Complete Restoration Experiments

[Ze-man]

I'll chime in to say I love reading these threads. They're some of the best the entire boards has to offer. Thank you for sharing.

 

Having said that, I think it's silly you got lured into the "secret society" approach to discussing comic book restoration. Using terms like "glue A" is much less interesting and really unnecessary.

 

Like a renown chef who goes on tv to demonstrate exactly how he prepares his most requested dish, naming each and every ingredient in detail, it increases trust. Sure, a hand full of chef-wannabes may give it a go. But most viewers will be fascinated by details and gladly pay the chef for his skills and expertise. Patronage probably goes way up, not down (or they would go on tv).

 

That's my and . Still, some is better than none, so thank you. And I hope you'll revisit your choice of withholding details (most of which could be googled by determined wannabes anyway).

 

It would be helpful if you explained exactly what you did at each stage. That would make it a lot easier to give you feedback and to make suggestions for other stuff you might try. I see one thing in particular that you could probably do to the upper right corner of the book to minimize or even get rid of the hard crease that is there. It's a white cover, so certain things are possible that aren't possible with inked covers.

 

I have been giving what you said some thought and talked to some others as well and here is what I have come up with.

Unlike someone such as Zeman who is an accomplished paper conservator, I need the help of others to improve my work. Collectors help me by letting me know what they like about my work and what they don’t like. Restoration enthusiast’s like you Scott help me by making suggestions on how to do the work right and those are the ones who need the details how I did it. I know it would be more of a pain then if it was to just list it here but it would be best if I describe what I used in private with PM”S which I hope I will get more of. Some people want to tell me in private their tips and some want to do it here which is fine with me.

 

I do appreciate all the help I get and I do pass it forward to the next person looking for help. I feel that I should be careful what I reveal to the general public as I feel a responsibility to the craft and others safety. Allot of what I do is hazardous to your health and others around you without the right equipment and setting. I think others who make a living doing this would prefer I do it this way as well.

 

Now that I said that there are things I still could have listed. For example I did not take the book apart to remove the ink. When I dry cleaned it I did the white area’s only and avoided the text area’s. Pressing was done with heat and humidity.

I hope my feelings about this matter gel well with all.

 

 

I think you will find while even the most open conservators in the world freely talk about known commodities, but when it comes down to "how" they might use or apply commonly known materials they can become very proprietary. Try and get a conservation lab to discuss in detail how might they remove certain types of stains and all of a sudden they become very cryptic, because they too are "competing" for the same commisions.

 

Same with comic restoration, while all the materials used are basically known to everyone, how they are applied by different individuals is what makes or breaks the work done. So I totally understand somebody not wanting to disclose in detail how something is done, especially if that something is how they might make a living.

 

Look at leaf casting, you can google up and read the exact same things we did(which wasn't much) It is the hundreds of hours of leg work and netted results that I consider to be private property even if that does not further peoples education, or make for interesting discussion. Same as how somebody might wet wash, or blot a GA cover...it really is all basic stuff..but becomes QUITE involved once you get into the finer details of what makes what work best. The devil really is in the details, and those details come at a price. Hard work.

 

In the end I am all for educating everyone on what to look for in restoration, but I am not about to educate them on how it is done. Mike might be of a different mindset and that is ultimately his choice.

 

It's has nothing to do with it being "secret society mentality", but everything to do with it being, "just business".

 

 

 

 

 

[Ze-man]

Glue a = Methyl Cellulose Glue B= Wheat and water Glue C = wheat and glycerin

 

I read in one of your tear repair topics you used an overlap glue first to seal the tear which I assumed was Methyl Cellulose, then you used wheat paste to lay down the tissue. I have also talked to others who use Methyl Cellulose for sealing tears.

 

So I am wonering why you suggest to use only one glue.

 

Yes I will stop using the ink remover.

 

Thanks for your advise.

 

You are correct, you can and should glue a tear first if it has a surface area that overlaps the other half. It makes the repair stronger. But overall, less glue applications is typically better.

 

Cellulose can be and is used as a binding agent. But I simply feel it is "too" water solluble for heavy structural repair work. A starch based glue yields better results.

 

OMG, I just gave up Secret Society stuff!! They're gonna black ball me!

 

 

[Green]

I'll chime in to say I love reading these threads. They're some of the best the entire boards has to offer. Thank you for sharing.

 

Having said that, I think it's silly you got lured into the "secret society" approach to discussing comic book restoration. Using terms like "glue A" is much less interesting and really unnecessary.

 

Like a renown chef who goes on tv to demonstrate exactly how he prepares his most requested dish, naming each and every ingredient in detail, it increases trust. Sure, a hand full of chef-wannabes may give it a go. But most viewers will be fascinated by details and gladly pay the chef for his skills and expertise. Patronage probably goes way up, not down (or they would go on tv).

 

That's my and . Still, some is better than none, so thank you. And I hope you'll revisit your choice of withholding details (most of which could be googled by determined wannabes anyway).

 

It would be helpful if you explained exactly what you did at each stage. That would make it a lot easier to give you feedback and to make suggestions for other stuff you might try. I see one thing in particular that you could probably do to the upper right corner of the book to minimize or even get rid of the hard crease that is there. It's a white cover, so certain things are possible that aren't possible with inked covers.

 

I have been giving what you said some thought and talked to some others as well and here is what I have come up with.

Unlike someone such as Zeman who is an accomplished paper conservator, I need the help of others to improve my work. Collectors help me by letting me know what they like about my work and what they don’t like. Restoration enthusiast’s like you Scott help me by making suggestions on how to do the work right and those are the ones who need the details how I did it. I know it would be more of a pain then if it was to just list it here but it would be best if I describe what I used in private with PM”S which I hope I will get more of. Some people want to tell me in private their tips and some want to do it here which is fine with me.

 

I do appreciate all the help I get and I do pass it forward to the next person looking for help. I feel that I should be careful what I reveal to the general public as I feel a responsibility to the craft and others safety. Allot of what I do is hazardous to your health and others around you without the right equipment and setting. I think others who make a living doing this would prefer I do it this way as well.

 

Now that I said that there are things I still could have listed. For example I did not take the book apart to remove the ink. When I dry cleaned it I did the white area’s only and avoided the text area’s. Pressing was done with heat and humidity.

I hope my feelings about this matter gel well with all.

 

 

I think you will find while even the most open conservators in the world freely talk about known commodities, but when it comes down to "how" they might use or apply commonly known materials they can become very proprietary. Try and get a conservation lab to discuss in detail how might they remove certain types of stains and all of a sudden they become very cryptic, because they too are "competing" for the same commisions.

 

Same with comic restoration, while all the materials used are basically known to everyone, how they are applied by different individuals is what makes or breaks the work done. So I totally understand somebody not wanting to disclose in detail how something is done, especially if that something is how they might make a living.

 

Look at leaf casting, you can google up and read the exact same things we did(which wasn't much) It is the hundreds of hours of leg work and netted results that I consider to be private property even if that does not further peoples education, or make for interesting discussion. Same as how somebody might wet wash, or blot a GA cover...it really is all basic stuff..but becomes QUITE involved once you get into the finer details of what makes what work best. The devil really is in the details, and those details come at a price. Hard work.

 

In the end I am all for educating everyone on what to look for in restoration, but I am not about to educate them on how it is done. Mike might be of a different mindset and that is ultimately his choice.

 

It's has nothing to do with it being "secret society mentality", but everything to do with it being, "just business".

 

 

 

 

Spoken like a true tradesman.

[Davenport]

 

I think you will find while even the most open conservators in the world freely talk about known commodities, but when it comes down to "how" they might use or apply commonly known materials they can become very proprietary. Try and get a conservation lab to discuss in detail how might they remove certain types of stains and all of a sudden they become very cryptic, because they too are "competing" for the same commisions.

 

Same with comic restoration, while all the materials used are basically known to everyone, how they are applied by different individuals is what makes or breaks the work done. So I totally understand somebody not wanting to disclose in detail how something is done, especially if that something is how they might make a living.

 

Look at leaf casting, you can google up and read the exact same things we did(which wasn't much) It is the hundreds of hours of leg work and netted results that I consider to be private property even if that does not further peoples education, or make for interesting discussion. Same as how somebody might wet wash, or blot a GA cover...it really is all basic stuff..but becomes QUITE involved once you get into the finer details of what makes what work best. The devil really is in the details, and those details come at a price. Hard work.

 

In the end I am all for educating everyone on what to look for in restoration, but I am not about to educate them on how it is done. Mike might be of a different mindset and that is ultimately his choice.

 

It's has nothing to do with it being "secret society mentality", but everything to do with it being, "just business".

 

No argument from me, and in a way you're making my point.

 

Re-read what you wrote and notice you're mainly describing the "artistic" part. Experimentation with ingredients, practice, finesse, devotion, practice, temperament, patience and time.

 

I could watch hours and hours of artists wielding markers in minute detail, know they perfer Copic over Prismacolor, and it won't make me artistic or competition. No need to be proprietary.

[Hero Restoration]

I am really on the fence when it comes to divulging details. I think it really depends on whose shoes you are in. Let’s use magic tricks for an example.

When I watch a magic trick I am astonished at the allusion and I try to run in my mind how it is done but when a magician shows me how it’s done the trick loses its appeal. Also let’s remember that when a magician or even a chef does divulge the details they are getting paid to do so which makes it worthwhile to share.

So let’s say you’re a magician who enjoys mystifying the audience and now you have this yahoo on TV showing everyone how it’s done. If I was in a magician’s shoes I think I would be very upset since secrecy is what gives magic its strength. If I wanted to learn magic, it’s likely I would have to pay for the knowledge which again is a business.

Ok, back in my shoes again. I am trying to gather information for free and sure I want others to share everything with me but I don’t get upset when they don’t because I understand business and competition. Why would Kenny share with me details which could accelerate my learning to become his competition sooner? I consider it a miracle the Kenny and others share with me what they do when there’s the potential of me splitting up the pie more. Plus I can understand how people don’t want to just hand over in one shot what took them many of hours to perfect.

I do believe in paying it forward which is why I share anything in a PM, but I would like to save a little magic for the general public so that they say “wow I can’t believe that could be fixed. It’s nice to impress people with results and have a little mystery how it’s done. Dry cleaning is a good example. Most people don’t know that is done with good old fashion erasers so when they find out the results lose some of their wow factor and I want to wow people. That’s why I used Glue A,B,C, I thought it would be enough to say I used different glue’s but not to reveal what glue’s they are. I am still getting a feel for what is appropriate to disclose and what’s not to so remember I am a work in progress.

 

[Davenport]

If someone comes up with a technique unique in paper conservation that gives them some competitive edge they shouldn't reveal it. No one expects that. Truly. Reveal only what you're comfortable with. (thumbs u

 

What I might do is start a paper conservation video thread. Mainly to show the "secret" is basically out, and in the broader world appears to be a very collaborative art/science . Plus it may be interesting to see and hear document restorers at work, see their environment, tools and techniques.

 

I don't know how many decent videos are on the net, but slowly over time I could post up whatever I find. Hope you'll take a look.

 

[Ze-man]

Would you stop already with the secret malarky?

 

While I can't speak for Matt, Susan or Tracey as to why they don't have an open door policy. I personally am under contract to not talk about propietary stuff, so I don't. And even if I could, I probably wouldn't because it takes so much time and effort to translate known conso applications to comic books. It is what it is.

 

That said, all the same stuff you and I have found on the internet about conso/resto is available to everyone who cares to look into it, so it baffles me as to why you keep harping that basic known resto processes are "secret"

 

It's ALL out there if you look hard enough.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Davenport]

Would you stop already with the secret malarky?

 

While I can't speak for Matt, Susan or Tracey as to why they don't have an open door policy. I personally am under contract to not talk about propitary stuff so I don't. And even if I could, I probably wouldn't because it takes time and effort to translate known conso applications to comic books. It is what it is.

 

That said, all the same stuff you and I have found on the internet about conso/resto is available to everyone who cares to look into it, so it baffles me as to why you keep harping that basic known resto processes are "secret"

 

It's ALL out there if you look hard enough.

I'm not "harping". And I understand your position. But in a general "overall" sense I don't see restoration as "magic acts" to hide (although it does create a wow-effect), but more like art and science that evolved through documentation and collaboration.

 

Anyway, looking for videos one thing confirmed my opinion. You can find detail on all kinds of paper restoration - books, documents, posters, calendars, cards, stamps... But not comic books.

That obvious void is both cultural... and silly. In my opinion.

 

BTW, I had no idea what "spun polyester" looked like until seeing a video moments ago. It just fascinating to see the details in action. (thumbs u

[Hero Restoration]

[font:Comic Sans MS]Book 4 Amazing Spiderman #19[/font]

 

Work performed on book:

 

remove non original staples

Remove tape

Dry clean

Press

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Isn't this sad? A perfectly good book ruined

with tape and not just the transparent kind.

 

 

Before I remove the tape which is only on the outside of cover (thank god)

I want to detach the cover from the pages so I don't get un-needed solvent

on the and create much more work. Since the tape covers the staples I will

have to open the prongs at the centerfold and them pull them out with the

cover.

 

But then I discover another roadblock.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It wasn't bad enough that this book was taped without cause but

someone stapled two more staples right through the whole book.

I hope this was a child who did this because if an adult did it they

must have been out of their mind.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I carefully remove the two staples so that I could get to the staples that

do belong opened.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here you see the cover off with one staple still stuck in there.

I was able to remove the bottom one since the non original staples

were very close to the original.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sigh, due to the tape not being transparent I couldn't really see

what I was doing and made a few mistakes. I would have preferred

no color loss and no tearing but I ended up with a little of both.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

After I reattached the cover I dry cleaning the front and back.

If the after of the FC looks whiter that is because the solvent I

use on the tape also removes other oils and cleans the cover

without effecting the colors.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In this pressing example you can see on the left Spidey has some

dings and creases and on the right most of them are completely gone.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here you can see the most of the overhang crease is gone.

I still need work in the department.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well thats it folks, let me know what you think.

All feedback is welcome, really.

[Green]

[universal soldier]

I can't believe someone would do that to a comic for no good reason. Looks much better.

[Boboset]

You did a really good job MCP! (thumbs u

The tape removal looks much better than the times I've tried.

 

[Boboset]

Do you have a close up picture of the ink removal on the cover of that ASM annual#1? I can't see how it looks after being trated and would like to see what type of progress you made from one book to the next.

 

You've come a long way, I don''t hate you anymore.

It is fun to watch you learn and see the progress you've made.

[kdoginohio]

Wish I had a ASM #19 to tinker with.

[JazzMan]

Nice. (thumbs u

 

One thing that I must applaud you is that after getting on the boards with some of your restoration attempts, you've taken all the razzing and listened to the feedback from those that are more experienced and done something with it and improved your technique instead of becoming totally defensive an not going forward.

[Hero Restoration]

Do you have a close up picture of the ink removal on the cover of that ASM annual#1? I can't see how it looks after being trated and would like to see what type of progress you made from one book to the next.

 

You've come a long way, I don''t hate you anymore.

It is fun to watch you learn and see the progress you've made.

 

That's good news Boboset, even Universal soldier said it looked better. When I read that I just about fell out of my chair.

 

I wasn't happy with the ink removal on ASM A#1 so no need to see it up close. I am going to experiment on beaters until I find something that isn't bad for the paper and leave a mark.

 

 

[towards2112]

Hey Mike,

When you get tired of comics or need a break from big things, I have a

few postage stamps that need some work.....

Phil

[Hero Restoration]

Hey Mike,

When you get tired of comics or need a break from big things, I have a

few postage stamps that need some work.....

Phil

 

That sounds interesting and fun. PM sent.

[Warlord]

Hey Mike,

When you get tired of comics or need a break from big things, I have a

few postage stamps that need some work.....

Phil

 

That sounds interesting and fun. PM sent.

 

Are you taking on pity projects? I'd love to see the garage sale grease pen (not sure what it is, but I'd say it's not magic marker) markings removed from these DC Whitmans. They're not very valuable so I can't see ever sinking money into getting them cleaned, but they are pretty HTF and the markings are pretty ugly. Looks like the ebay seller I bought them from tried to remove the markings with something because a couple of them are smeared a bit...

 

I see you've been experimenting with pen removal, have you attempted removal of this sort of marking?

 

[Hero Restoration]

Wow, not only don't I think anything can be done about that, I am not sure anyone could.

 

I havent found anything that removes ink that doesn't either damage or remove the origianl ink too.

 

Sorry, got any comics with tape on them?