SNE to flood eBay with 13,000 slabs?

[CKB]

We will have to agree to disagree as nether of us knows for sure....I am of the opinion that there are easily more than 250 copies out there that can be graded in 9.8.

 

In fact...it wouldn't surprise me in the least if sealed cases of the book showed up at some point.

 

So far, this has not been the case. They mythical sealed case of H1 that Jim Shooter uses as a coffee table still has greater utility in his living room.

 

In the instances where (relatively small) hoards have been found, we have seen a very low 9.8 pass rate. Although I understand RMA's hoard fared much better then most. My hoard got me a few 9.6s and a bunch of NM rejects...

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

We will have to agree to disagree as nether of us knows for sure....I am of the opinion that there are easily more than 250 copies out there that can be graded in 9.8.

 

In fact...it wouldn't surprise me in the least if sealed cases of the book showed up at some point.

 

Again...your expertise is Silver and surrounding.

 

My expertise is Modern, ESPECIALLY Valiant.

 

There are not "easily" 250 copies in potential 9.8 out there, because the book had problems, severe ones, before it ever even hit the cases. Because of the flimsy cover stock, most copies have either spine splits, or horzontal "binding tears" up to an inch long.

 

Granted, CGC has figured out what was "production" and what was "wear" on these books, which is why 30 have shown up in the last year...but there's simply no way there are "easily" 250 copies in 9.8. It's just not within the realm of probability.

 

As far as "unopened cases" go, one need only do the math. At 200 copies per case (let's assume), the print run was not more than 50,000, tops. That's 250 cases total.

 

To have an unopened case of a book that was $125 by the summer of 1993 would be to beat ridiculous odds.

 

But even if there IS a case out there...the spines will still be split or torn, just like on most other copies.

[RockMyAmadeus]

We will have to agree to disagree as nether of us knows for sure....I am of the opinion that there are easily more than 250 copies out there that can be graded in 9.8.

 

In fact...it wouldn't surprise me in the least if sealed cases of the book showed up at some point.

 

So far, this has not been the case. They mythical sealed case of H1 that Jim Shooter uses as a coffee table still has greater utility in his living room.

 

In the instances where (relatively small) hoards have been found, we have seen a very low 9.8 pass rate. Although I understand RMA's hoard fared much better then most. My hoard got me a few 9.6s and a bunch of NM rejects...

 

 

3 of 4...my 4 best...of a hoard of about 50. And these were books that I bought every single copy that passed through my hands for 12-13 years before I subbed.

 

I doubt I could pull out more than 1-2 more 9.8s out of my hoard, even if they're pressed. The 4th was a 9.4 because of the infamous spine split, which I have seen worse on other 9.8s...they just happened to catch mine on that day. Even the pre-graders missed it, but the grader caught it.

 

Shucks.

[ShowcaseNE]

We will have to agree to disagree as nether of us knows for sure....I am of the opinion that there are easily more than 250 copies out there that can be graded in 9.8.

 

In fact...it wouldn't surprise me in the least if sealed cases of the book showed up at some point.

 

Again...your expertise is Silver and surrounding.

 

My expertise is Modern, ESPECIALLY Valiant.

 

There are not "easily" 250 copies in potential 9.8 out there, because the book had problems, severe ones, before it ever even hit the cases. Because of the flimsy cover stock, most copies have either spine splits, or horzontal "binding tears" up to an inch long.

 

Granted, CGC has figured out what was "production" and what was "wear" on these books, which is why 30 have shown up in the last year...but there's simply no way there are "easily" 250 copies in 9.8. It's just not within the realm of probability.

 

As far as "unopened cases" go, one need only do the math. At 200 copies per case (let's assume), the print run was not more than 50,000, tops. That's 250 cases total.

 

To have an unopened case of a book that was $125 by the summer of 1993 would be to beat ridiculous odds.

 

But even if there IS a case out there...the spines will still be split or torn, just like on most other copies.

 

I am definitely not an expert in the modern area...still I have more experience with certification of modern books, and the dynamics of the market than anyone I know....still doesn't make me an expert....but I don't think I'm clueless either.

 

I wouldn't get to hung up on published print runs as a guide to "what is not out there"....and what's gone missing, or is not missing.

 

Many dealers, on multiple occasions have gone insolvent making that mistake in the coin market.

 

If you have a Wolverine 1 in 10.0...better sell it now if you care about the "investment" or "economics" of owning it because as God is my witness, more of them in these grades are coming down the road.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

[Logan510]

 

 

Had Valiant done what Marvel did, Harby #1 would be the FF #1 of its generation.

Can you explain?

 

Sure.

 

Valiant comics did what no other comic company since Marvel in the early 1960's did: they set the comic world on fire with their characters and storylines. Had things been "different" and Valiant succeeded, all pre-Unity books would have been at the forefront of this comics renaissance, and Harby #1 was the pre-eminent pre-Unity book.

 

Jim Shooter said, in the article in Harby #1, that you were holding in your hands the Avengers #1 of this generation. I disagree. It would have been the Fantastic Four #1 of its generation.

 

Sadly, though, things didn't work out, and Valiant ended up on the ash heap of history.

 

I guess your and my idea of setting the world on fire are very different. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Valiant hater, I liked a lot of their stuff pre Shooter getting the boot. But that's a pretty big leap from reality to say they set the world on fire. If anything, Image did that much more so than Valiant...no accounting for taste I suppose.

[ShowcaseNE]

Originally Posted By: ShowcaseNE

 

In my opinion, most of the adjustments were correct and neccessary. I think the dumping is almost over now....prices will stabilize.

 

 

I don't agree with this at all. What factors do you use to make this determination?

 

Take out the discussion about the economy, because economies come and go.

In my opinion, most of the adjustments were correct and neccessary. I think the dumping is almost over now....prices will stabilize.

 

I don't agree with this at all. What factors do you use to make this determination?

 

 

Take out the discussion about the economy, because economies come and go.

 

MY REPLY: (still don't know how to use quotes...someone help me please?)

 

You can't ignore the economics of it because they "are the factors".

 

As the supply (more supply in this case) and demand (soft economy, less demand) curve change to reflect conditions in the market place, price (in this case down) changes too.

 

As more of these books come into the market, perceptions change value. That is why the adjustments are correct and, IMO, neccessary. The maket for books will always be fluid to some extent as supply and demand functions change.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

Had Valiant done what Marvel did, Harby #1 would be the FF #1 of its generation.

Can you explain?

 

Sure.

 

Valiant comics did what no other comic company since Marvel in the early 1960's did: they set the comic world on fire with their characters and storylines. Had things been "different" and Valiant succeeded, all pre-Unity books would have been at the forefront of this comics renaissance, and Harby #1 was the pre-eminent pre-Unity book.

 

Jim Shooter said, in the article in Harby #1, that you were holding in your hands the Avengers #1 of this generation. I disagree. It would have been the Fantastic Four #1 of its generation.

 

Sadly, though, things didn't work out, and Valiant ended up on the ash heap of history.

 

I guess your and my idea of setting the world on fire are very different. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Valiant hater, I liked a lot of their stuff pre Shooter getting the boot. But that's a pretty big leap from reality to say they set the world on fire. If anything, Image did that much more so than Valiant...no accounting for taste I suppose.

 

I will ask you just one question:

 

How many Image books were selling for $125 within two years of their release...?

 

In the summer of 1992, there was NOTHING hotter than Unity, and by the summer of 1993, there was nothing but Valiant, Valiant, Valiant.

 

If it had not been for the Death of Superman, nothing would have toppled Valiant's complete and total reign over the comics world for that entire year.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Originally Posted By: ShowcaseNE

 

In my opinion, most of the adjustments were correct and neccessary. I think the dumping is almost over now....prices will stabilize.

 

 

I don't agree with this at all. What factors do you use to make this determination?

 

Take out the discussion about the economy, because economies come and go.

In my opinion, most of the adjustments were correct and neccessary. I think the dumping is almost over now....prices will stabilize.

 

I don't agree with this at all. What factors do you use to make this determination?

 

 

Take out the discussion about the economy, because economies come and go.

 

MY REPLY: (still don't know how to use quotes...someone help me please?)

 

You can't ignore the economics of it because they "are the factors".

 

As the supply (more supply in this case) and demand (soft economy, less demand) curve change to reflect conditions in the market place, price (in this case down) changes too.

 

As more of these books come into the market, perceptions change value. That is why the adjustments are correct and, IMO, neccessary. The maket for books will always be fluid to some extent as supply and demand functions change.

 

As far as the quote function goes, when you reply to one of my posts, look at how the quote CODE functions.

 

For example, if you wish to quote the following:

 

"The quick red fox jumped over the lazy brown dog"

 

The code would look like this, MINUS the spaces:

 

[ quote=RockMyAmadeus]The quick red fox jumped over the lazy brown dog[ /quote]

 

It takes some practice, but it's not too tough to get the hang of.

 

As far as THE economy goes, I'll just say, this economy will not last forever. They never do.

[Aman619]

have you and Showcase switched identities? I thought all along SNE was arguing that Modern books are a god buy in 9.8 and you were pouring cold water on that stating that NO modern books will be scarce in 9.8.

 

Bit you are now championing Harbinger 1 as an exception? And follow with the point that you have 3 fo 4 9.8s and probably more ? I guess you are an expert on H1 having owned so many, and yeah its print run was kinda small, but there are still 10000 real nice unread copies (my low end guess) and many many more 9.8s out there.

[Aman619]

 

 

Had Valiant done what Marvel did, Harby #1 would be the FF #1 of its generation.

Can you explain?

 

Sure.

 

Valiant comics did what no other comic company since Marvel in the early 1960's did: they set the comic world on fire with their characters and storylines. Had things been "different" and Valiant succeeded, all pre-Unity books would have been at the forefront of this comics renaissance, and Harby #1 was the pre-eminent pre-Unity book.

 

Jim Shooter said, in the article in Harby #1, that you were holding in your hands the Avengers #1 of this generation. I disagree. It would have been the Fantastic Four #1 of its generation.

 

Sadly, though, things didn't work out, and Valiant ended up on the ash heap of history.

 

I guess your and my idea of setting the world on fire are very different. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Valiant hater, I liked a lot of their stuff pre Shooter getting the boot. But that's a pretty big leap from reality to say they set the world on fire. If anything, Image did that much more so than Valiant...no accounting for taste I suppose.

 

 

Image was 90% hype. But Valiant stories were good and different . It really felt like Marvel 2.0 happening again. Too bad it didnt last, too much money and egos.

[Logan510]

 

 

Had Valiant done what Marvel did, Harby #1 would be the FF #1 of its generation.

Can you explain?

 

Sure.

 

Valiant comics did what no other comic company since Marvel in the early 1960's did: they set the comic world on fire with their characters and storylines. Had things been "different" and Valiant succeeded, all pre-Unity books would have been at the forefront of this comics renaissance, and Harby #1 was the pre-eminent pre-Unity book.

 

Jim Shooter said, in the article in Harby #1, that you were holding in your hands the Avengers #1 of this generation. I disagree. It would have been the Fantastic Four #1 of its generation.

 

Sadly, though, things didn't work out, and Valiant ended up on the ash heap of history.

 

I guess your and my idea of setting the world on fire are very different. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Valiant hater, I liked a lot of their stuff pre Shooter getting the boot. But that's a pretty big leap from reality to say they set the world on fire. If anything, Image did that much more so than Valiant...no accounting for taste I suppose.

 

I will ask you just one question:

 

How many Image books were selling for $125 within two years of their release...?

 

In the summer of 1992, there was NOTHING hotter than Unity, and by the summer of 1993, there was nothing but Valiant, Valiant, Valiant.

 

If it had not been for the Death of Superman, nothing would have toppled Valiant's complete and total reign over the comics world for that entire year.

 

Those back issue prices were totally artificial as that was the beginning / height of the manufactured collectible. Why don't we look at the Diamond charts and see who was selling more units per month...it certainly wasn't Valiant.

[Logan510]

 

 

Had Valiant done what Marvel did, Harby #1 would be the FF #1 of its generation.

Can you explain?

 

Sure.

 

Valiant comics did what no other comic company since Marvel in the early 1960's did: they set the comic world on fire with their characters and storylines. Had things been "different" and Valiant succeeded, all pre-Unity books would have been at the forefront of this comics renaissance, and Harby #1 was the pre-eminent pre-Unity book.

 

Jim Shooter said, in the article in Harby #1, that you were holding in your hands the Avengers #1 of this generation. I disagree. It would have been the Fantastic Four #1 of its generation.

 

Sadly, though, things didn't work out, and Valiant ended up on the ash heap of history.

 

I guess your and my idea of setting the world on fire are very different. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Valiant hater, I liked a lot of their stuff pre Shooter getting the boot. But that's a pretty big leap from reality to say they set the world on fire. If anything, Image did that much more so than Valiant...no accounting for taste I suppose.

 

 

Image was 90% hype. But Valiant stories were good and different . It really felt like Marvel 2.0 happening again. Too bad it didnt last, too much money and egos.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the early Valiant stuff more than the early Image stuff by a mile. I'm also a realist..Shooter, Layton, Perlin etc etc were not going to sell as many books as McFarlane, Lee, Lifeld etc and they didn't.

[RockMyAmadeus]

have you and Showcase switched identities? I thought all along SNE was arguing that Modern books are a god buy in 9.8 and you were pouring cold water on that stating that NO modern books will be scarce in 9.8.

 

Bit you are now championing Harbinger 1 as an exception? And follow with the point that you have 3 fo 4 9.8s and probably more ? I guess you are an expert on H1 having owned so many, and yeah its print run was kinda small, but there are still 10000 real nice unread copies (my low end guess) and many many more 9.8s out there.

 

I've been arguing both sides of the fence this entire thread. Did you just NOW notice..?

 

But there are, indeed, exceptions to the modern rule of 9.8s. I never said NO modern books, not by a long shot. There are lots of modern books that are quite rare and valuable in 9.8:

 

Bone

Turtles

Albedo

Certain issues of Valiant (Harby #1, Rai #5, Solar #10, Magnus #7)

Primer

 

It's the modern DC/Marvels which, with few exceptions, are the non-rare ones.

 

I would be flabbergasted to think there are 10,000 "real nice unread copies" of Harby #1 still out there, and I seriously doubt there are "many many" 9.8s. It took 8 YEARS for Harby #1 to get 12-13 copies on the census, and it had been a solid $1,000 book for a couple of years by that point.

 

Harby #1, since March of 2008, has been selling for $40-$150 in "eBay NM"...and yet, there haven't been more than 200-300 copies show up for sale in that time.

 

$40-$150 is a LOT of money for a raw book from the early 90's...where are the rest?

 

Remember, the longer a book stays "valuable", the more widely it will be distributed (and I don't mean initial distribution, I mean after market) as the temptation to sell becomes too great for the original owners of multiple copies, be they store owners, distributors, or investors.

 

How many hoards of 100 or more copies of Ultimate Spiderman #1 do you think are out there? I'd say: none. Who in their right mind would hold on to a book they can get $100 for that they paid $1.50-$3 for?

 

How about hoards of Walking Dead? Oh, sure, some people may have 5-10 copies, but 20, 50, 100? You'd be a fool to hold on to that many when they're selling for $150 each raw.

 

And...as the demand starts to drop, the hurry up to be rid of them while the gettin's good becomes even more pronounced, and they get flung to the ends of the earth.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

Had Valiant done what Marvel did, Harby #1 would be the FF #1 of its generation.

Can you explain?

 

Sure.

 

Valiant comics did what no other comic company since Marvel in the early 1960's did: they set the comic world on fire with their characters and storylines. Had things been "different" and Valiant succeeded, all pre-Unity books would have been at the forefront of this comics renaissance, and Harby #1 was the pre-eminent pre-Unity book.

 

Jim Shooter said, in the article in Harby #1, that you were holding in your hands the Avengers #1 of this generation. I disagree. It would have been the Fantastic Four #1 of its generation.

 

Sadly, though, things didn't work out, and Valiant ended up on the ash heap of history.

 

I guess your and my idea of setting the world on fire are very different. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Valiant hater, I liked a lot of their stuff pre Shooter getting the boot. But that's a pretty big leap from reality to say they set the world on fire. If anything, Image did that much more so than Valiant...no accounting for taste I suppose.

 

I will ask you just one question:

 

How many Image books were selling for $125 within two years of their release...?

 

In the summer of 1992, there was NOTHING hotter than Unity, and by the summer of 1993, there was nothing but Valiant, Valiant, Valiant.

 

If it had not been for the Death of Superman, nothing would have toppled Valiant's complete and total reign over the comics world for that entire year.

 

Those back issue prices were totally artificial as that was the beginning / height of the manufactured collectible. Why don't we look at the Diamond charts and see who was selling more units per month...it certainly wasn't Valiant.

 

That is ABSOLUTELY not true. Those were real, actual prices paid by many, many collectors. They were not "artifical" in any way, and any number of people dealing in Valiants at the time, including myself, will tell you that.

 

When you can turn Valiants into Silver Age Key Marvels, there is NOTHING artificial about that.

 

Pre-Unity Valiants were NOT common. Not a single pre-Unity book topped 100,000 copies, in a time period where Image books and X-Men were printed in the millions.

 

Do you know what the highest selling NON-DC book was for the entire year of 1993?

 

(Hint: it wasn't a Marvel or Image book.)

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

 

Had Valiant done what Marvel did, Harby #1 would be the FF #1 of its generation.

Can you explain?

 

Sure.

 

Valiant comics did what no other comic company since Marvel in the early 1960's did: they set the comic world on fire with their characters and storylines. Had things been "different" and Valiant succeeded, all pre-Unity books would have been at the forefront of this comics renaissance, and Harby #1 was the pre-eminent pre-Unity book.

 

Jim Shooter said, in the article in Harby #1, that you were holding in your hands the Avengers #1 of this generation. I disagree. It would have been the Fantastic Four #1 of its generation.

 

Sadly, though, things didn't work out, and Valiant ended up on the ash heap of history.

 

I guess your and my idea of setting the world on fire are very different. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Valiant hater, I liked a lot of their stuff pre Shooter getting the boot. But that's a pretty big leap from reality to say they set the world on fire. If anything, Image did that much more so than Valiant...no accounting for taste I suppose.

 

 

Image was 90% hype. But Valiant stories were good and different . It really felt like Marvel 2.0 happening again. Too bad it didnt last, too much money and egos.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the early Valiant stuff more than the early Image stuff by a mile. I'm also a realist..Shooter, Layton, Perlin etc etc were not going to sell as many books as McFarlane, Lee, Lifeld etc and they didn't.

 

Oh yes they were, and they did.

 

For ALL of 1993, Valiant beat out Image in dollars AND units.

 

Do you know how many different comic books Image published in 1993?

 

About 40, total.

 

Do you know how many books Valiant published in 1993?

 

145

 

 

[Logan510]

 

 

Had Valiant done what Marvel did, Harby #1 would be the FF #1 of its generation.

Can you explain?

 

Sure.

 

Valiant comics did what no other comic company since Marvel in the early 1960's did: they set the comic world on fire with their characters and storylines. Had things been "different" and Valiant succeeded, all pre-Unity books would have been at the forefront of this comics renaissance, and Harby #1 was the pre-eminent pre-Unity book.

 

Jim Shooter said, in the article in Harby #1, that you were holding in your hands the Avengers #1 of this generation. I disagree. It would have been the Fantastic Four #1 of its generation.

 

Sadly, though, things didn't work out, and Valiant ended up on the ash heap of history.

 

I guess your and my idea of setting the world on fire are very different. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Valiant hater, I liked a lot of their stuff pre Shooter getting the boot. But that's a pretty big leap from reality to say they set the world on fire. If anything, Image did that much more so than Valiant...no accounting for taste I suppose.

 

I will ask you just one question:

 

How many Image books were selling for $125 within two years of their release...?

 

In the summer of 1992, there was NOTHING hotter than Unity, and by the summer of 1993, there was nothing but Valiant, Valiant, Valiant.

 

If it had not been for the Death of Superman, nothing would have toppled Valiant's complete and total reign over the comics world for that entire year.

 

Those back issue prices were totally artificial as that was the beginning / height of the manufactured collectible. Why don't we look at the Diamond charts and see who was selling more units per month...it certainly wasn't Valiant.

 

That is ABSOLUTELY not true. Those were real, actual prices paid by many, many collectors. They were not "artifical" in any way, and any number of people dealing in Valiants at the time, including myself, will tell you that.

 

When you can turn Valiants into Silver Age Key Marvels, there is NOTHING artificial about that.

 

Pre-Unity Valiants were NOT common. Not a single pre-Unity book topped 100,000 copies, in a time period where Image books and X-Men were printed in the millions.

 

Do you know what the highest selling NON-DC book was for the entire year of 1993?

 

(Hint: it wasn't a Marvel or Image book.)

 

 

Those extreme prices were totally artifical and completely fueled by the speculators. The early Valiant's did have VERY low print runs, coupled with gimmicks like coupons it's not hard to see why they jumped up the way they did...and also why they crashed just a few short years later. As far as return on initial investment the Valiant's performed much better than Image books, I'm not arguing this. But that is not what I call setting the world on fire with the potential to be the next Marvel.

Best selling Valiant in 1993 without looking back at the numbers I would guess either Bloodshot #1 or Turok #1...both with gimmick covers that speculators ate up thinking they would be worth something someday.

[Aman619]

have you and Showcase switched identities? I thought all along SNE was arguing that Modern books are a god buy in 9.8 and you were pouring cold water on that stating that NO modern books will be scarce in 9.8.

 

Bit you are now championing Harbinger 1 as an exception? And follow with the point that you have 3 fo 4 9.8s and probably more ? I guess you are an expert on H1 having owned so many, and yeah its print run was kinda small, but there are still 10000 real nice unread copies (my low end guess) and many many more 9.8s out there.

 

I've been arguing both sides of the fence this entire thread. Did you just NOW notice..?

 

But there are, indeed, exceptions to the modern rule of 9.8s. I never said NO modern books, not by a long shot. There are lots of modern books that are quite rare and valuable in 9.8:

 

Bone

Turtles

Albedo

Certain issues of Valiant (Harby #1, Rai #5, Solar #10, Magnus #7)

Primer

 

It's the modern DC/Marvels which, with few exceptions, are the non-rare ones.

 

I would be flabbergasted to think there are 10,000 "real nice unread copies" of Harby #1 still out there, and I seriously doubt there are "many many" 9.8s. It took 8 YEARS for Harby #1 to get 12-13 copies on the census, and it had been a solid $1,000 book for a couple of years by that point.

 

Harby #1, since March of 2008, has been selling for $40-$150 in "eBay NM"...and yet, there haven't been more than 200-300 copies show up for sale in that time.

 

$40-$150 is a LOT of money for a raw book from the early 90's...where are the rest?

 

Remember, the longer a book stays "valuable", the more widely it will be distributed (and I don't mean initial distribution, I mean after market) as the temptation to sell becomes too great for the original owners of multiple copies, be they store owners, distributors, or investors.

 

How many hoards of 100 or more copies of Ultimate Spiderman #1 do you think are out there? I'd say: none. Who in their right mind would hold on to a book they can get $100 for that they paid $1.50-$3 for?

 

How about hoards of Walking Dead? Oh, sure, some people may have 5-10 copies, but 20, 50, 100? You'd be a fool to hold on to that many when they're selling for $150 each raw.

 

And...as the demand starts to drop, the hurry up to be rid of them while the gettin's good becomes even more pronounced, and they get flung to the ends of the earth.

 

good points. and I agree that there will be, by definition, a few books that wont be plentiful in HG. It will be interesting to find out which they are. Id agree that pre-unity Valiant are scarcer than what most peopel think when they talk about Valiant comics. But here too, nearly every singe copy sold went into a bag or mylar. That was the mindset.

 

and the answer to your question about who would not be selling a 90s book worth 50 or 100 bucks? Collectors. Those of us who arent selling. or just uninterested in the process of converting even 90s comics to cash. You can unload them raw pretty easily for a few bucks, but slabbing them> posting them? etc? Not all of us are dealers inside.

 

anyway, when it comes to Harbinger #1, I think plenty of us would rather just not discuss it! Having not sold for $125 each when we could !! damm.

[Logan510]

 

 

Had Valiant done what Marvel did, Harby #1 would be the FF #1 of its generation.

Can you explain?

 

Sure.

 

Valiant comics did what no other comic company since Marvel in the early 1960's did: they set the comic world on fire with their characters and storylines. Had things been "different" and Valiant succeeded, all pre-Unity books would have been at the forefront of this comics renaissance, and Harby #1 was the pre-eminent pre-Unity book.

 

Jim Shooter said, in the article in Harby #1, that you were holding in your hands the Avengers #1 of this generation. I disagree. It would have been the Fantastic Four #1 of its generation.

 

Sadly, though, things didn't work out, and Valiant ended up on the ash heap of history.

 

I guess your and my idea of setting the world on fire are very different. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Valiant hater, I liked a lot of their stuff pre Shooter getting the boot. But that's a pretty big leap from reality to say they set the world on fire. If anything, Image did that much more so than Valiant...no accounting for taste I suppose.

 

 

Image was 90% hype. But Valiant stories were good and different . It really felt like Marvel 2.0 happening again. Too bad it didnt last, too much money and egos.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the early Valiant stuff more than the early Image stuff by a mile. I'm also a realist..Shooter, Layton, Perlin etc etc were not going to sell as many books as McFarlane, Lee, Lifeld etc and they didn't.

 

Oh yes they were, and they did.

 

For ALL of 1993, Valiant beat out Image in dollars AND units.

 

Do you know how many different comic books Image published in 1993?

 

About 40, total.

 

Do you know how many books Valiant published in 1993?

 

145

 

 

Show me the Diamond numbers from 1993 if you have them. All things being equal, you're really going to say that the backbone creators at Valiant could compete with the guys at Image ( not talking about quality here )?

[Aman619]

my recollection, and experience, was that Valiants were a fun to read, refreshing and kinda original take on the same old comics we were getting. I was pretty jaded already, but I enjoyed the heck out of them

 

at first. But the excitement fueled the speculative bubble. And it didnt hurt that it came after the Image bubble cause it was the next big thing..

 

my point is that the bubble was based on the substance of the first years Valiant issues. The stories and characters and NOT the hyped up creators like with Image.

 

But it fell apart as they bought into their own success... started chasing the hypw with more #1s and gimmicks and Wizards help. And then the Massarsky/Shooter feud. And it was over.