Why do Anti-Pressers HATE pressing?

[FineCollector]

Didn't you skip right on past the "pressing out wrinkles" part?

 

I don't think so Oak. Page 1118 middle column towards bottom of page, 45th edition.

 

My eyes aren't what they used to be but I don't think that is in their current definition of resto.

 

Maybe I have a misprint copy, that could be worth big bucks!

 

 

They removed it

 

 

Just a coincidence I'm sure......

 

 

 

@Brains. This was Chrisco's point.

 

I know just wanted to explicitly state the current definition. We can debate till the cows come home the reasons why. Advertising $$$ etc... Still think it ultimately boils down to the ability to consistently detect pressing has been performed. If the answer ever becomes yes I'd personally be cool with with that notation. Science aside, Logistically i don't it will never happen since the market is already flooded with pressed books.

 

 

Agree there.

 

Read Susan's column in the OSGG 2nd Edition with regards to cleaning.

 

From page 94:

6. CHEMICAL OR SOLVENT CLEANING

When correctly performed, impossible to detect. When incorrectly performed, covers will retain the transfer stain and/or a possible residual chemical odor.

 

That does not make sense to me. If correctly performed makes it impossible to detect, how does anybody know about it or know the possibility that it might have been done?

 

Because in the old days, the only name we associated with restoration (any modification or improvement to the book) was Susan Ciccone. If she did work for you, there was a report that would come back with the book.

[Mr.Mcknowitall]

Didn't you skip right on past the "pressing out wrinkles" part?

 

I don't think so Oak. Page 1118 middle column towards bottom of page, 45th edition.

 

My eyes aren't what they used to be but I don't think that is in their current definition of resto.

 

Maybe I have a misprint copy, that could be worth big bucks!

 

 

They removed it

 

 

Just a coincidence I'm sure......

 

 

 

 

@Brains. This was Chrisco's point.

 

I know just wanted to explicitly state the current definition. We can debate till the cows come home the reasons why. Advertising $$$ etc... Still think it ultimately boils down to the ability to consistently detect pressing has been performed. If the answer ever becomes yes I'd personally be cool with with that notation. Science aside, Logistically i don't it will never happen since the market is already flooded with pressed books.

 

 

Agree there.

 

Read Susan's column in the OSGG 2nd Edition with regards to cleaning.

 

From page 94:

6. CHEMICAL OR SOLVENT CLEANING

When correctly performed, impossible to detect. When incorrectly performed, covers will retain the transfer stain and/or a possible residual chemical odor.

 

That does not make sense to me. If correctly performed makes it impossible to detect, how does anybody know about it or know the possibility that it might have been done?

 

Because in the old days, the only name we associated with restoration (any modification or improvement to the book) was Susan Ciccone. If she did work for you, there was a report that would come back with the book.

 

I see. That makes sense. Thank you.

[SquareChaos]

Can the mods please remove all the bickering so we can continue with the discussion?

 

 

staple impactions made larger - larger is relative and only before and after pics can prove 'larger' but I will remind you that some FF's in the mid to late #30's (like #38 I believe) are very prone to impacted staples as I have seen several copies. So if mid 1960's Marvels are prone to impacted staples, how do you know which are from pressing and which aren't?

 

Ask Matt Nelson, or his old partner, Steve Ritter. They had the term 'maverick staples' for comics with small staple impactions at high risk of becoming much larger after pressing. And many of them do.

 

Before:

 

 

After: The comic kept its 9.6 grade despite the obvious pressing-induced defect.

 

 

 

 

I never knew what a Maverick staple was. *runs to the Overstreet glossary to find out if it was in there, and I just missed it*

 

 

But,but. ..... I thought pressing was undetectable? I guess only to those that have a vested interest.

 

I don't mean to single anyone out here, so please forgive me for using this post as an example of something I've found disappointingly disingenuous.

 

Relatively often throughout this thread someone has posted images of a book obviously damaged, presumably by pressing, and not long after someone else replies with a statement that seems to suggest anyone that states that you can't detect pressing must have some ulterior motive for saying so, or at the very least, doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

Certainly very experienced and knowledgeable members of this community may be able to detect pressed books more readily than I can, but I wouldn't have any confidence in their ability to pick them out even half of the time... unless the books were so obviously damaged by the process that anyone could do so, or unless convenient before and after scans were available for them to work backwards from.

 

I take a "this is the reality of the situation" approach to this - it isn't a practice I would ever invent if it weren't already a power within the hobby - but I have to admit this sort of mini-thread inside of the over all thread doesn't really add anything to the overall conversation, it just forces a crowbar between both sides and widens the gap...

 

Or do people really believe that they can detect pressing with a high degree of accuracy? :shrug:

[oakman29]

I do believe I can detect restoration( pressing) with a degree of accuracy.

[Lucky Baru]

 

Because in the old days, the only name we associated with restoration (any modification or improvement to the book) was Susan Ciccone. If she did work for you, there was a report that would come back with the book.

 

The work she did on the TOS #39 that she has on her website is amazing.

[namisgr]

The point of posting the example of the FF36 is not whether pressing can be detected with certainty by looking for impacted staples, which it can't, but rather

- that maverick staples often become badly impacted after pressing, and

- that CGC ignores this pressing-induced damage even up to the 9.6 grade, just like they ignore the cover staining from a runny ink arrival date.

[kav]

I do believe I can detect restoration( pressing) with a degree of accuracy.

Most of your Caps are pressed.

[seanfingh]

The point is not whether pressing can be detected with certainty by looking for impacted staples, which it can't, but rather

- that maverick staples often become further impacted after pressing, and

- that CGC ignores this pressing-induced damage even up to the 9.6 grade.

 

Not only that, but with so many before and after photos, it becomes clear that trying to ram that last .2 can often really harm these older books.

 

Honestly, can't everyone see the difference between pressing out an NCB in a 1991 Sandman book to bring a 9.6 to a 9.8 and taking White Mountain books, Curators, and other unbelievable examples of superior preservation and doing massive jamjobs on them trying to eke out that last .2???

[oakman29]

I do believe I can detect restoration( pressing) with a degree of accuracy.

Most of your Caps are pressed.

 

Thats why I gave em to Justin.

[kav]

Piling on me and calling me a liar..thief..scam artist..which are all lies threatening to stalk me and harass me in my home etc..

 

is a little different from saying I like Lancashire kitchens better than this dude...

The optics here is that of a person who got bullied, made friends with some other bullies, and started bullying.

Several people were doing the hashtag thing repeatedly before rfoiii. Why are you not jumping on them?

[batman_fan]

The point of posting the example of the FF36 is not whether pressing can be detected with certainty by looking for impacted staples, which it can't, but rather

- that maverick staples often become badly impacted after pressing, and

- that CGC ignores this pressing-induced damage even up to the 9.6 grade, just like they ignore the cover staining from a runny ink arrival date.

 

Exactly That is one of the biggest issues with pressing from my perspective. Books get damaged and yet they end up in holders with big numbers which promotes people continuing to damage the books when they press them. The other big problem I see is just the sheer number of people pressing books, many who don't know what they are doing but since CGC seems to focus on the book flatness and ignores spines so crushed they are on the verge of splitting, I think the practice will continue.

 

I often wonder what the excited investor who buys a blue 9.x book would say if when they show it to you and you say "wow, who did the restoration on that one? They really screwed it up bad!"

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

By the way....concerning "impacted staples", the problem, for the most part, isn't that the staples are being "pushed into" the cover (I wondered the same thing at first, when seeing a result like this, that disturbed me greatly), but rather that the interior pages aren't flush against the cover at the spine completely, and this creates a slight "void" which the cover is flattened into. Since: physics, the cover has to go somewhere, and this creates the "impaction" you see on the FF #36. The staples (and interior pages) stay put, while the cover goes into that void.

 

The solution to this is to be very gentle with the book, and make sure that the interior pages (and thus, the staple with them) are firmly against the spine, so that there is no "void" for the cover to be "flattened into." Then, you will have no impacted staples.

 

By the way....offset staples, on either side, since they are the high points of the cover, can be, and are, forced into the cover at an angle, which pushes the interior pages out, because, again: physics. You have to be very, very, VERY careful when you're dealing with offset staples, or you can easily open/tear the staple holes.

 

 

Now come on, what other presser is willing to talk about this stuff openly...?

 

 

But, since I'm just as concerned with not damaging these high grade books, too, I don't have a problem with it. Since I have become convinced over the last several years that pressing, like any other artform/science, is not something that anyone can just "learn", no matter how much they practice, but is instead a matter of talent and temperament, that the "secret methods" learned over the years are functionally useless to the vast majority of people.

 

It's like Michael Jordan teaching the "secrets" behind his layups. If you don't have the talent and temperament, you'll never be able to do it right, no matter how much you want to, or how much you try.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

By the way....concerning "impacted staples", the problem, for the most part, isn't that the staples are being "pushed into" the cover (I wondered the same thing at first, when seeing a result like this, that disturbed me greatly), but rather that the interior pages aren't flush against the cover at the spine completely, and this creates a slight "void" which the cover is flattened into. Since: physics, the cover has to go somewhere, and this creates the "impaction" you see on the FF #36. The staples (and interior pages) stay put, while the cover goes into that void.

 

The solution to this is to be very gentle with the book, and make sure that the interior pages (and thus, the staple with them) are firmly against the spine, so that there is no "void" for the cover to be "flattened into." Then, you will have no impacted staples.

 

By the way....offset staples, on either side, since they are the high points of the cover, can be, and are, forced into the cover at an angle, which pushes the interior pages out, because, again: physics. You have to be very, very, VERY careful when you're dealing with offset staples, or you can easily open/tear the staple holes.

 

 

Now come on, what other presser is willing to talk about this stuff openly...?

 

 

But, since I'm just as concerned with not damaging these high grade books, too, I don't have a problem with it. Since I have become convinced over the last several years that pressing, like any other artform/science, is not something that anyone can just "learn", no matter how much they practice, but is instead a matter of talent and temperament, that the "secret methods" learned over the years are functionally useless to the vast majority of people.

 

It's like Michael Jordan teaching the "secrets" behind his layups. If you don't have the talent and temperament, you'll never be able to do it right, no matter how much you want to, or how much you try.

 

 

 

AND....to those small few that the information IS useful, they would eventually figure it out anyways...and why not give them a leg up, to avoid damaging more books in the process? If beautiful books can be spared damage, that's really the goal for me.

 

[Tomega]

In general.

 

[SquareChaos]

The point of posting the example of the FF36 is not whether pressing can be detected with certainty by looking for impacted staples, which it can't, but rather

- that maverick staples often become badly impacted after pressing, and

- that CGC ignores this pressing-induced damage even up to the 9.6 grade, just like they ignore the cover staining from a runny ink arrival date.

 

As I said in my reply, it is the follow up comment that isn't helpful. I appreciated your post, seeing is believing. I'm a fan of all of the visual examples that have popped up in the thread.

[COI]

Well, this thread's done. Glad I invested in the discussion.

 

You never know, people thought it was done years ago. Anyway, what did you expect from a pressing thread?

 

Will Team Derail make rfoiii an honourary member?

 

I didn't expect a complete mental breakdown expressed in hashtags.

 

That isn't funny or true. How are my posts any worse than yours?

 

You have posted off-topic memes, gifs, videos and various other nonsense on a regular basis - not just here, but everywhere - sometimes in very quick succession. But I post some #hashtags and I've gone too far and had "a complete mental breakdown."

 

Maybe you are funnier than I am, but at least I am not a hypocrite. Give me a break.

 

I don't know about better or worse, but the difference is I'm doing it to make certain people who share my sense of humor giggle, and they usually do. You appear to be doing it because you're trying to make a point and have an axe to grind.

 

There's a nuance to social interactions. If you feel you're getting a difference response than others for similar behaviors, or that those others are getting a pass somehow, it's usually because there's some kind of social cue you're missing.

[kav]

Well, this thread's done. Glad I invested in the discussion.

 

You never know, people thought it was done years ago. Anyway, what did you expect from a pressing thread?

 

Will Team Derail make rfoiii an honourary member?

 

I didn't expect a complete mental breakdown expressed in hashtags.

 

That isn't funny or true. How are my posts any worse than yours?

 

You have posted off-topic memes, gifs, videos and various other nonsense on a regular basis - not just here, but everywhere - sometimes in very quick succession. But I post some #hashtags and I've gone too far and had "a complete mental breakdown."

 

Maybe you are funnier than I am, but at least I am not a hypocrite. Give me a break.

 

I don't know about better or worse, but the difference is I'm doing it to make certain people who share my sense of humor giggle, and they usually do. You appear to be doing it because you're trying to make a point and have an axe to grind.

 

There's a nuance to social interactions. If you feel you're getting a difference response than others for similar behaviors, or that those others are getting a pass somehow, it's usually because there's some kind of social cue you're missing.

Or, there's a group of friends, and if one goes after you and you respond in kind, they all go after you. You cannot deny this element exists here. The guy who popped up and said rfoii's joke was not funny, as if he is the lord of all allowable jokes, is friends with all the pile-onners.

[seanfingh]

 

There are also a lot of people who thought that the posts were axe-grinding and foolish, but chose not to comment.

[kav]

There are also a lot of people who thought that the posts were axe-grinding and foolish, but chose not to comment.

If someone continuously pops up and snipes at someone, repeatedly and over time, it's ok to have an axe to grind with them. they started grinding first.

[seanfingh]

There are also a lot of people who thought that the posts were axe-grinding and foolish, but chose not to comment.

If someone continuously pops up and snipes at someone, repeatedly and over time, it's ok to have an axe to grind with them.

 

I am referring to the hashtag posts. rfoii appeared to me, to be pursuing a very aggressive and very annoying pro-pressing agenda. It seemed infantile to me. Perhaps I misread.

 

You taking up rfoii's escutcheon appears, to me, to be more about your ongoing dance macabre with MetalPSI.