Why do Anti-Pressers HATE pressing?

[namisgr]

But didn't most of your books go for extremely strong numbers, possibly even well over previous GPA averages?

 

If I remember correctly, they did. And so you realized a stronger profit because the books were unpressed with little to no risk. Risk of damage, risk of shipping/regrading, risk of the grade not going up.

 

 

No, they most certainly didn't. There are at least over a hundred high grade books I sold that were pressed, upgraded, and sold for more than what I was paid for them. My FF #1 in 6.5? Became a 7.0. My Avengers #4 in 8.5? Became a 9.2. My FF #12 in 9.0? Became a 9.2. My Avengers #2 in 9.2? Became a 9.4. My Hulk #2 in 9.0? Became a 9.2. My ASM #4 in 8.5? Became a 9.0. My JIM #86 in 9.2? Became a 9.4. My JIM #115 in 9.6? Became the first 9.8. My TOS #46 in 9.0? Became a 9.4. My X-Men #3 in 9.0? Became a 9.2. All of these and many, many more sold for considerably more the second time after being pressed and regraded. This happened as well to some of the Bronze Age keys I bought off the rack and sold decades later.

 

Overall my books realized strong prices and many crushed GPA record highs, but the ones that were upgraded typically sold for even more.

[VintageComics]

Fair enough. Like you, I have left lots of money on the table. Sometimes due to upgradeable defects and sometimes just due to CGC seeing the book differently.

 

I think it's worth pointing out that pressing doesn't always increase the grade.

 

CGC was between tight cycles circa 2012-2013 so many books could upgrade without any changes to them. If a book had upgradeable defects, it could result in an upgrade that wasn't related to just pressing alone.

[RockMyAmadeus]

That's the thing I ultimately don't understand. I thought for sure that the market would correct itself. Surely, if it's possible to "make" a 9.6 out of a 9.2, prices on 9.6s should've cooled.

 

 

 

That's really because there weren't all that many 9.2s OR 9.6s to begin with. Being able to turn 5 9.2s into 9.6s didn't really have that dramatic of an effect on the market. That was really my point. Look at the Avengers #7 example. There are only 21 9.2s (some of which undoubtedly were 8.5s or 9.0s at some point), 18 9.4s....and 4 9.6s.

 

Zero 9.8s for Brulato, by the way.

 

Which, if any, of those 4 9.6s were pressed into it? Maybe 1, maybe 3, maybe all 4, maybe none. And that's not for lack of desire OR ability. They just aren't out there to be "manufactured."

I disagree about whether scarcity alone explains the relative price points. I have the impression that people on these boards believe that all collectors are just as knowledgeable as board members, and that is certainly not the case. Many collectors either don't know about pressing at all or haven't been educated about its implications, just like many collectors still pay a premium for Captain America Comics 74 because it used to be considered scarce, even though we now know (thanks to the census) that it is a fairly common issue. It takes decades for buyers to become informed about some things.

 

 

 

 

I don't understand how your reply relates to my post, but I can address a few of your points here: you are correct, the general buying public is not aware of pressing. I put "book has been professionally pressed" in my listings, and all I got were endless questions about "what does "pressed" mean?"

 

However...that doesn't change my point that there are many...maybe 20, maybe 50, maybe 200....people out there who are actively looking for, and buying, books that have pressing potential and pressing them, and have been for many years. High grade Silver Age books are rare, absolutely, whether they have potential or not. It's easy to find high grade 1980-up candidates for pressing....piece of cake. But Silver Age and prior (and, for the most part, even Bronze to 1975) is pretty tough.

 

As for Cap #74....there are only 52 copies on the census, which is less than Action #1 and Detective #27. But the $10,000 question is: how many of those are resubmissions that aren't accounted for?

 

[COI]

Why are you wrapping all your posts in spoiler tags?

[delekkerste]

My friend shares my distaste for pressing - you can go back to the first few pages of this thread to find my post from 2009 which explains why (reiterated subsequently in their own words by several others here who share my belief).

 

Last year, this friend sold two raw Golden Age keys. He refused to get them pressed, BUT, he made a contingency deal with the buyer. IF the buyer got them pressed, and the first book came back from CGC at a higher grade, the buyer would have to pay my friend $X extra. Same for the second book, with a second stipulation that, if it came back Blue Label, he would have to pay extra as well, as he knew that this book's cover had been solvent-cleaned and *should* have come back with a Purple Label.

 

Of course, the buyer had both books pressed and both books got higher grades, so the buyer had to pony and pay my friend more (apparently the first book looked a bit Constanza'ed after the fact, though - my friend considered buying it back, but not after he saw how it looked post-pressing). And, CGC missed or didn't care that the cover was cleaned on the second book, so not only did that book get bumped up by 2 grades, it also came back Blue Label. Ignorance is bliss if you're the buyer!

 

Gotta love this hobby, man looking out for his fellow man...can you feel the love?

[VintageComics]

Gotta love this hobby, man looking out for his fellow man...can you feel the love?

 

Gene, it's not just this hobby.

 

Any economic model that has large money working is going to run into it's share of issues. You know this as well as anybody. The larger the dollars, the more incentive for people blurring the lines.

[kav]

Money is energy.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Why are you wrapping all your posts in spoiler tags?

 

 

 

It's essentially a "self-ignore" function, because I'm...and there's no way to say this without sounding snide, but I'm not meaning it to be, for whatever that's worth...a very serious problem on these boards, according to moderation. Those who have a problem with "how I speak" will have to work to read my posts, and I'm hoping they don't consider it worth their effort.

 

Obviously not foolproof by any means, and it's not really fair to me to feel I need to hide what I have to say, but nothing else has worked, clearly.

 

[Sqeggs]

My friend shares my distaste for pressing - you can go back to the first few pages of this thread to find my post from 2009 which explains why (reiterated subsequently in their own words by several others here who share my belief).

 

Last year, this friend sold two raw Golden Age keys. He refused to get them pressed, BUT, he made a contingency deal with the buyer. IF the buyer got them pressed, and the first book came back from CGC at a higher grade, the buyer would have to pay my friend $X extra. Same for the second book, with a second stipulation that, if it came back Blue Label, he would have to pay extra as well, as he knew that this book's cover had been solvent-cleaned and *should* have come back with a Purple Label.

 

Of course, the buyer had both books pressed and both books got higher grades, so the buyer had to pony and pay my friend more (apparently the first book looked a bit Constanza'ed after the fact, though - my friend considered buying it back, but not after he saw how it looked post-pressing). And, CGC missed or didn't care that the cover was cleaned on the second book, so not only did that book get bumped up by 2 grades, it also came back Blue Label. Ignorance is bliss if you're the buyer!

 

Gotta love this hobby, man looking out for his fellow man...can you feel the love?

 

And if the books had come with lower grades would your friend have made up the difference in the other direction? If not, can I hire your friend to negotiate all my deals?

[MustEatBrains]

Why are you wrapping all your posts in spoiler tags?

 

 

 

It's essentially a "self-ignore" function, because I'm...and there's no way to say this without sounding snide, but I'm not meaning it to be, for whatever that's worth...a very serious problem on these boards, according to moderation. Those who have a problem with "how I speak" will have to work to read my posts, and I'm hoping they don't consider it worth their effort.

 

Obviously not foolproof by any means, and it's not really fair to me to feel I need to hide what I have to say, but nothing else has worked, clearly.

 

 

 

I think it's genius! I also think you are WAY over-moderated. Someones got an axe to grind with you fo' sure.

 

 

[ChasingKingKirby]

Why are you wrapping all your posts in spoiler tags?

 

 

 

It's essentially a "self-ignore" function, because I'm...and there's no way to say this without sounding snide, but I'm not meaning it to be, for whatever that's worth...a very serious problem on these boards, according to moderation. Those who have a problem with "how I speak" will have to work to read my posts, and I'm hoping they don't consider it worth their effort.

 

Obviously not foolproof by any means, and it's not really fair to me to feel I need to hide what I have to say, but nothing else has worked, clearly.

 

 

 

I think it's genius! I also think you are WAY over-moderated. Someones got an axe to grind with you fo' sure.

 

 

That does appear to be true...

[Bomber-Bob]

Why are you wrapping all your posts in spoiler tags?

 

 

 

It's essentially a "self-ignore" function, because I'm...and there's no way to say this without sounding snide, but I'm not meaning it to be, for whatever that's worth...a very serious problem on these boards, according to moderation. Those who have a problem with "how I speak" will have to work to read my posts, and I'm hoping they don't consider it worth their effort.

 

Obviously not foolproof by any means, and it's not really fair to me to feel I need to hide what I have to say, but nothing else has worked, clearly.

 

 

 

I think it's genius! I also think you are WAY over-moderated. Someones got an axe to grind with you fo' sure.

 

 

That does appear to be true...

 

Hey RMA, I like reading what you have to say. When you stay focused on the topic, and don't get off on tangent discussions/arguments, you have a lot of valuable input. However, I am getting tired of opening up these spoiler tags. Any chance you can go back to normal posting ?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Why are you wrapping all your posts in spoiler tags?

 

 

 

It's essentially a "self-ignore" function, because I'm...and there's no way to say this without sounding snide, but I'm not meaning it to be, for whatever that's worth...a very serious problem on these boards, according to moderation. Those who have a problem with "how I speak" will have to work to read my posts, and I'm hoping they don't consider it worth their effort.

 

Obviously not foolproof by any means, and it's not really fair to me to feel I need to hide what I have to say, but nothing else has worked, clearly.

 

 

 

I think it's genius! I also think you are WAY over-moderated. Someones got an axe to grind with you fo' sure.

 

 

That does appear to be true...

 

Hey RMA, I like reading what you have to say. When you stay focused on the topic, and don't get off on tangent discussions/arguments, you have a lot of valuable input. However, I am getting tired of opening up these spoiler tags. Any chance you can go back to normal posting ?

 

 

I think I have a lot of valuable input even when I get off on tangent discussions/arguments, but opinions will vary, and I appreciate your support. To answer your question, though, the answer is no, until and if things change. The unfortunate fact is, many people DON'T like reading what I have to say, and have made that concern very well known, whether that concern is valid, not, or somewhere in between.

 

Please see the moderation section for more information, so we don't further derail this thread.

 

[DeadpoolJr.]

Why are you wrapping all your posts in spoiler tags?

 

 

 

It's essentially a "self-ignore" function, because I'm...and there's no way to say this without sounding snide, but I'm not meaning it to be, for whatever that's worth...a very serious problem on these boards, according to moderation. Those who have a problem with "how I speak" will have to work to read my posts, and I'm hoping they don't consider it worth their effort.

 

Obviously not foolproof by any means, and it's not really fair to me to feel I need to hide what I have to say, but nothing else has worked, clearly.

 

 

 

I think it's genius! I also think you are WAY over-moderated. Someones got an axe to grind with you fo' sure.

 

 

That does appear to be true...

 

Hey RMA, I like reading what you have to say. When you stay focused on the topic, and don't get off on tangent discussions/arguments, you have a lot of valuable input. However, I am getting tired of opening up these spoiler tags. Any chance you can go back to normal posting ?

 

 

I think I have a lot of valuable input even when I get off on tangent discussions/arguments, but opinions will vary, and I appreciate your support. To answer your question, though, the answer is no, until and if things change. The unfortunate fact is, many people DON'T like reading what I have to say, and have made that concern very well known, whether that concern is valid, not, or somewhere in between.

 

Please see the moderation section for more information, so we don't further derail this thread.

So your spoiler tags act as trigger warnings for those people?

[batman_fan]

What if a better process was found that took a week to press and didn't cause damage to brittle books-would that be restoration or not? I'm speaking hypothetically. Time seems arbitrary. If you can build a car in 5 minutes does that mean it's not really a car? If time is the factor then you always run across the 'well at what point does it change?' 100 hours? 20? 5? 1?

 

Time is not arbitrary if you are talking about specific pressing techniques, as we are. Time is a major core component that integrates with heat, humidity and pressure.

 

Now if a better process could be found that took a week, it should still be seen in whatever light the current pressing process is seen. But the times involved with that new process would be irrelevant to current pressing.

Ok if time is irrelevant then stacking books for twenty years in a hot humid area is restoration. And that makes no sense. All the Church books are restored under that definition.

 

it is not humid in Denver Colorado nor would it be hot in the basement where they were stored. Lastly the weight on the books is no where near the pressure used during pressing.

[KPR Comics]

What if a better process was found that took a week to press and didn't cause damage to brittle books-would that be restoration or not? I'm speaking hypothetically. Time seems arbitrary. If you can build a car in 5 minutes does that mean it's not really a car? If time is the factor then you always run across the 'well at what point does it change?' 100 hours? 20? 5? 1?

 

Time is not arbitrary if you are talking about specific pressing techniques, as we are. Time is a major core component that integrates with heat, humidity and pressure.

 

Now if a better process could be found that took a week, it should still be seen in whatever light the current pressing process is seen. But the times involved with that new process would be irrelevant to current pressing.

Ok if time is irrelevant then stacking books for twenty years in a hot humid area is restoration. And that makes no sense. All the Church books are restored under that definition.

Time is not arbitrary, Kav. Plus you're ignoring the other part of the equation: mechanical means.

 

[batman_fan]

If an anti-presser is selling a book, do they refuse to have it pressed on principle even if they can get 10K more?

 

 

My sole source of income is selling books.

 

I have never had a book pressed before sale and/or grading.

 

Which is a large reason why your sales threads get so much action on the boards.

[Logan510]

If an anti-presser is selling a book, do they refuse to have it pressed on principle even if they can get 10K more?

 

 

My sole source of income is selling books.

 

I have never had a book pressed before sale and/or grading.

 

Which is a large reason why your sales threads get so much action on the boards.

 

I ain't gonna lie, BOTH sides love Nick's books. One of my favorite books bought off the boards was from one of his sales. Unfortunately that was one of the small handful of books stolen from me last year

[greggy]

If an anti-presser is selling a book, do they refuse to have it pressed on principle even if they can get 10K more?

 

 

My sole source of income is selling books.

 

I have never had a book pressed before sale and/or grading.

 

Which is a large reason why your sales threads get so much action on the boards.

 

I ain't gonna lie, BOTH sides love Nick's books. One of my favorite books bought off the boards was from one of his sales. Unfortunately that was one of the small handful of books stolen from me last year

[ttfitz]

Most posts in this thread are unhappy at either theoretical situations, or the very ideal of an old book being pressed, thereby somehow reducing some indefinable quality it once had... however, that quality is completely undetectable.

 

I recently reread The Man in the High Castle, and there was a passage there that deals with this. One of the characters in the book deals in historical artifacts, and he is talking about the notion that some items have "historicity". From the book (and if you are not aware of the plot, this takes place in an alternate history where the Axis powers won WWII):

 

D[/color]ick]“ ‘Look at these. Look the same, don’t they? Well, listen. One has historicity in it.’ He grinned at her. ‘Pick them up. Go ahead. One’s worth, oh, maybe forty or fifty thousand dollars on the collectors’ market.’

 

The girl gingerly picked up the two lighters and examined them.
’Don’t you feel it?’ he kidded her. ‘The historicity?’
She said, ‘What is ‘historicity’?’
’When a thing has history in it. Listen. One of those two Zippo lighters was in Franklin D. Roosevelt’s pocket when he was assassinated. And one wasn’t. One has historicity, a hell of a lot of it. As much as any object ever had. And one has nothing. Can you feel it?’ He nudged her. ‘You can’t. You can’t tell which is which. There’s no ‘mystical plasmic presence,’ no ‘aura’ around it.’

 

‘Gee,’ the girl said, awed. ‘Is that really true? That he had one of those on him that day?’ ‘Sure. And I know which it is.’ “

 

[...]

 

“ ‘I don’t believe either of those two lighters belonged to Franklin Roosevelt,’ the girl said.

 

Wyndam-Matson giggled. ‘That’s my point! I’d have to prove it to you with some sort of document. A paper of authenticity. And so it’s all a fake, a mass delusion. The paper proves its worth, not the object itself!’

 

‘Show me the paper.’

 

‘Sure.’ Hopping up, he made his way back into the study. From the wall he took the Smithsonian Institution’s framed certificate; the paper and the lighter had cost him a fortune, but they were worth it – because they enabled him to prove that he was right, that the word ‘fake’ meant nothing really, since the word ‘authentic’ meant nothing really. “

 

Not wanting to put words in someone else's mouth, but I would guess that the "completely undetectable" aspect of pressing is EXACTLY what causes some of the angst on the subject.