways. If you have such a hardon that it does damage than prove your side of the argument. Otherwise the argument is just a he said she said and I...the average comic consumer...will stay squarely in the middle and watch you to play chicken until the other budges.

 

Substantiate your vociferous argument....or can you? You simply don't know how much damage it does or doesn't. So you argue your side based solely on personal conviction?

 

Noble but pointless. It's like arguing the existence of God if you follow this line of thinking.

 

 

 

Although it appears Domo would like those of us in the middle to go head on against the pro pressers.

 

I seriously tried to recall a single poster in this thread that said without a doubt pressing does not cause damage to a book. I can't recall a single person who said that. On the other hand I can recall numerous folks saying its possible and merely questioning to what extent of damage are we talking about.

[nearmint]

Incidentally, most drug litigation cases are failure to warn (and a subset of failure to test, in some jurisdictions, that's a separate cause of action) -- thus a manufacturer has put a drug on the market, promoted it for benefits, but not tested or warned of a potential significant harm (for HRT, breast cancer, Paxil, heart malformations and death in infants, so on and so forth).

 

In the pressing analogy, it'd be, someone knew or should have known that pressing was harmful to the books but failed to warn of the harm. Here, the key would be finding who owed a duty to the customer buying a book and should they have known that pressing was harmful.

But in this case, many pressers are making a specific claim. Not failing to warn. They are actually claiming that pressing does no harm to a book with no evidence to back this claim up.

 

If the notion of a pressed book causes you so much grief, don't buy any more books. Then, I can guarantee you that you will not have to deal with pressed books. Sounds like paradise, doesn't it? You can instead collect...ceramic shoes...or barbed wire. Your blood pressure gets so high that from my central Florida residence, I can hear the steam whistling from your ears.

 

I think Domo's passion for argument is far greater than his desire for virgin funny books.

I'm going to lunch.

Why are you going to lunch now? I don't think you should be going to lunch until this is settled. What gives you the right to go to lunch at a time like this.

 

You're joking, right?

[Domo Arigato]

Why do you think it's ok for them to do that? I don't feel that's right.

 

This is a car wreck. Just can't get away from it.

 

I haven't seen once where Jeff has said it's okay for people to say unequivocally that pressing does no damage to comics. You show me where he said that. Otherwise, I suggest you stop asking him why he feels its ok when he hasn't said anything of the sort.

 

I'm still waiting for you or anyone on the anti pressing side to address this notion of damage and give any evidence you can as to how significant it is or will become some day. Matter of fact, that question is open to anyone. If anyone can provide hard evidence as to the extent of damage pressing causes, I would love to hear it.

By arguing the line of defense that he is, he is inferring that it's ok. I'm just asking him why.

 

And as I've already pointed out...it's up to the pressers to substantiate the claims that many have made that it does no damage to the book. And if they do admit that it causes damage, it's not our responsibility to tell them how much. They're the ones manipulating the books...it's their responsibility to find out how much damage their process does and disclose it to their customers.

 

wildly_fanciful_statement...it works both ways. If you have such a hardon that it does damage than prove your side of the argument. Otherwise the argument is just a he said she said and I...the average comic consumer...will stay squarely in the middle and watch you to play chicken until the other budges.

 

Substantiate your vociferous argument....or can you? You simply don't know how much damage it does or doesn't and your too lazy to do the legwork to back it up. So you argue your side based solely on personal conviction?

 

Noble but pointless. It's like arguing the existence of God if you follow this line of thinking.

That's just it. It doesn't work both ways. Those performing the service and making the claims are the ones responsible for backing them up. Not the other way around. Otherwise...they should stop lying about it.

[Domo Arigato]

Incidentally, most drug litigation cases are failure to warn (and a subset of failure to test, in some jurisdictions, that's a separate cause of action) -- thus a manufacturer has put a drug on the market, promoted it for benefits, but not tested or warned of a potential significant harm (for HRT, breast cancer, Paxil, heart malformations and death in infants, so on and so forth).

 

In the pressing analogy, it'd be, someone knew or should have known that pressing was harmful to the books but failed to warn of the harm. Here, the key would be finding who owed a duty to the customer buying a book and should they have known that pressing was harmful.

But in this case, many pressers are making a specific claim. Not failing to warn. They are actually claiming that pressing does no harm to a book with no evidence to back this claim up.

 

If the notion of a pressed book causes you so much grief, don't buy any more books. Then, I can guarantee you that you will not have to deal with pressed books. Sounds like paradise, doesn't it? You can instead collect...ceramic shoes...or barbed wire. Your blood pressure gets so high that from my central Florida residence, I can hear the steam whistling from your ears.

 

I think Domo's passion for argument is far greater than his desire for virgin funny books.

I'm going to lunch.

Why are you going to lunch now? I don't think you should be going to lunch until this is settled. What gives you the right to go to lunch at a time like this.

 

You're joking, right?

Yes. Although obviously not very well.

[Domo Arigato]

 

wildly_fanciful_statement...it works both ways. If you have such a hardon that it does damage than prove your side of the argument. Otherwise the argument is just a he said she said and I...the average comic consumer...will stay squarely in the middle and watch you to play chicken until the other budges.

 

Substantiate your vociferous argument....or can you? You simply don't know how much damage it does or doesn't. So you argue your side based solely on personal conviction?

 

Noble but pointless. It's like arguing the existence of God if you follow this line of thinking.

 

 

 

Although it appears Domo would like those of us in the middle to go head on against the pro pressers.

 

I seriously tried to recall a single poster in this thread that said without a doubt pressing does not cause damage to a book. I can't recall a single person who said that. On the other hand I can recall numerous folks saying its possible and merely questioning to what extent of damage are we talking about.

I'll do your research for you for a price. I won't do it for you for free.

[hockey&comicsguy]

Read through this thread. There are several people in here who have made that very claim. I'm not your researcher. I'm also not lumping the two groups together. And I didn't take up my argument with Jeff and George. They have taken it up with me and are free to walk away from it at any time if they so desire.

 

 

I'm not going to do any research on who these people are because it's not my fight. And for that matter I certainly don't see them chiming in right now, whoever they are. So I would say you are lashing out at the wrong people. If you know who those people are, feel free to quote them and engage them directly. Why don't you do that? Why don't you name names? Because you CAN'T? Oh wait, are you waiting for me to engage them and fight your fight for you?

 

You keep asking Jeff why he thinks its ok for those mystery people to "lie" when he hasn't said anything like that. You sir, are a liar unless you can show me where Jeff said it's ok for pressers to lie that no damage is being done.

 

I am curious to know who these people are that are so positive that there is no damage being done. I would look at it as a personal favor if you would name names, since you know who they are. I'm with you in principle, that these people should prove their claims. So can you please tell me who they are and I will be more than happy to question them...........since somebody apparently has to fight your battles for you.

 

 

 

[Shootydog]

Why do you think it's ok for them to do that? I don't feel that's right.

 

This is a car wreck. Just can't get away from it.

 

I haven't seen once where Jeff has said it's okay for people to say unequivocally that pressing does no damage to comics. You show me where he said that. Otherwise, I suggest you stop asking him why he feels its ok when he hasn't said anything of the sort.

 

I'm still waiting for you or anyone on the anti pressing side to address this notion of damage and give any evidence you can as to how significant it is or will become some day. Matter of fact, that question is open to anyone. If anyone can provide hard evidence as to the extent of damage pressing causes, I would love to hear it.

By arguing the line of defense that he is, he is inferring that it's ok. I'm just asking him why.

 

And as I've already pointed out...it's up to the pressers to substantiate the claims that many have made that it does no damage to the book. And if they do admit that it causes damage, it's not our responsibility to tell them how much. They're the ones manipulating the books...it's their responsibility to find out how much damage their process does and disclose it to their customers.

 

wildly_fanciful_statement...it works both ways. If you have such a hardon that it does damage than prove your side of the argument. Otherwise the argument is just a he said she said and I...the average comic consumer...will stay squarely in the middle and watch you to play chicken until the other budges.

 

Substantiate your vociferous argument....or can you? You simply don't know how much damage it does or doesn't and your too lazy to do the legwork to back it up. So you argue your side based solely on personal conviction?

 

Noble but pointless. It's like arguing the existence of God if you follow this line of thinking.

That's just it. It doesn't work both ways. Those performing the service and making the claims are the ones responsible for backing them up. Not the other way around. Otherwise...stop lying about it.

 

If you dont offer the evidence necessary to prove your point how can you possibly hope to change the system?

 

I believe you enjoy the argument more than you have any real conviction on the actual topic.

 

Im through reading this thread.

 

Pressing is not resto.

 

and I still don't care if a book is pressed

[Mr. Zipper]

Enough of this nonsense. Can we get to the Hitler analogy already?

[hockey&comicsguy]

 

wildly_fanciful_statement...it works both ways. If you have such a hardon that it does damage than prove your side of the argument. Otherwise the argument is just a he said she said and I...the average comic consumer...will stay squarely in the middle and watch you to play chicken until the other budges.

 

Substantiate your vociferous argument....or can you? You simply don't know how much damage it does or doesn't. So you argue your side based solely on personal conviction?

 

Noble but pointless. It's like arguing the existence of God if you follow this line of thinking.

 

 

 

Although it appears Domo would like those of us in the middle to go head on against the pro pressers.

 

I seriously tried to recall a single poster in this thread that said without a doubt pressing does not cause damage to a book. I can't recall a single person who said that. On the other hand I can recall numerous folks saying its possible and merely questioning to what extent of damage are we talking about.

I'll do your research for you for a price. I won't do it for you for free.

 

 

Don't bother. I'm really not that concerned. I don't think these people exist. I think you've basically created them out of thin air and this imaginary group of people has now become a reality for you. I don't have a problem with non existent people. You do, so you go toe to toe with them. Call one of them out. I would love to see that debate.

[FlyingDonut]

Enough of this nonsense. Can we get to the Hitler analogy already?

 

[Domo Arigato]

Read through this thread. There are several people in here who have made that very claim. I'm not your researcher. I'm also not lumping the two groups together. And I didn't take up my argument with Jeff and George. They have taken it up with me and are free to walk away from it at any time if they so desire.

I'm not going to do any research on who these people are because it's not my fight. And for that matter I certainly don't see them chiming in right now, whoever they are. So I would say you are lashing out at the wrong people. If you know who those people are, feel free to quote them and engage them directly. Why don't you do that? Why don't you name names? Because you CAN'T? Oh wait, are you waiting for me to engage them and fight your fight for you?

 

You keep asking Jeff why he thinks its ok for those mystery people to "lie" when he hasn't said anything like that. You sir, are a liar unless you can show me where Jeff said it's ok for pressers to lie that no damage is being done.

 

I am curious to know who these people are that are so positive that there is no damage being done. I would look at it as a personal favor if you would name names, since you know who they are. I'm with you in principle, that these people should prove their claims. So can you please tell me who they are and I will be more than happy to question them...........since somebody apparently has to fight your battles for you.

I'm not lashing out at the wrong people. I responding to those who feel the need to lash out at me. And Jeff didn't say those words, he inferred it. I'm just asking him why. And to get the names you desire, simply go back and read this thread. The information you desire is right there...you either don't honestly want it...or are too lazy to get it for yourself.

 

But I'll tell you what...I'll give you the first name (Dale) of one individual who is "pro-pressing" and has stated that it does no damage. There are others...but that's all you get for free. Maybe now you can put the TV remote down, crawl off the couch, and actually do something for yourself.

[Domo Arigato]

Why do you think it's ok for them to do that? I don't feel that's right.

 

This is a car wreck. Just can't get away from it.

 

I haven't seen once where Jeff has said it's okay for people to say unequivocally that pressing does no damage to comics. You show me where he said that. Otherwise, I suggest you stop asking him why he feels its ok when he hasn't said anything of the sort.

 

I'm still waiting for you or anyone on the anti pressing side to address this notion of damage and give any evidence you can as to how significant it is or will become some day. Matter of fact, that question is open to anyone. If anyone can provide hard evidence as to the extent of damage pressing causes, I would love to hear it.

By arguing the line of defense that he is, he is inferring that it's ok. I'm just asking him why.

 

And as I've already pointed out...it's up to the pressers to substantiate the claims that many have made that it does no damage to the book. And if they do admit that it causes damage, it's not our responsibility to tell them how much. They're the ones manipulating the books...it's their responsibility to find out how much damage their process does and disclose it to their customers.

 

wildly_fanciful_statement...it works both ways. If you have such a hardon that it does damage than prove your side of the argument. Otherwise the argument is just a he said she said and I...the average comic consumer...will stay squarely in the middle and watch you to play chicken until the other budges.

 

Substantiate your vociferous argument....or can you? You simply don't know how much damage it does or doesn't and your too lazy to do the legwork to back it up. So you argue your side based solely on personal conviction?

 

Noble but pointless. It's like arguing the existence of God if you follow this line of thinking.

That's just it. It doesn't work both ways. Those performing the service and making the claims are the ones responsible for backing them up. Not the other way around. Otherwise...stop lying about it.

If you dont offer the evidence necessary to prove your point how can you possibly hope to change the system?

 

I believe you enjoy the argument more than you have any real conviction on the actual topic.

 

Im through reading this thread.

 

Pressing is not resto.

 

and I still don't care if a book is pressed

I've already seen some in here finally admit that pressing could be doing some damage to the comics. Looks to me like there's been some change going on already. And I'm not offering the evidence because I'm not the one making the claim or hiding the fact of the potential damage from my customers. It's up to those who are manipulating the books to either prove that it does no harm...or proactively disclose the work and the damage it causes.

 

And I'll agree with you somewhat...pressing doesn't appear to be resto...it actually appears to be restoration with a little bit of destruction thrown in for good measure.

[Domo Arigato]

 

wildly_fanciful_statement...it works both ways. If you have such a hardon that it does damage than prove your side of the argument. Otherwise the argument is just a he said she said and I...the average comic consumer...will stay squarely in the middle and watch you to play chicken until the other budges.

 

Substantiate your vociferous argument....or can you? You simply don't know how much damage it does or doesn't. So you argue your side based solely on personal conviction?

 

Noble but pointless. It's like arguing the existence of God if you follow this line of thinking.

 

 

 

Although it appears Domo would like those of us in the middle to go head on against the pro pressers.

 

I seriously tried to recall a single poster in this thread that said without a doubt pressing does not cause damage to a book. I can't recall a single person who said that. On the other hand I can recall numerous folks saying its possible and merely questioning to what extent of damage are we talking about.

I'll do your research for you for a price. I won't do it for you for free.

 

 

Don't bother. I'm really not that concerned. I don't think these people exist. I think you've basically created them out of thin air and this imaginary group of people has now become a reality for you. I don't have a problem with non existent people. You do, so you go toe to toe with them. Call one of them out. I would love to see that debate.

I've already called at least one out in this thread...which leads me to believe you haven't actually even read it.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

I predict this thread will be locked by morning.

[nearmint]

Read through this thread. There are several people in here who have made that very claim. I'm not your researcher. I'm also not lumping the two groups together. And I didn't take up my argument with Jeff and George. They have taken it up with me and are free to walk away from it at any time if they so desire.

I'm not going to do any research on who these people are because it's not my fight. And for that matter I certainly don't see them chiming in right now, whoever they are. So I would say you are lashing out at the wrong people. If you know who those people are, feel free to quote them and engage them directly. Why don't you do that? Why don't you name names? Because you CAN'T? Oh wait, are you waiting for me to engage them and fight your fight for you?

 

You keep asking Jeff why he thinks its ok for those mystery people to "lie" when he hasn't said anything like that. You sir, are a liar unless you can show me where Jeff said it's ok for pressers to lie that no damage is being done.

 

I am curious to know who these people are that are so positive that there is no damage being done. I would look at it as a personal favor if you would name names, since you know who they are. I'm with you in principle, that these people should prove their claims. So can you please tell me who they are and I will be more than happy to question them...........since somebody apparently has to fight your battles for you.

I'm not lashing out at the wrong people. I responding to those who feel the need to lash out at me. And Jeff didn't say those words, he inferred it. I'm just asking him why. And to get the names you desire, simply go back and read this thread. The information you desire is right there...you either don't honestly want it...or are too lazy to get it for yourself.

 

But I'll tell you what...I'll give you the first name (Dale) of one individual who is "pro-pressing" and has stated that it does no damage. There are others...but that's all you get for free. Maybe now you can put the TV remote down, crawl off the couch, and actually do something for yourself.

 

Here's what Dale said:

 

Personally, if the only change is that the book will last 400 years as opposed to 420 years, I could care less.

 

Clearly, Dale falls into the "there may be damage, but if there is it's so ridiculously benign that there's no use worrying about it" crowd. He does not claim that absolutely no damage is done.