SNE to flood eBay with 13,000 slabs?

[Tatterdamillion]

To get back on topic, I would definitely consider Slimey a hanchman or even lackey of Oscar. Period.

[Tatterdamillion]

I bought several books from SNE raw all graded between 8.5 and mebee 9.2. One of the books ( I think Atom #2) had an 8 inch dog ear, I called it a mastiff ear. I returned them all because I was pissed that it was masivelly overgraded, They gave me my money back to be fair.

[Logan510]

Can we go back to having real discussions about Valiant books, please. This is stupid. Oh, and btw:

 

I would love to, but's it's hard to debate with Valiant's #1 fanboy Speaking of which...I was checking out a price guide from 1998 whilst on the can ( yes, I eat, sleep and even poop comics ) and shocking...Harbinger #1 which had been selling for upwards of $125 just 5-6 years earlier was going for a scant $5 with[/i the coupon. Talk about not holding your value. I think what I said earlier about artificialy high prices whether realized or not holds true. Valiant was lucky to have been in the right place at the right time and be helped BIG time by Wizard and the speculators. I did enjoy those early books though. They could have been the next Dark Horse or IDW

[RockMyAmadeus]

Can we go back to having real discussions about Valiant books, please. This is stupid. Oh, and btw:

 

I would love to, but's it's hard to debate with Valiant's #1 fanboy

 

I'm #1! I'm #1!

 

Take THAT, the rest of you!

 

 

(And it's not hard to debate anyone...when you do it properly.) (thumbs u

 

Speaking of which...I was checking out a price guide from 1998 whilst on the can ( yes, I eat, sleep and even poop comics ) and shocking...Harbinger #1 which had been selling for upwards of $125 just 5-6 years earlier was going for a scant $5 with[/i the coupon. Talk about not holding your value. I think what I said earlier about artificialy high prices whether realized or not holds true.

 

Once again...prices are not ARTIFICIAL if people are ACTUALLY PAYING THEM.

 

There is a DIFFERENCE between "artificial" and "sustainable."

 

Mile High's "everyday prices" = artificial. Nobody pays them. Overstreet "NM-" prices for 95% of the books in it = "artificial." Are you with me yet?

 

And quoting Harby #1 prices from 1998 is news to no one. I, for one, am glad, because if they hadn't crashed, I would have had a total of 2 copies to my name.

 

As far as "going for"...it was a lucky day indeed when anyone could find Harby #1s in NM WITH coupon for $5. That's almost NEVER been true.

 

Valiant was lucky to have been in the right place at the right time and be helped BIG time by Wizard and the speculators. I did enjoy those early books though. They could have been the next Dark Horse or IDW

 

You...honestly...have no real concept of how Valiant came to be what it was, do you?

 

Pre-Unity Valiant was not "helped" by Wizard and the speculators, nor were they "lucky" to have been in the right place at the right time. The strength of Valiant's popularity has always been pre-Unity. It was because pre-Unity Valiant was so GOOD that it became popular, not because they were "lucky", or were "pimped", or because of anything that came after Unity.

 

Valiant's rise mirrored that of the "New" X-Men: ignored at first, but then, when everyone discovered just how good this stuff was, they ran back and HAD to have the issues that came before. This is why X-Men #94 was a 60 cent comic in the 1978 OPG (almost three years after it came out), and a $60 one in the 1979 OPG. Same exact thing. Harby #1 was a $2 book in the 1992 OPG....and $100 in the 1993.

 

The difference is, X-Men maintained it's quality, and Valiant did not, and, of course, Valiant's rise happened much faster.

 

If pre-Unity wasn't good, the company would have been just like First, or Now, or Comico, or Continuity...just another independent putting out indepedent comics.

 

They could have been the next Marvel. And they blew it.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Can we go back to having real discussions about Valiant books, please. This is stupid. Oh, and btw:

 

 

Fit the screen, newb!

 

(thumbs u

[FlyingDonut]

 

Fit the screen, newb!

 

(thumbs u

 

Fits on mine....get a bigger monitor.

[Logan510]

Can we go back to having real discussions about Valiant books, please. This is stupid. Oh, and btw:

 

I would love to, but's it's hard to debate with Valiant's #1 fanboy

 

I'm #1! I'm #1!

 

Take THAT, the rest of you!

 

 

(And it's not hard to debate anyone...when you do it properly.) (thumbs u

 

Speaking of which...I was checking out a price guide from 1998 whilst on the can ( yes, I eat, sleep and even poop comics ) and shocking...Harbinger #1 which had been selling for upwards of $125 just 5-6 years earlier was going for a scant $5 with[/i the coupon. Talk about not holding your value. I think what I said earlier about artificialy high prices whether realized or not holds true.

 

Once again...prices are not ARTIFICIAL if people are ACTUALLY PAYING THEM.

 

There is a DIFFERENCE between "artificial" and "sustainable."

 

Mile High's "everyday prices" = artificial. Nobody pays them. Overstreet "NM-" prices for 95% of the books in it = "artificial." Are you with me yet?

 

And quoting Harby #1 prices from 1998 is news to no one. I, for one, am glad, because if they hadn't crashed, I would have had a total of 2 copies to my name.

 

As far as "going for"...it was a lucky day indeed when anyone could find Harby #1s in NM WITH coupon for $5. That's almost NEVER been true.

 

Valiant was lucky to have been in the right place at the right time and be helped BIG time by Wizard and the speculators. I did enjoy those early books though. They could have been the next Dark Horse or IDW

 

You...honestly...have no real concept of how Valiant came to be what it was, do you?

 

Pre-Unity Valiant was not "helped" by Wizard and the speculators, nor were they "lucky" to have been in the right place at the right time. The strength of Valiant's popularity has always been pre-Unity. It was because pre-Unity Valiant was so GOOD that it became popular, not because they were "lucky", or were "pimped", or because of anything that came after Unity.

 

Valiant's rise mirrored that of the "New" X-Men: ignored at first, but then, when everyone discovered just how good this stuff was, they ran back and HAD to have the issues that came before. This is why X-Men #94 was a 60 cent comic in the 1978 OPG (almost three years after it came out), and a $60 one in the 1979 OPG. Same exact thing. Harby #1 was a $2 book in the 1992 OPG....and $100 in the 1993.

 

The difference is, X-Men maintained it's quality, and Valiant did not, and, of course, Valiant's rise happened much faster.

 

If pre-Unity wasn't good, the company would have been just like First, or Now, or Comico, or Continuity...just another independent putting out indepedent comics.

 

They could have been the next Marvel. And they blew it.

 

If no one was buying from Mile High at their "artificial" prices, how would they stay in business? I know how Valiant came to be and what they were, I'm pretty sure I've read all the same literature as you have. I don't see how pre Unity books were so popular...unless you mean soley as back issues? Their initial print runs were extremely small before the speculators jumped on board, scooping up anything they could find. I don't see how you can discount Wizard magazine as being instrumental in helping to grow Valiant, they helped pimp them out nearly as much as they did Image...though Image hardly needed the helping hand because they had all the hot creators of the day.

 

Funny..a couple of those publishers you mentioned lasted longer than Valiant did. They probably would've loved to have had longevity that First did Speaking of which, I would take American Flagg! over anything Valiant ever produced

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

If no one was buying from Mile High at their "artificial" prices, how would they stay in business?

 

Go to www.milehighcomics.com.

 

See what their pricing structure is.

 

Understand what the phrase "everyday prices" (as opposed to "sale prices", ESPECIALLY as it regards Mile High) means.

 

Then come back here, and we'll chat, huh?

 

(thumbs u

 

I know how Valiant came to be and what they were, I'm pretty sure I've read all the same literature as you have. I don't see how pre Unity books were so popular...unless you mean soley as back issues? Their initial print runs were extremely small before the speculators jumped on board, scooping up anything they could find. I don't see how you can discount Wizard magazine as being instrumental in helping to grow Valiant, they helped pimp them out nearly as much as they did Image...though Image hardly needed the helping hand because they had all the hot creators of the day.

 

......

 

(anyone else wanna point out the multiple problems with this paragraph?)

 

Funny..a couple of those publishers you mentioned lasted longer than Valiant did. They probably would've loved to have had longevity that First did Speaking of which, I would take American Flagg! over anything Valiant ever produced

 

Valiant began publishing comics in 1990, and ceased publication in 2002 with Turok: Evolution. (12 years)

 

First Comics published comics from 1983 to 1991. (8 years...what were you saying about longevity...? Of the 5 companies mentioned thusfar, First had the shortest lifespan.)

 

Continuity Comics published comics from 1984-1994 (their total output in those 10 years was 132 individual comics, or less than Valiant published in the year 1993 alone.) (10 years)

 

Now Comics published comics from 1985-1994. (9 years)

 

Comico Comics published comics from 1982 to 1997, so they lasted longer than Valiant/Acclaim, but only published sporadically after 1990 (while Acclaim published sporadically only after 1999.) (15 years)

 

None of which bears any relevance to the discussion, but I thought it'd be fun to pull out the actual facts, especially when you state that "a couple of those companies lasted longer than Valiant."

 

 

[porcupine48]

[Beau]

Valiant's rise mirrored that of the "New" X-Men: ignored at first, but then, when everyone discovered just how good this stuff was, they ran back and HAD to have the issues that came before. This is why X-Men #94 was a 60 cent comic in the 1978 OPG (almost three years after it came out), and a $60 one in the 1979 OPG. Same exact thing.

 

It may not be exactly germane to the current discussion, but I recommend that anyone who has reader copies of X-Men #96 or so up, read the letters pages. The fan backlash over the new team was tremendous. One letter in particular cracked me up after reading it recently; the writer recommended the team get rid of Wolverine, because he was a throwaway character at best, and annoying.

[comicalgems]

Can we go back to having real discussions about Valiant books, please. This is stupid. Oh, and btw:

 

 

Fit the screen, newb!

 

(thumbs u

 

She's known for doing a hobbit right?

[Logan510]

 

If no one was buying from Mile High at their "artificial" prices, how would they stay in business?

 

Go to www.milehighcomics.com.

 

See what their pricing structure is.

 

Understand what the phrase "everyday prices" (as opposed to "sale prices", ESPECIALLY as it regards Mile High) means.

 

Then come back here, and we'll chat, huh?

 

(thumbs u

 

I know how Valiant came to be and what they were, I'm pretty sure I've read all the same literature as you have. I don't see how pre Unity books were so popular...unless you mean soley as back issues? Their initial print runs were extremely small before the speculators jumped on board, scooping up anything they could find. I don't see how you can discount Wizard magazine as being instrumental in helping to grow Valiant, they helped pimp them out nearly as much as they did Image...though Image hardly needed the helping hand because they had all the hot creators of the day.

 

......

 

(anyone else wanna point out the multiple problems with this paragraph?)

 

Funny..a couple of those publishers you mentioned lasted longer than Valiant did. They probably would've loved to have had longevity that First did Speaking of which, I would take American Flagg! over anything Valiant ever produced

 

Valiant began publishing comics in 1990, and ceased publication in 2002 with Turok: Evolution. (12 years)

 

First Comics published comics from 1983 to 1991. (8 years...what were you saying about longevity...? Of the 5 companies mentioned thusfar, First had the shortest lifespan.)

 

Continuity Comics published comics from 1984-1994 (their total output in those 10 years was 132 individual comics, or less than Valiant published in the year 1993 alone.) (10 years)

 

Now Comics published comics from 1985-1994. (9 years)

 

Comico Comics published comics from 1982 to 1997, so they lasted longer than Valiant/Acclaim, but only published sporadically after 1990 (while Acclaim published sporadically only after 1999.) (15 years)

 

None of which bears any relevance to the discussion, but I thought it'd be fun to pull out the actual facts, especially when you state that "a couple of those companies lasted longer than Valiant."

 

 

I wasn't counting the years after the principles sold out to Acclaim. Their superhero line ( under the original ownership ) lasted 4 years...barely a footnote and hardly the "next Marvel". By the time Acclaim had bought them things were already going downhill fast. Technically they were publishing Valiant characters, but I don't really consider Acclaim Comics to be Valiant. I apologize if I wasn't being clear...it seemed to make a lot more sense in my head

[the blob]

she's purdy

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

I wasn't counting the years after the principles sold out to Acclaim. Their superhero line ( under the original ownership ) lasted 4 years...barely a footnote and hardly the "next Marvel". By the time Acclaim had bought them things were already going downhill fast. Technically they were publishing Valiant characters, but I don't really consider Acclaim Comics to be Valiant. I apologize if I wasn't being clear...it seemed to make a lot more sense in my head

 

Then we can cut quite a few years off the others, too. (thumbs u

 

Again, you look at it in hindsight. At the time, everyone was convinced the company was, in fact, the next Marvel...and considering the prices people paid for pre-Unity at one point, the analogies weren't inappropriate. Valiant had the world at their feet...and totally and thoroughly dropped the ball, through no one's fault but their own.

 

And I know it's not terribly important, but facts are facts...the "original" Valiant published superheroes for over 5 years. And, since the others published things other than superheroes, just like Valiant, the comparison still wobbles. (thumbs u

[the blob]

and totally and thoroughly dropped the ball, through no one's fault but their own.

---------------

 

the comic publishing bizness went into the krapper, that's what happened. Valiant just went into the krapper a few years before Marvel and DC. The irony is the booming profits of 1993 resulting from massive speculation on Turok 1, Deathmate, Magnus 25, etc. etc. etc. helped create a distaste in collectors' mouths that resulted in plummeting sales in 1994, 1995, etc. Putting aside quality issues (I really haven't read enough of them to know...the post-Unity/post-Shooter stuff "looks" good, I just don't know if it's well written) It's hard to shell out $2.25 for a new comic (particularly when the competition is $1.25) when it is in the 25 cent box the next month. If those sales from 1993 had just been averaged out with 94, 95, 96, 97, etc., Valiant comics would have actually been good steady sellers at 100-150,000 issues a month. Instead, they went from 1 million copies to 12,000 copies in 4 years (Turok).

 

Sure, X-Men and X-Forcre also dropped plenty by issue 48 or whatever, but were still in the hundreds of thousands.

[Logan510]

Who is this everyone you speak of? What made them different than any of the other superhero universes that sprung up at the time? I will say that I did enjoy their books early on, pretty good stuff. Thier most successful years financially were after Shooter got the boot and was fueled by the speculators, as was Image. Unless you're going to argue that Turok #1 or Bloodshot #1 were actually good comics and sold the numbers they did because people were actually reading them and not because they were #1 issues with gimmick covers.

[Chespirito]

 

Fit the screen, newb!

 

(thumbs u

 

Fits on mine....get a bigger monitor.

It's not the size of the monitor its how you use it...

[RockMyAmadeus]

and totally and thoroughly dropped the ball, through no one's fault but their own.

---------------

 

the comic publishing bizness went into the krapper, that's what happened. Valiant just went into the krapper a few years before Marvel and DC. The irony is the booming profits of 1993 resulting from massive speculation on Turok 1, Deathmate, Magnus 25, etc. etc. etc. helped create a distaste in collectors' mouths that resulted in plummeting sales in 1994, 1995, etc. Putting aside quality issues (I really haven't read enough of them to know...the post-Unity/post-Shooter stuff "looks" good, I just don't know if it's well written) It's hard to shell out $2.25 for a new comic (particularly when the competition is $1.25) when it is in the 25 cent box the next month. If those sales from 1993 had just been averaged out with 94, 95, 96, 97, etc., Valiant comics would have actually been good steady sellers at 100-150,000 issues a month. Instead, they went from 1 million copies to 12,000 copies in 4 years (Turok).

 

Sure, X-Men and X-Forcre also dropped plenty by issue 48 or whatever, but were still in the hundreds of thousands.

 

Well, of course. The biz went into the krapper BECAUSE of the poor business decisions made by everyone.

 

Perelman should have been INDICTED for what he did to Marvel and it blows me away that people STILL don't know about him or what he did.

 

The boys at Valiant got caught up in their own new fame, and never bothered to sit down and have THIS conversation:

 

EIC of Valiant: "Woohoo, we have orders for 1.75 MILLION copies of Turok #1!! Fire up the presses, boys!"

 

Fictional Employee of Valiant: "Ummm...guys, shouldn't we find out who's actually BUYING these copies, instead of just...ya know...printing bazillions of them because we can? You know, so we don't have a backlash against the company for glutting the market?"

 

EIC of Valiant: "Quiet, you! You're ruining the moment!"

 

FEV: "But, what if we're just selling 1,000 copies each to 1750 people? I mean, what's going to happen if the actual readers can't find a copy for cover price if these specualtors have sucked up all the copies from the marketplace before the readers have a chance? Don't we WANT to have readers for issue #12, #24, etc?"

 

EIC: "Well, you dummy, if we print LESS, that means the book will be even HARDER to find, won't it?"

 

FEV: "Not if we control distribution, it won't. Look, we can print, say, 500,000 first prints, and 200,000 second prints at the same time. We can hold back the second prints, and, if demand is there, we can release them then. Speculators HATE second prints anyways, so they won't touch them with a ten foot pole, and readers will actually get a chance to...ya know...READ the book. That way, we can cultivate a reader base that will see us through for years."

 

EIC: "are you INSANE??? We have ORDERS for 1.75 MILLION copies! Who CARES what the future holds, we're gonna be rich NOW!!"

 

And that's exactly what they did.

 

I'm a broken record: If somebody...ANYBODY...had shown ANY restraint, the industry might have been saved the destruction that was the late 1990's.

[Logan510]

Frankly, I wouldn't expect anyone in business to say it isn't a good idea to sell more. It just got to the point ( and Valiant was far from the worst or only offender ) where they were catering to the speculators with fake #1's, gimmick covers etc. What was inbetween the covers didn't matter most of the time and that is what drove a lot of the readership away. Remember, publishers don't care about what numbers the shops sell, they care about how many they buy.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Frankly, I wouldn't expect anyone in business to say it isn't a good idea to sell more.

 

And you would be wrong.

 

There are entire courses in Business devoted to understanding, supporting, and maintaining your customer base. "Selling more" is GREAT...IF you're selling to consumers. END USERS.

 

If the only buyers for a hot new Hasbro toy were speculators who kept the product from reaching the shelves, ensuring no actual consumers get them, oh sure, there might be some frenzy at the beginning that will do well for quarterly numbers...

 

But then the speculators dump them en masse 6 months later, the consumer has long since moved on, and, bcause of their distaste for the company, they buy nothing more from them, and Hasbro goes out of business.

 

I dunno about you, but going out of business is the last thing a business is supposed to do.

 

It just got to the point ( and Valiant was far from the worst or only offender ) where they were catering to the speculators with fake #1's, gimmick covers etc. What was inbetween the covers didn't matter most of the time and that is what drove a lot of the readership away. Remember, publishers don't care about what numbers the shops sell, they care about how many they buy.

 

Valiant was not the only offender, but they were among the worst (that being Marvel and Valiant.)

 

And I guarantee you, publishers care INTIMATELY how much shops sell. It is a foolish publisher, who will soon be out of business, who doesn't understand who is purchasing their products, and why.