And people wonder why folks get a little bit peeved...

[mschmidt]

But I'll tell you what...I'll give you the first name (Dale) of one individual who is "pro-pressing" and has stated that it does no damage. There are others...but that's all you get for free. Maybe now you can put the TV remote down, crawl off the couch, and actually do something for yourself.

 

Dale has not stated in this thread that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books.

Nor has anyone else.

 

Why do you feel the need to lie about something that's so easy to check?

Yes he has. Why do you feel the need to lie about me in an attempt to discredit me?

 

Then give us the quote where Dale says that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books, please - because I read through the entire thread, and there isn't one. Which means that, yes, you are in fact lying here.

 

I don't really think you need my help to discredit yourself, though - you seem to be doing a bang-up job of that yourself (thumbs u

[Domo Arigato]

Why do you think it's ok for them to do that? I don't feel that's right.

 

This is a car wreck. Just can't get away from it.

 

I haven't seen once where Jeff has said it's okay for people to say unequivocally that pressing does no damage to comics. You show me where he said that. Otherwise, I suggest you stop asking him why he feels its ok when he hasn't said anything of the sort.

 

I'm still waiting for you or anyone on the anti pressing side to address this notion of damage and give any evidence you can as to how significant it is or will become some day. Matter of fact, that question is open to anyone. If anyone can provide hard evidence as to the extent of damage pressing causes, I would love to hear it.

By arguing the line of defense that he is, he is inferring that it's ok. I'm just asking him why.

 

And as I've already pointed out...it's up to the pressers to substantiate the claims that many have made that it does no damage to the book. And if they do admit that it causes damage, it's not our responsibility to tell them how much. They're the ones manipulating the books...it's their responsibility to find out how much damage their process does and disclose it to their customers.

 

wildly_fanciful_statement...it works both ways. If you have such a hardon that it does damage than prove your side of the argument. Otherwise the argument is just a he said she said and I...the average comic consumer...will stay squarely in the middle and watch you to play chicken until the other budges.

 

Substantiate your vociferous argument....or can you? You simply don't know how much damage it does or doesn't and your too lazy to do the legwork to back it up. So you argue your side based solely on personal conviction?

 

Noble but pointless. It's like arguing the existence of God if you follow this line of thinking.

That's just it. It doesn't work both ways. Those performing the service and making the claims are the ones responsible for backing them up. Not the other way around. Otherwise...stop lying about it.

If you dont offer the evidence necessary to prove your point how can you possibly hope to change the system?

 

I believe you enjoy the argument more than you have any real conviction on the actual topic.

 

Im through reading this thread.

 

Pressing is not resto.

 

and I still don't care if a book is pressed

I've already seen some in here finally admit that pressing could be doing some damage to the comics. Looks to me like there's been some change going on already. And I'm not offering the evidence because I'm not the one making the claim or hiding the fact of the potential damage from my customers. It's up to those who are manipulating the books to either prove that it does no harm...or proactively disclose the work and the damage it causes.

 

And I'll agree with you somewhat...pressing doesn't appear to be resto...it actually appears to be restoration with a little bit of destruction thrown in for good measure.

 

 

This is hilarious if you read it.

 

You yourself say these sellers may be hiding "potential" harm.

 

What's potential about it. You absolutely ARE MAKING A CLAIM. You claim the harm is absolute fact. "destruction thrown in" are your words.

 

So do you want people to agree that it causes damage or that it potentially causes damage?

 

Am I missing something? Did you not say that pressing causes damage to comics? Because if you did, that sure as sounds like a claim that's being made.

 

And don't deflect. This isn't to say the other side isn't making their own claims. Just that you are making your own.

 

So apparently other people have to prove their claims but you don't have to prove yours? I see how this game works now.

The Library of Congress has done numerous tests that determined that increased heat accelerates the aging process of the type of paper that comics are made of. Pressers uses increased heat to press comics. The LOC stated very clearly that they don't recommend this process. The word "potential" was nothing more than a mistake on my part and shouldn't have been included in the sentence. Sorry...I didn't realize something like that could make the vein in your forehead explode so easily.

 

Show me where in the quote from the LOC that they state that they conducted the studies.

I can't. So I'll correct myself. Either they've done them or they have access to multiple studies that have been done on this type of paper. Now let's move onto your next big groundbreaking point.

[Domo Arigato]

But I'll tell you what...I'll give you the first name (Dale) of one individual who is "pro-pressing" and has stated that it does no damage. There are others...but that's all you get for free. Maybe now you can put the TV remote down, crawl off the couch, and actually do something for yourself.

 

Dale has not stated in this thread that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books.

Nor has anyone else.

 

Why do you feel the need to lie about something that's so easy to check?

Yes he has. Why do you feel the need to lie about me in an attempt to discredit me?

 

Then give us the quote where Dale says that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic book, please - because I read through the entire thread, and there isn't one. Which means that, yes, you are in fact lying here.

 

I don't really think you need my help to discredit yourself, though - you seem to be doing a bang-up job of that yourself (thumbs u

I just quoted one of the instances in this very thread. So you are obviously not being truthful about reading the whole thing.

[Domo Arigato]

 

Here's what Dale said:

 

Personally, if the only change is that the book will last 400 years as opposed to 420 years, I could care less.

 

Clearly, Dale falls into the "there may be damage, but if there is it's so ridiculously benign that there's no use worrying about it" crowd. He does not claim that absolutely no damage is done.

 

Now Jeff, don't go throwing facts about.

It appears he likes to throw selective facts and half truths around. Unfortunately, neither of them does anybody any good.

 

It should be telling to you that not even the anti-pressers are backing you up here. You are truly an island.

They're probably tired of arguing against half-truths, lies and nonsense. I'm not.

[slym2none]

Show me where in the quote from the LOC that they state that they conducted the studies.

 

I'll chime in on this one - if it's good enough for the LOC, whether they did the studies or a research facility that has the LOC's "stamp of approval," then it's good enough for me.

 

 

 

-slym

[conditionfreak]

But I'll tell you what...I'll give you the first name (Dale) of one individual who is "pro-pressing" and has stated that it does no damage. There are others...but that's all you get for free. Maybe now you can put the TV remote down, crawl off the couch, and actually do something for yourself.

 

Dale has not stated in this thread that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books.

Nor has anyone else.

 

Why do you feel the need to lie about something that's so easy to check?

Yes he has. Why do you feel the need to lie about me in an attempt to discredit me?

 

Then give us the quote where Dale says that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books, please - because I read through the entire thread, and there isn't one. Which means that, yes, you are in fact lying here.

 

I don't really think you need my help to discredit yourself, though - you seem to be doing a bang-up job of that yourself (thumbs u

 

How would you interpret this statement?

 

"Well, you can tell by the look of the book that no damage is being done on a current level. In fact, damage is being removed. My evidence is that I can turn a 9.2 book into a 9.8 book. That is damage removed, not created."

 

This is a quote from Dale (whom I like and have sooo much in common with, be it politics, religion, etc.)

 

Domo is not lying. He may have a different interpretation than you or others, but no, he is not lying. His points have been spot on as far as I can tell. They are contrary to how many here see this subject, but he is not a liar.

 

I don't know him nor you, and don't care much about pressing. But I do care about the truth.

[Mr. Zipper]

It should be telling to you that not even the anti-pressers are backing you up here. You are truly an island.

 

The thread long ago reached the point where both sides try to dissect every word of the opposing side to "prove" their point or demonstrate some fatal inconsistency in the argument. Most people don't have the time or inclination to engage in this kind of nonsensical "gotcha" debate.

 

Once the main point is lost and the debate devolves into how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, time to change the channel.

 

For the record, I think Domo made some good points, but it was kinda obscured once the FDA and other red herrings entered the fray.

[nearmint]

Why do you think it's ok for them to do that? I don't feel that's right.

 

This is a car wreck. Just can't get away from it.

 

I haven't seen once where Jeff has said it's okay for people to say unequivocally that pressing does no damage to comics. You show me where he said that. Otherwise, I suggest you stop asking him why he feels its ok when he hasn't said anything of the sort.

 

I'm still waiting for you or anyone on the anti pressing side to address this notion of damage and give any evidence you can as to how significant it is or will become some day. Matter of fact, that question is open to anyone. If anyone can provide hard evidence as to the extent of damage pressing causes, I would love to hear it.

By arguing the line of defense that he is, he is inferring that it's ok. I'm just asking him why.

 

And as I've already pointed out...it's up to the pressers to substantiate the claims that many have made that it does no damage to the book. And if they do admit that it causes damage, it's not our responsibility to tell them how much. They're the ones manipulating the books...it's their responsibility to find out how much damage their process does and disclose it to their customers.

 

wildly_fanciful_statement...it works both ways. If you have such a hardon that it does damage than prove your side of the argument. Otherwise the argument is just a he said she said and I...the average comic consumer...will stay squarely in the middle and watch you to play chicken until the other budges.

 

Substantiate your vociferous argument....or can you? You simply don't know how much damage it does or doesn't and your too lazy to do the legwork to back it up. So you argue your side based solely on personal conviction?

 

Noble but pointless. It's like arguing the existence of God if you follow this line of thinking.

That's just it. It doesn't work both ways. Those performing the service and making the claims are the ones responsible for backing them up. Not the other way around. Otherwise...stop lying about it.

If you dont offer the evidence necessary to prove your point how can you possibly hope to change the system?

 

I believe you enjoy the argument more than you have any real conviction on the actual topic.

 

Im through reading this thread.

 

Pressing is not resto.

 

and I still don't care if a book is pressed

I've already seen some in here finally admit that pressing could be doing some damage to the comics. Looks to me like there's been some change going on already. And I'm not offering the evidence because I'm not the one making the claim or hiding the fact of the potential damage from my customers. It's up to those who are manipulating the books to either prove that it does no harm...or proactively disclose the work and the damage it causes.

 

And I'll agree with you somewhat...pressing doesn't appear to be resto...it actually appears to be restoration with a little bit of destruction thrown in for good measure.

 

 

This is hilarious if you read it.

 

You yourself say these sellers may be hiding "potential" harm.

 

What's potential about it. You absolutely ARE MAKING A CLAIM. You claim the harm is absolute fact. "destruction thrown in" are your words.

 

So do you want people to agree that it causes damage or that it potentially causes damage?

 

Am I missing something? Did you not say that pressing causes damage to comics? Because if you did, that sure as sounds like a claim that's being made.

 

And don't deflect. This isn't to say the other side isn't making their own claims. Just that you are making your own.

 

So apparently other people have to prove their claims but you don't have to prove yours? I see how this game works now.

The Library of Congress has done numerous tests that determined that increased heat accelerates the aging process of the type of paper that comics are made of. Pressers uses increased heat to press comics. The LOC stated very clearly that they don't recommend this process. The word "potential" was nothing more than a mistake on my part and shouldn't have been included in the sentence. Sorry...I didn't realize something like that could make the vein in your forehead explode so easily.

 

Show me where in the quote from the LOC that they state that they conducted the studies.

I can't. So I'll correct myself. Either they've done them or they have access to multiple studies that have been done on this type of paper. Now let's move onto your next big groundbreaking point.

 

No need. The LOC made a recommendation based on studies that someone performed. If you want to hang your hat on something that nebulous, have at it, but no one is going to take you seriously.

[nearmint]

But I'll tell you what...I'll give you the first name (Dale) of one individual who is "pro-pressing" and has stated that it does no damage. There are others...but that's all you get for free. Maybe now you can put the TV remote down, crawl off the couch, and actually do something for yourself.

 

Dale has not stated in this thread that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books.

Nor has anyone else.

 

Why do you feel the need to lie about something that's so easy to check?

Yes he has. Why do you feel the need to lie about me in an attempt to discredit me?

 

Then give us the quote where Dale says that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books, please - because I read through the entire thread, and there isn't one. Which means that, yes, you are in fact lying here.

 

I don't really think you need my help to discredit yourself, though - you seem to be doing a bang-up job of that yourself (thumbs u

 

How would you interpret this statement?

 

"Well, you can tell by the look of the book that no damage is being done on a current level. In fact, damage is being removed. My evidence is that I can turn a 9.2 book into a 9.8 book. That is damage removed, not created."

 

This is a quote from Dale (whom I like and have sooo much in common with, be it politics, religion, etc.)

 

Domo is not lying. He may have a different interpretation than you or others, but no, he is not lying. His points have been spot on as far as I can tell. They are contrary to how many here see this subject, but he is not a liar.

 

I don't know him nor you, and don't care much about pressing. But I do care about the truth.

 

You're not being fair. What was the last sentence of that post from Dale?

[mschmidt]

But I'll tell you what...I'll give you the first name (Dale) of one individual who is "pro-pressing" and has stated that it does no damage. There are others...but that's all you get for free. Maybe now you can put the TV remote down, crawl off the couch, and actually do something for yourself.

 

Dale has not stated in this thread that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books.

Nor has anyone else.

 

Why do you feel the need to lie about something that's so easy to check?

Yes he has. Why do you feel the need to lie about me in an attempt to discredit me?

 

Then give us the quote where Dale says that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic book, please - because I read through the entire thread, and there isn't one. Which means that, yes, you are in fact lying here.

 

I don't really think you need my help to discredit yourself, though - you seem to be doing a bang-up job of that yourself (thumbs u

I just quoted one of the instances in this very thread. So you are obviously not being truthful about reading the whole thing.

 

No, you didn't. What you quoted was this:

 

Pressing is simply a flattening process. Doesn't do anything else.

which is Dale talking about why he doesn't consider pressing restoration.

 

You have claimed over & over again that "numerous" pro-pressers have repeatedly stated in this thread that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books, so why is it so hard for you to come up with just one example of anyone saying this?

[Domo Arigato]

I can't. So I'll correct myself. Either they've done them or they have access to multiple studies that have been done on this type of paper. Now let's move onto your next big groundbreaking point.

 

No need. The LOC made a recommendation based on studies that someone performed. If you want to hang your hat on something that nebulous, have at it, but no one is going to take you seriously.

Yes...they made a recommendation based on the facts of what they know will happen to the paper. You just don't want to accpet it.

[MrBedrock]

For anyone to attempt to argue the ridiculous semantics about it is just par for the course for some of the pro-pressing crowd in here and is childish at best.

Can I offer some more ridiculous semantics.

Some on here are arguing that pressing is potentially harmful and destructive (maybe, maybe not).

Those same also want pressing classified as restoration.

Shouldn't it be one or the other? Either restorative or destructive? Or, in an attempt to further a point of view, has it become all of these things?

And if it is actually both, as well as a process only undertaken by evil people filled with greed, then shouldn't we all be alerting the authorities?

I mean anything that heinous must be illegal, right?

[FlyingDonut]

[nearmint]

I can't. So I'll correct myself. Either they've done them or they have access to multiple studies that have been done on this type of paper. Now let's move onto your next big groundbreaking point.

 

No need. The LOC made a recommendation based on studies that someone performed. If you want to hang your hat on something that nebulous, have at it, but no one is going to take you seriously.

Yes...they made a recommendation based on the facts of what they know will happen to the paper. You just don't want to accpet it.

 

On the contrary. I've admitted that it's possible that damage might occur at an extremely benign level, and Dale has as well. And since the LOC didn't quantify the degree of damage, there's no reason to think their recommendation and my opinion are mutually exclusive.

[Domo Arigato]

You have claimed over & over again that "numerous" pro-pressers have repeatedly stated in this thread that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books, so why is it so hard for you to come up with just one example of anyone saying this?

Don't like the first one. Ok. As conditionfreak already mentioned in one of his posts above...here's another quote Dale made regarding pressing earlier in this thread.

 

"Well, you can tell by the look of the book that no damage is being done on a current level. In fact, damage is being removed. My evidence is that I can turn a 9.2 book into a 9.8 book. That is damage removed, not created."

 

Sure seems like he's saying do damage is occuring during the pressing process.

[conditionfreak]

But I'll tell you what...I'll give you the first name (Dale) of one individual who is "pro-pressing" and has stated that it does no damage. There are others...but that's all you get for free. Maybe now you can put the TV remote down, crawl off the couch, and actually do something for yourself.

 

Dale has not stated in this thread that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books.

Nor has anyone else.

 

Why do you feel the need to lie about something that's so easy to check?

Yes he has. Why do you feel the need to lie about me in an attempt to discredit me?

 

Then give us the quote where Dale says that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books, please - because I read through the entire thread, and there isn't one. Which means that, yes, you are in fact lying here.

 

I don't really think you need my help to discredit yourself, though - you seem to be doing a bang-up job of that yourself (thumbs u

 

How would you interpret this statement?

 

"Well, you can tell by the look of the book that no damage is being done on a current level. In fact, damage is being removed. My evidence is that I can turn a 9.2 book into a 9.8 book. That is damage removed, not created."

 

This is a quote from Dale (whom I like and have sooo much in common with, be it politics, religion, etc.)

 

Domo is not lying. He may have a different interpretation than you or others, but no, he is not lying. His points have been spot on as far as I can tell. They are contrary to how many here see this subject, but he is not a liar.

 

I don't know him nor you, and don't care much about pressing. But I do care about the truth.

 

You're not being fair. What was the last sentence of that post from Dale?

 

"Personally, if the only change is that the book will last 400 years as opposed to 420 years, I could care less."

 

I believe the important word in this sentence is "if", when taken in context of the previous statement/s.

 

By the way. This last quote from Dale has been my stance from the beginning.

[nearmint]

You have claimed over & over again that "numerous" pro-pressers have repeatedly stated in this thread that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books, so why is it so hard for you to come up with just one example of anyone saying this?

Don't like the first on. Ok. As conditionfreak already mentioned in one of his posts above...here's another quote Dale made regarding pressing earlier in this thread.

 

"Well, you can tell by the look of the book that no damage is being done on a current level. In fact, damage is being removed. My evidence is that I can turn a 9.2 book into a 9.8 book. That is damage removed, not created."

 

Sure seems like he's saying do damage is occuring during the pressing process.

 

And in the very same post he says this...

 

Personally, if the only change is that the book will last 400 years as opposed to 420 years, I could care less.

 

...which obviously allows for the possibility that minute damage might occur.

[MCMiles]

Can someone offer some details that actually apply to comic books from various ages and the methods, (temperatures, amount of moisture, time, etc.) from these test performed by or for the LOC? Some factual details that can be unquestionably applied to what pressers are doing to actual comis books?

 

I'd like to see them.

[Domo Arigato]

I can't. So I'll correct myself. Either they've done them or they have access to multiple studies that have been done on this type of paper. Now let's move onto your next big groundbreaking point.

 

No need. The LOC made a recommendation based on studies that someone performed. If you want to hang your hat on something that nebulous, have at it, but no one is going to take you seriously.

Yes...they made a recommendation based on the facts of what they know will happen to the paper. You just don't want to accpet it.

 

On the contrary. I've admitted that it's possible that damage might occur at an extremely benign level, and Dale has as well. And since the LOC didn't quantify the degree of damage, there's no reason to think their recommendation and my opinion are mutually exclusive.

Dale finally admitted it. And they made a recommendation based on facts. There's nothing nebulous about it.

[nearmint]

But I'll tell you what...I'll give you the first name (Dale) of one individual who is "pro-pressing" and has stated that it does no damage. There are others...but that's all you get for free. Maybe now you can put the TV remote down, crawl off the couch, and actually do something for yourself.

 

Dale has not stated in this thread that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books.

Nor has anyone else.

 

Why do you feel the need to lie about something that's so easy to check?

Yes he has. Why do you feel the need to lie about me in an attempt to discredit me?

 

Then give us the quote where Dale says that pressing does absolutely no harm to comic books, please - because I read through the entire thread, and there isn't one. Which means that, yes, you are in fact lying here.

 

I don't really think you need my help to discredit yourself, though - you seem to be doing a bang-up job of that yourself (thumbs u

 

How would you interpret this statement?

 

"Well, you can tell by the look of the book that no damage is being done on a current level. In fact, damage is being removed. My evidence is that I can turn a 9.2 book into a 9.8 book. That is damage removed, not created."

 

This is a quote from Dale (whom I like and have sooo much in common with, be it politics, religion, etc.)

 

Domo is not lying. He may have a different interpretation than you or others, but no, he is not lying. His points have been spot on as far as I can tell. They are contrary to how many here see this subject, but he is not a liar.

 

I don't know him nor you, and don't care much about pressing. But I do care about the truth.

 

You're not being fair. What was the last sentence of that post from Dale?

 

"Personally, if the only change is that the book will last 400 years as opposed to 420 years, I could care less."

 

I believe the important word in this sentence is "if", when taken in context of the previous statement/s.

 

By the way. This last quote from Dale has been my stance from the beginning.

 

I don't know how you can read the last sentence of his post and still claim that Dale doesn't allow for the possibility that damage at a minute level could occur.