Collecting high grade SA Marvels is making less and less sense to me

[COI]

Disclaimer: I'm not trying to tell anyone how they should or should not collect. Also, this post is not all that long, so suck it up and read. I ain't shortening it.

 

I love high grade books, but I'm coming to the realization that they may not be worth collecting anymore, at least not for me. There are a few reasons for this, so bear with me.

 

1) Most of what I'm interested in isn't rare, even in high grade. I'm mostly interested in ASM, in addition to some other random SA Marvels, but the vast majority aren't rare in 9.0 or higher.

 

2) The rarer SA Marvels I'm interested in are freaking expensive, and out of all the books in this hobby, they probably stand the best chance of retaining value. In other words, I don't know how much more room for growth there is on a Hulk 1 in 9.2, but I don't think it's likely to ever see a 70% drop in price in my lifetime.

 

3) Pressing is artifically increasing both the supply and price of high grade books. No, I'm not "anti-pressing", nor do I think that pressers are anywhere near pedophiles on the scum-bag food chain, but facts are facts. A 9.0 pressed into a 9.4 is not only making 9.4 copies of that book more plentiful, but is also increasing the price of that specific copy.

 

4) I don't have a collection to build on. What I mean is, I wasn't around, buying high grade for pennies on the dollar in the '80s and '90s, so I have nothing to add to, or to use to subsidize new purchases. I remember that Ghost Town once remarked that if he had to start all over again, there's no way he'd have anything close to what he has now, and would probably narrow his focus to the Bronze age.

 

When taking all of these things into consideration, I've come to the conclusion that collecting high grade SA Marvels doesn't make a whole lot of sense for "average" collectors such as myself.

 

- What's the point of paying hundreds or thousands of dollars for a 9.4/9.6 copy of a non-key that isn't the "best", or rare, when you can get a perfectly presentable copy for a fraction of that cost?

 

- What's the point in having a 9.6 ASM 100, if your copy of ASM 1 is a 6.5? Neither are unique. And you could take all that money you save on 9.4/9.6 non-keys, and put that towards getting as nice of a copy of the mega-key as possible.

 

- What's the point of depriving yourself of the pleasure of owning a copy of a book you've wanted for years, simply because you've fooled yourself into believing that only a copy in X.X or above will do?

 

In that sense, I admire the approach that many GA collectors take to collecting. Because so many GA books are unavailable or unattainable in certain grades, I've noticed that the emphasis is on owning a copy - any copy - of a desired book.

 

In the context of collecting SA Marvels, finding a copy is obviously not a challenge. But IMO, buying 9.4s and 9.6s, for the average collector, is an artificial challenge in the sense that it's usually about creating a financial barrier in the absence of scarcity. More that that, I think it's about satisfying the need for instant gratification; getting a book that is "high status" or "praise-worthy" (high number on the label) many times a year, instead of holding out and getting one "praise worthy" book every couple of years.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MK Ultra]

How does an increase in supply of 9.4 of any issue increase price instead of lowering, if demand remains constant, like basic economics theory suggests? Or are you saying that for every pressed 9.0 into 9.4 creates more than one new collector for 9.4?

[jordanscott]

D

 

- What's the point in having a 9.6 ASM 100, if your copy of ASM 1 is a 6.5? Neither are unique. And you could take all that money you save on 9.4/9.6 non-keys, and put that towards getting as nice of a copy of the mega-key as possible.

 

 

Well I mean, you answer your question right there.

 

Do you worship the number or the book?

[Count]

 

This would explain why more and more people slowly but surely begin collecting GA...

[Norrin_Radd]

I don't know how much more room for growth there is on a Hulk 1 in 9.2, but I don't think it's likely to ever see a 70% drop in price in my lifetime.

Actually, that probably will happen in your lifetime. Younger generations aren't going to demand that book like baby boomers and Gen X do.

[marvelcollector]

From a monetary point of view, not much to disagree with.

 

I've always been quite happy with VF copies of SA Marvels, and could never justify the multiples of expense the 9.x books entail, for , really not a much nicer looking book, seeing the forest for the trees.....

 

I've had a decent base of issues bought off the newstand, so that helps. What 9.x books I have were mostly aquired that way.

 

[COI]

How does an increase in supply of 9.4 of any issue increase price instead of lowering, if demand remains constant, like basic economics theory suggests? Or are you saying that for every pressed 9.0 into 9.4 creates more than one new collector for 9.4?

 

CGC 9.0s sell for less than CGC 9.4s. Turning a 9.0 into a 9.4 makes that specific book more expensive, while adding to the supply of 9.4s.

 

[COI]

D

 

- What's the point in having a 9.6 ASM 100, if your copy of ASM 1 is a 6.5? Neither are unique. And you could take all that money you save on 9.4/9.6 non-keys, and put that towards getting as nice of a copy of the mega-key as possible.

 

 

Well I mean, you answer your question right there.

 

Do you worship the number or the book?

 

I like using rhetorical questions to make points.

[catrick339]

Howdy Captain, you make perfect sense to me. You're stepping back into the era where I came in, when everybody wanted these books because they're so much FUN! You need ALL the issues so you don't miss any great storytelling!

 

I'd MUCH rather have a run of Fantastic Four 1-100 in g-vg than a slabbed 9.4 of anything. Comics were meant to be read, and if you have more issues to read you have more pleasure at your beck and call. Besides, if you get some Cheeto dust on a page of a FF 56 you don't feel particularly guilty or sad, you brush it off and keep reading.

 

I am, in fact, rebuilding my SA Marvel collection (along with select DC titles) this year and next. I sold 'em off, once I had the Masterworks and Essentials on the bookshelf, thinking that those would do if I wanted to read the stories. As it turns out, the rest of the comics besides the story add something indefinable, by me at least, but I find that I enjoy the comics much more than the HC's or TPB;s.

 

Buy that pretty 5.0 for a fraction of the cost of a 9.6, and spend the rest of your dough on more comics!

 

 

[Hamlet]

I think everyone needs to find their own collecting sweet spot.

 

I got back into collecting in the last year or so, and was amazed at some of the changes. I looked at the price guide for SA Marvels and talked to my friends who never stopped collecting, and realized that nice 6.0-7.0 copies are the kind that serve me best.

 

A strictly graded 6.0 book is only 50% more than a 4.0 book, but it can have much stronger eye appeal. On the other hand, an 8.0 copy is three times (at least) what a 6.0 is. It has greater eye appeal, but to me it is not worth 3 times as much.

 

My closest collecting friend disagrees. He would rather have one 8.0 than 3 6.0's. He probably would rather have 1 9.0's than two 8.0's. However, the pricing for grades above that make him pause a little.

 

Other collectors might prefer 2.0 books (or worse). They may want to collect an expensive run, and the only way they can afford it is in 2.0. Or they may just want to own as many books as possible, and would rather stretch their dollars to more books.

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

I know I am a broken record on this topic, but if you don't want to spend megabucks on books then you have to figure out what you price point is and do the best job of collecting that you can. As greggy (and now Watson apparently) will attest, I always punk out at the top end price point. This goes all the way back to Ebay days and getting rump-pounded by greggy, serpi8ul9, sullypython, pastimperfekt etc. on top end books.

 

So for Late Silver and Bronze I have always been a 9.6 or immaculate 9.4 guy. I pride myself on getting the best looking books for the grade. Of course i have some miscut turds and my famous 9.6 Welcome back Kotter with CR-OW pages, but those were all absolute steals. They key is getting a beautiful book for the right dough.

 

For regular Silver Age books, 8.5 and 9.0 can provide some stunningly good looking books. I will not act like a dilt and say there are no visible differences. Of course there are. But an 8.5 or 9.0 where most of the issues are on the back cover, or are spine rubs or NCB wear, for example, can be breathtakingly beautiful.

 

On these boards, the number on the left rules over all, but in reality if you look at some of these VF+ and VF/NM books they are gorgeous and they still satisfy the nostalgia. I'll send you some pictures of some of my 8.5-9.0 Silver Age SS books if you want for reference, or my 8.5 Marin County JIM 104.

[namisgr]

Many of the comics that are graded 8.5, 9.0, or 9.2 by CGC are gorgeous. Being stunning copies, and at a fraction of the price of a higher graded example, why not focus on them?

 

If it's scarcity rather than eye appeal that's your primary focus, then concentrate on Marvels from 1962-64. Most remain scarce in high grade.

 

Or, you could smoke crack and not care a bit about the status of your collection.

[Foolkiller]

Andrew,

 

I've found that I was thinking the same thing a short while back, but I've recently directed my focus towards eye appeal -- deep, rich colors, nice paper (generally) and very little surface wear. Early books are what I focus on, but basically, I look for all the cool covers just generally and keys.

 

There's tons of great books out there... and I'm looking for "deals" and books I can pick up cheaply.

 

I've bought a ton of books for my personal collection lately including early JIMs, early FFs, early ASMs etc. and haven't focused on grade. As I've scoured comic book stores in my area, I've come up with some unbelievable deals for personal collection -- example: a VF+ or better IM 1 with unbelievably rich colors and white paper -- $200... you have to alter the challenge to suit what interests you. For me, it's really challenge of finding the "right" book, and to do so raw, not always a book in a label. In fact, I've been re-energized about collecting for myself since changing gears as there is still nothing like holding an incredible looking book -- so it has a view spine stresses or a corner crease... a book with deep rich colors and little to no surface impressions can be incredible too. I'm over owning 9.4s.

[Foolkiller]

Also, let me add that I'm not suggesting you collect low grade as for many, that doesn't do it for them -- I'm suggesting buying what you love as the high grade attributes and relearning to love the books again... especially for what they are -- hey I just bought a Cap Comics 26... very excited, and a "lowly" 8.0

[dwip99]

 

Or, you could smoke crack and not care a bit about the status of your collection.

 

Have you been spying on me

[COI]

Andrew,

 

I've found that I was thinking the same thing a short while back, but I've recently directed my focus towards eye appeal -- deep, rich colors, nice paper (generally) and very little surface wear. Early books are what I focus on, but basically, I look for all the cool covers just generally and keys.

 

There's tons of great books out there... and I'm looking for "deals" and books I can pick up cheaply.

 

I've bought a ton of books for my personal collection lately including early JIMs, early FFs, early ASMs etc. and haven't focused on grade. As I've scoured comic book stores in my area, I've come up with some unbelievable deals for personal collection -- example: a VF+ or better IM 1 with unbelievably rich colors and white paper -- $200... you have to alter the challenge to suit what interests you. For me, it's really challenge of finding the "right" book, and to do so raw, not always a book in a label. In fact, I've been re-energized about collecting for myself since changing gears as there is still nothing like holding an incredible looking book -- so it has a view spine stresses or a corner crease... a book with deep rich colors and little to no surface impressions can be incredible too. I'm over owning 9.4s.

 

(thumbs u That ASM 11 you picked up from Chris was an awesome buy.

[comicalgems]

I'm personally shifting my focus to any grade ASM books and key BA books. SA is just a monster I'm not ready to tackle until I've filled out ASM first.

[COI]

So for Late Silver and Bronze I have always been a 9.6 or immaculate 9.4 guy. I pride myself on getting the best looking books for the grade. Of course i have some miscut turds and my famous 9.6 Welcome back Kotter with CR-OW pages, but those were all absolute steals. They key is getting a beautiful book for the right dough.

 

I really like 9.2/9.4. The thing is, I like having a "uniform" collection, so if my ASM 51-100 run is going to be 9.2/9.4, I want the rest of my collection, including the early SA monsters, to be the same, otherwise I don't see the point. Unfortunately, that's way too cost prohibitive. So the way I'm looking at it now is, if I would be thrilled with an AF 15 in 7.0, logically I should be fine with an ASM 100 in 7.0-8.0 as well.

[october]

Collecting comics, at all, is making less and less sense to me. I still like the odd 50s book that doesn't break the bank, or semi-obscure early 60s DC genre titles, but for the most part the hobby has lost a lot of its lustre.

 

I picked up a PS3 as a Christmas present for my girlfriend (which we opened early) and in the past two weeks I have bought about a dozen games for myself. Already beat Killzone 2 and I am now on CoDMW1. Posts on video games, including yours and Bronty's, served as partial inspiration.

 

Spending money on something I can more actively enjoy, without an eye towards future value or grade, has been a lot of fun. I see myself moving more and more towards that, evidenced by my rapidly decreasing weekly post count here and my rapidly increasing video game expenditures.

[Bomber-Bob]

Captain, what you said makes sense and I totally agree.

I do (did) have a large collection of SA and some BA from which I started slabbing about three years ago. Unfortunately, I started to get caught up in the uber grade

syndrome and often wasn't satified with my slabbing results. However, I am slowing changing. As long as the book as eye appeal and page quality the following are now acceptable to me.

- Any 10 cent non-key SA in 7.5 or above.

- Any 10 cent SA key in 5.0 or above.

- Any 12 cent SA in 9.0 or above, including keys.

- Any BA keys in 9.2 or above.

- Early BA in 9.4, Late BA in 9.6 .

- I still want 9.8 in copper and Modern.