PQ impact on grading

[FFB]

A good point, but in this instance not heavy, but what you see - I'd say moderate at worst. Plus there is no inside cover tanning. That being said, cream to off-white is almost universally associated with some cover tanning. This book was hit at least a full point, if not 1.5. Of course, it was evident, and admittedly, a risk I took. The hit was lessened by the two BA 9.4's that came back in the same box.

 

I'll bet it was the heavy tanning on the cover that knocked the grade of that book down, not the interior page quality. CR-OW is not uncommon to see on CGC 9.6 SA and BA books. Tanning on the cover is what knocks the grade down to the VF range. I remember during one of Nik's grading contests there was a book that looked to be 9.6 structurally and the real grade was something like 7.5/8.0 because of tanning on the cover.

 

I am still willing to bet that PQ had nothing to do with the grade hit. It was the tanning on the cover that did it. Have you called for the graders' notes?

[kaylab]

just found this topic, very timely as I just received this back from CGC...

 

 

I'm on the fence about a resub, this was sent in with other books of similar page quality from the same collection, the rest all returned back OW and OW/W, but this came back CR/OW. I'm curious if PQ can be wrapped up in the final grade, i.e. this books may have been found to be borderline 9.4 - 9.6 and pq was borderline OW - CR, so grading was pushed to 9.6 but pq was pulled down to CR? Possible?

[VintageComics]

I don't think PQ between c/ow and white will tip the grade but that's just an opinion on my part.

 

Remember also that actual "white" PQ on one publisher's book will be different from another so comparing Marvel to DC (or whatever) may not be accurate.

 

 

 

 

[Bomber-Bob]

I don't think PQ between c/ow and white will tip the grade but that's just an opinion on my part.

 

Remember also that actual "white" PQ on one publisher's book will be different from another so comparing Marvel to DC (or whatever) may not be accurate.

 

I was the one that suggested to Kaylab about my gut feeling (no proof) that CGC will balance grade tweeners with PQ tweeners. In any case I don't think the risk reward is there for a resub on this book. I would be content with the 9.6. IMHO the price difference between a 9.6 OW and 9.6 CR/OW on this book would be neglible,

if anything. For a Page quality guy like myself, a Bronze Age book with OW is not desirable.

[divad]

A good point, but in this instance not heavy, but what you see - I'd say moderate at worst. Plus there is no inside cover tanning. That being said, cream to off-white is almost universally associated with some cover tanning. This book was hit at least a full point, if not 1.5. Of course, it was evident, and admittedly, a risk I took. The hit was lessened by the two BA 9.4's that came back in the same box.

 

I'll bet it was the heavy tanning on the cover that knocked the grade of that book down, not the interior page quality. CR-OW is not uncommon to see on CGC 9.6 SA and BA books. Tanning on the cover is what knocks the grade down to the VF range. I remember during one of Nik's grading contests there was a book that looked to be 9.6 structurally and the real grade was something like 7.5/8.0 because of tanning on the cover.

 

I am still willing to bet that PQ had nothing to do with the grade hit. It was the tanning on the cover that did it. Have you called for the graders' notes?

 

Just called - right you are. Only one grader note: "Cover edges tan/brown." Confirmed also that COW pages typically would not impact the grade of a 9.0 or lower book. Higher grades may be affected.

 

 

 

[divad]

I don't think PQ between c/ow and white will tip the grade but that's just an opinion on my part.

 

Remember also that actual "white" PQ on one publisher's book will be different from another so comparing Marvel to DC (or whatever) may not be accurate.

 

 

Agreed, in fact, most of the COW DC's I've submitted, would be better described as Cream to White.

[divad]

I don't think the c/ow paper color is related to the cover stock at all.

 

I believe that when CGC mentions page quality they are simply taking into account interior pages.

 

R.

 

Hey Roy,

 

When I said "associated" I meant that often the storage conditions that result in one condition, also result in the other. Not meaning that COW is related to cover stock.

 

-d

[TeddieMercede]

CGC absolutely kills tanning halos on interior covers.

[VintageComics]

Confirmed also that COW pages typically would not impact the grade of a 9.0 or lower book. Higher grades may be affected.

 

 

 

That is good to know.

[kaylab]

I liked your theory bomber-bob, in fact that's what made me want to post here, I thought it made good sense, in the absence of anything else... I'm still leaning more towards resubbing, i just was curious if anyone else had thoughts about the grade vs pq discussion. Personally, I am comfortable with OW on bronze, so even a drop to 9.4 but bump to OW would sit better with me.

 

I just get the feeling PQ is at best a shoot with CGC, Grades (mostly) make sense but PQ is something I just can't consistently estimate.

[Boozad]

[nepatkm]

Really??? tan to cream, they don't appear to be that bad in the scan, is that just a label error? or is it worse in hand, still a great looking book Boozad.

[kaylab]

now that's impressive

[Boozad]

Really??? tan to cream, they don't appear to be that bad in the scan, is that just a label error? or is it worse in hand, still a great looking book Boozad.

 

It's not my book dude (thumbs u

 

In fact I have no idea whose it is!

[nepatkm]

Oh sorry Boozad. (Still looks great in the scan though.)

[divad]

"Tan to Cream" here appears to be referring to the two cover subjects . . .

[Bomber-Bob]

 

I remember we discussed this specific book a while back on the Boards. The concensus was it would NOT get a 9.8 by today's CGC standards. In fact, a tan page book will not even get a 9.4. Somebody said Mark Haspel doesn't like tan pages, neither do I.

[Boozad]

"Tan to Cream" here appears to be referring to the two cover subjects . . .

 

[FFB]

just found this topic, very timely as I just received this back from CGC...

 

 

I'm on the fence about a resub, this was sent in with other books of similar page quality from the same collection, the rest all returned back OW and OW/W, but this came back CR/OW. I'm curious if PQ can be wrapped up in the final grade, i.e. this books may have been found to be borderline 9.4 - 9.6 and pq was borderline OW - CR, so grading was pushed to 9.6 but pq was pulled down to CR? Possible?

 

Don't resub it - send it back for a PQ review. I have seen some really strange CR-OW designations by CGC that were just wrong.

 

CR-OW had no impact on the numerical grade of that book. You can take that to the bank. I have seen hundreds of bronze and silver age books with CR-OW that graded 9.6. I can't remember offhand whether I've seen a 9.8 with CR-OW, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[BlowUpTheMoon]

 

I remember we discussed this specific book a while back on the Boards. The concensus was it would NOT get a 9.8 by today's CGC standards. In fact, a tan page book will not even get a 9.4. Somebody said Mark Haspel doesn't like tan pages, neither do I.

 

From past discussions about PQ, I'm almost positive that the X-Men #214 was viewed as a mistake and 'recalled' by CGC.