Should I get back into OA?

[CollectingFool]

I think with CAF the visibility of comic art has been increased and the hobby gets a lot more casual collectors now. From what I've seen a lot of people think it's a natural progression going to OA from comics and they do it because they think it's the next step. I guess after a while they realize you have to be a little nutty to get fully immersed into the hobby and dedicate the time needed to get the harder to find pieces. Prices are a major issue as well. The hobby itself is a little harder for a casual collector with prices being so completely subjective unlike other hobbies where price guides can at least give you a clue. Doesn't surprise me so many casual collectors bail after feeling they've overpaid for something or being frustrated at not finding the type of stuff they wanted.

 

I'm getting the feeling Hari and I are both either bored at work or off today!

 

[jjonahjameson1]

I think with CAF the visibility of comic art has been increased and the hobby gets a lot more casual collectors now. From what I've seen a lot of people think it's a natural progression going to OA from comics and they do it because they think it's the next step. I guess after a while they realize you have to be a little nutty to get fully immersed into the hobby and dedicate the time needed to get the harder to find pieces. Prices are a major issue as well. The hobby itself is a little harder for a casual collector with prices being so completely subjective unlike other hobbies where price guides can at least give you a clue. Doesn't surprise me so many casual collectors bail after feeling they've overpaid for something or being frustrated at not finding the type of stuff they wanted.

 

I'm getting the feeling Hari and I are both either bored at work or off today!

 

Hi, Ruben: I don't think we should limit the exodus to casual collectors because that's simply not the case. I know of several collectors that have gotten out or are in the process of getting out now that were quite passionate and involved in collecting OA.

[CollectingFool]

I don't think we should limit the exodus to casual collectors because that's simply not the case. I know of several collectors that have gotten out or are in the process of getting out now that were quite passionate and involved in collecting OA.

 

I know the prices have driven out a lot of collectors and some have just been into it long enough to have found what they want. We were talking about the aparently increased number of people leaving the hobby and from what I've seen, when people post "OK, I'm selling off my collection" most of the stuff is some recent convention sketches and a handful of pages acquired over the last couple of years.

 

I wasn't saying they're all casual collectors, just that the increase of casual collectors in the hobby might be responsible for the spike.

 

[tylerdurden-migration]

If these collectors want to get out of the hobby so easily, just because the primo stuff is more expensive or they can't find pieces they want. then in my book they werent really IN the hobby to begin with

 

Buying a few sketches at a convention doesnt count for diddly. Thats not beng IN the hobby

[jjonahjameson1]

I don't think we should limit the exodus to casual collectors because that's simply not the case. I know of several collectors that have gotten out or are in the process of getting out now that were quite passionate and involved in collecting OA.

 

I know the prices have driven out a lot of collectors and some have just been into it long enough to have found what they want. We were talking about the aparently increased number of people leaving the hobby and from what I've seen, when people post "OK, I'm selling off my collection" most of the stuff is some recent convention sketches and a handful of pages acquired over the last couple of years.

 

I wasn't saying they're all casual collectors, just that the increase of casual collectors in the hobby might be responsible for the spike.

 

Hi, Ruben;

That's certainly true. One thing I've noticed more frequently is the increased listings of pieces on consignment to some of the major online dealers' sites. I recognize several pieces for sale that were/are in the hands of major collectors.

[arzach42]

Research....Research....Research...know your market.

 

This is how you get the best deal if you are paying cash (credit card, loan, etc) for Original Art.

 

If you have much art to trade then of course you can maximize the "value" of what you paid for the "value" of what you can get.

 

IMO, a lot of art changes hands from dealer to dealer where the price changes only for the sake of raising the price.

 

I buy art from a certain Marvel Comic book. I know I own more art from that comic book than anyone else. Yet, prices are going up on OA from the book only in Dealer sites. Auction prices have stabilized or only increased slightly.

 

Yes, I buy from dealers, but only after i take up my usual refrain:

 

Research....Research....Research...know your market.

 

(and of course have something they want)

 

[heartened]

I think with CAF the visibility of comic art has been increased and the hobby gets a lot more casual collectors now. From what I've seen a lot of people think it's a natural progression going to OA from comics and they do it because they think it's the next step. I guess after a while they realize you have to be a little nutty to get fully immersed into the hobby and dedicate the time needed to get the harder to find pieces. Prices are a major issue as well. The hobby itself is a little harder for a casual collector with prices being so completely subjective unlike other hobbies where price guides can at least give you a clue. Doesn't surprise me so many casual collectors bail after feeling they've overpaid for something or being frustrated at not finding the type of stuff they wanted.

 

I'm getting the feeling Hari and I are both either bored at work or off today!

 

Hi, Ruben: I don't think we should limit the exodus to casual collectors because that's simply not the case. I know of several collectors that have gotten out or are in the process of getting out now that were quite passionate and involved in collecting OA.

 

Serious collectors have left. But for the most part they take their art with them. In other words, they keep the cream and sell off the crop. Those collectors always have a chance of coming back into the hobby, and they know it.

 

[kimik]

I am just a newbie in the OA world so I do not have much advice to share, but I have just focused on covers that I like and are in a price range I can afford. Buy what you like and can afford and you will do fine. From what I can tell the only drawback to OA is that it is not as easy to sell on short notice if you need to as a slabbed SA or BA key comic.

[Lebowski]

I think with CAF the visibility of comic art has been increased and the hobby gets a lot more casual collectors now. From what I've seen a lot of people think it's a natural progression going to OA from comics and they do it because they think it's the next step. I guess after a while they realize you have to be a little nutty to get fully immersed into the hobby and dedicate the time needed to get the harder to find pieces. Prices are a major issue as well. The hobby itself is a little harder for a casual collector with prices being so completely subjective unlike other hobbies where price guides can at least give you a clue. Doesn't surprise me so many casual collectors bail after feeling they've overpaid for something or being frustrated at not finding the type of stuff they wanted.

 

 

I'm a newbie to the OA hobby myself. Jumped in feet first about 6-7 months ago and am enjoying it immensely. Mostly, I buy modern stuff by artists like Eric Powell, Rob Guillory, Tony Moore, etc. My stuff certainly comes nowhere close in comparison to the collections people here have, but I'm enjoying the trip, and I think that's what matters most.

 

As for the frustration that newer/more casual collectors face, it certainly has a lot to do with the economic aspect. I've definitely accepted that there are some pieces that I will just never be able to own, and I'm okay with that. The frustration, however, sets in when pieces are bought by dealers at auction and then the price doubled as soon as they can get it up on their website.

 

Here's a perfect example (using one of the artists I collect, so it has an especially harsh sting):

 

http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsearch_adv_art.asp%3Fall%3Dy%26CATEGORIES%3D-1%26Artist1%3Deric%2Bpowell%26Artist2%3D%26Title%3D%26ISSUE%3D%26PAGE%3D%26YEAR%3D%26PRICEF%3D%26PRICET%3D%26SORT%3DCATEG%26_where_forsale%3Dy%26_where_auctions%3Dy%26x%3D28%26y%3D2%26where_forsale%3Dy&id=816347

 

http://www.romitaman.com/Featured.asp?Piece=6713

[Bronty]

I know what you are saying but hey you can just outbid the dealer at the auction right? ultimately at least you have a second chance at it this way; the other alternative that it be bought by a longtime collector and not see the light of day for 20 yrs doesn't do you any good either. I would say just don't buy from the dealer if you feel the price is inflated. There's so much art out there.... if you don't want to be choosy there is always something priced reasonably available. If you decide to be choosy and think that you "have to have" this piece or that piece... that's where you can get taken advantage of

[Nexus]

Here's a perfect example (using one of the artists I collect, so it has an especially harsh sting):

 

http://www.comiclink.com/itemdetail.asp?back=%2Fsearch_adv_art.asp%3Fall%3Dy%26CATEGORIES%3D-1%26Artist1%3Deric%2Bpowell%26Artist2%3D%26Title%3D%26ISSUE%3D%26PAGE%3D%26YEAR%3D%26PRICEF%3D%26PRICET%3D%26SORT%3DCATEG%26_where_forsale%3Dy%26_where_auctions%3Dy%26x%3D28%26y%3D2%26where_forsale%3Dy&id=816347

 

http://www.romitaman.com/Featured.asp?Piece=6713

 

Heh...that happens all the time. I know collectors who will really go hard after something at auction, because they are worried if they miss out, their next chance to get it will be from a dealer for 2X. I've had collectors tell me "I'm going to get Cover A, because I don't want to see it on Dealer B's site later." I call it "The Romitaman Effect"

 

On the positive side, Mike is a very easy dealer to work with and is open to trades. So, if you have the right art, your cost may end up being less than the original auction price. However, the negative side is that the "sale" at that new value becomes a market data point.

 

All part of the hobby today. You might not like it, but if you're going to participate, you have to accept it. Just do your homework to lessen any real "stings".

[shiverbones]

I guess I should give an example of what I mean by a recent purchase.

 

I started reading comics in the early 80s. I arrived just in time to see the indy

book flourish. Naturally I bought almost every Marvel at the time but I was also

very intrigued by The Flaming Carrot, Reid Fleming Worlds Toughest Milkman, etc..

 

So with that said I decided to get some original art by David Boswell in a round about fashion.

Not a very popular artist but he has a small cult following who appreciates his

work. I knew I could afford it for a reasonable price and be happy with the

purchase. Reid Fleming was always a good funny read for me.

 

Even better is the fact I knew that Reid Fleming first appeared in the Georgia Strait

which was a newspaper in Canada. I would try to shoot for some of his earliest

work before the comic book even existed. I consider him being active before the

indy boom and an important part of comic book history for that time period. This is

approx 1978.

 

Imagine I first approached him to do an oil painting for me but he was never satisfied

by the results. In the end he decided I could buy some of his earliest art that he

has been hanging onto for multiple decades.

 

My wife has the digital camera in her purse at work so I just made a quick conversion

of the pdf page that David sent me to JPG when I was choosing what I wanted.

 

I have a feeling that most of the posters in this forum probably do not care for Reid.

I like it a lot though. For some reasons I enjoy strips a lot. I like the earliest work

of an artist I can get my hands on. I like the fact the price was low enough where

I do not even think about it. I like the fact I did not have to compete for it at auction

and bought it from the creator. I got to know the creator via email. After writing to

him dozens of times over the last two years I can even sense his own personality

mixed into the strips!

 

My point is I did not follow the crowd. I got something that makes me happy for

a price that I can brush off as a hobby and not an investment. I feel that I will hold

onto the pages I got for a long time. They are special to me.

 

If the original poster of this thread can find happiness in his budget range for material

that he wants.. get involved! But if you now that your budget does not allow for you

to purchase what you like.. take a step back and critically think about the situation.

Perhaps saving up for one really really nice page is the way to go and

call it a day. Original art never struck me as comparable as collecting comics unless

you have a daddy warbucks sized wallet.

 

It is a good way to collect art in my mind. So here it is. The last Reid strip posted

in the Georgia Strait. #22. With Reid's famous quote of that he gets his hair cut

that way!

 

 

 

TRULY amazing! Awesome strip & great work you ended up with!

[Child,pleeze-migration]

I think with CAF the visibility of comic art has been increased and the hobby gets a lot more casual collectors now. From what I've seen a lot of people think it's a natural progression going to OA from comics and they do it because they think it's the next step. I guess after a while they realize you have to be a little nutty to get fully immersed into the hobby and dedicate the time needed to get the harder to find pieces. Prices are a major issue as well. The hobby itself is a little harder for a casual collector with prices being so completely subjective unlike other hobbies where price guides can at least give you a clue. Doesn't surprise me so many casual collectors bail after feeling they've overpaid for something or being frustrated at not finding the type of stuff they wanted.

 

I'm getting the feeling Hari and I are both either bored at work or off today!

 

Hi, Ruben: I don't think we should limit the exodus to casual collectors because that's simply not the case. I know of several collectors that have gotten out or are in the process of getting out now that were quite passionate and involved in collecting OA.

 

Serious collectors have left. But for the most part they take their art with them. In other words, they keep the cream and sell off the crop. Those collectors always have a chance of coming back into the hobby, and they know it.

 

I haven't collected OA for very long, but I was really passionate about it over the last two years. I plan to leave the hobby in the near future and I do plan "to sell off the crops". I admit that I will have a hard time staying completely away. I'm not walking away because I can't afford original art or have frustration in getting the art I want. In fact, I'm very satisfied with what I already own and I spent a fortune to acquire most over the last year. All of the unattainable 5-figure artworks are well before my time and I have very little interest in them at those prices. I'm leaving because the addiction is out of control. If something has control over you, such as nicotine, acid, or World of Warcraft, then you have a problem.

 

Collecting comic art is a thrill like no other hobby. Each collection is unique and each has a piece to impress everybody else. But the financial side is a major drawback of art collecting. Unless you have an enormous amounts of disposable income, an art addiction will interfere with your other desires. If I was rich, I could enjoy collecting art along with the other finer things in life. If I collected toys or comics, I would have plenty of leftover money to indulge myself. But when you start collecting art, you will make sacrifices. You give up nice cars, houses, and overseas vacations. You may even give up concerts or extravagant dinners with your significant other to save up art money. For those of you with children, I don't know how you afford adding new pieces. Choosing between acquiring new art or putting a down-payment on new home shouldn't be hard choice, but it is for some of us. If someone asks me later what I have to show for my accrued income over the last few years, I'd like to show more than an Itoya portfolio. I love art like everybody else here, but it became an inhibitor as much as a joy.

[comicartfan]

There are more people entering AND leaving the hobby these days. In the past, it was mainly folks entering the hobby. With the prices of OA these days, there will undoubtedly be people frustrated that they can't get the art they want at the price they want, and they will ultimately leave the hobby. Whether they will take a last minute pot-shot at the hobby and call it greedy, price-manipulation, etc. depends on the individual, but I see more of that happening as well.

 

The hobby is greedy.......But at the same time, so are comics, fine wines, antiques, sports collectibles and just about anything else that has value....Whatever that value might be. -

 

Anytime you take an inimate object and place a "price" or "value" on it, and there is a market for it, you're going to have greed...you're going to have a select few who are going to manipulate the market, defraud it and take advantage of others. It's up to the collector to educate themselves, as has been said by others.

 

I am one of those that has decided that I have reached a point in my OA collecting that my priorities lay else where. I LOVE the hobby, but buying pieces for 4 figures, that sit in a portfolio, trying to "network", finding where this or that piece resides (usually with little luck) and trying to come up with a price after being told "make an offer"....It wasn't fun. It was stressful and never really gave me satisfaction or pleasure. Sure, I could buy pieces that were readily available, but it's mostly new modern stuff with little known or less popular artists. Being a child of the 70s, I was a Batman (thanks in most part to Adam West and the Super Friends cartoon) fan....I was able to score some of these pieces, but as time went on, this became harder, more expensive and less enjoyable.

 

Like most OA collectors, I had my honeymoon stage, where I was picking up some terrific pieces and I really did enjoy myself for a period of time......We all know that it never lasts.

 

I make a great living and yet, I find myself limited with "play money"...so with ever escalating prices (driven by greed), availability of pieces I desire and the uber secret society of collectors have all played major roles in me getting out.

 

It's not about taking "pot shots" at the hobby or it's participants. We all go into the hobby by our own free will, so if someone bad mouths the hobby, that should be directed at themselves.

 

Having said that, I have gotten back into comics. I am having a blast !!. I feel like a newbie again, with that excitement and feeling of FUN ! - I know that if a book passes me by, I won't be totally without. Another will come along, where's art has this hysteria of "Oh, if I don't get that home equity loan and buy this cover, I will lose it forever"......I find myself being able to have "a copy" of a particular book, whether it's a 5.0 or a 9.6...what I can afford without having to sell other books to get...I like that I don't have to make Sophie's Choice, unlike with OA....

 

Morale of the story : A hobby is supposed to be fun...if it's not, what's the point ?!

[heartened]

There are more people entering AND leaving the hobby these days. In the past, it was mainly folks entering the hobby. With the prices of OA these days, there will undoubtedly be people frustrated that they can't get the art they want at the price they want, and they will ultimately leave the hobby. Whether they will take a last minute pot-shot at the hobby and call it greedy, price-manipulation, etc. depends on the individual, but I see more of that happening as well.

 

The hobby is greedy.......But at the same time, so are comics, fine wines, antiques, sports collectibles and just about anything else that has value....Whatever that value might be. -

 

Anytime you take an inimate object and place a "price" or "value" on it, and there is a market for it, you're going to have greed...you're going to have a select few who are going to manipulate the market, defraud it and take advantage of others. It's up to the collector to educate themselves, as has been said by others.

 

I am one of those that has decided that I have reached a point in my OA collecting that my priorities lay else where. I LOVE the hobby, but buying pieces for 4 figures, that sit in a portfolio, trying to "network", finding where this or that piece resides (usually with little luck) and trying to come up with a price after being told "make an offer"....It wasn't fun. It was stressful and never really gave me satisfaction or pleasure. Sure, I could buy pieces that were readily available, but it's mostly new modern stuff with little known or less popular artists. Being a child of the 70s, I was a Batman (thanks in most part to Adam West and the Super Friends cartoon) fan....I was able to score some of these pieces, but as time went on, this became harder, more expensive and less enjoyable.

 

Like most OA collectors, I had my honeymoon stage, where I was picking up some terrific pieces and I really did enjoy myself for a period of time......We all know that it never lasts.

 

I make a great living and yet, I find myself limited with "play money"...so with ever escalating prices (driven by greed), availability of pieces I desire and the uber secret society of collectors have all played major roles in me getting out.

 

It's not about taking "pot shots" at the hobby or it's participants. We all go into the hobby by our own free will, so if someone bad mouths the hobby, that should be directed at themselves.

 

Having said that, I have gotten back into comics. I am having a blast !!. I feel like a newbie again, with that excitement and feeling of FUN ! - I know that if a book passes me by, I won't be totally without. Another will come along, where's art has this hysteria of "Oh, if I don't get that home equity loan and buy this cover, I will lose it forever"......I find myself being able to have "a copy" of a particular book, whether it's a 5.0 or a 9.6...what I can afford without having to sell other books to get...I like that I don't have to make Sophie's Choice, unlike with OA....

 

Morale of the story : A hobby is supposed to be fun...if it's not, what's the point ?!

 

Love your last statement! One of the best ways is to build our community. I know in NY a few of us make it a point to get together every month or two over lunch or breakfast, not to show art but just to hang out. That makes a world of difference. I've found you don't actually have to buy art routinely to have fun in the hobby, as long as you have a nice circle of friends with whom you can share experiences, memories, and OA finds.

 

[Freeeeze-migration]

I guess if I had to add my 2 cents it won't be any different than what others are saying. If you enjoy it, then do it. There are some amazing artists out there. (besides the hot and over-priced) I've only been collecting for about 7 or so years. Prices have sky-rocketed since then!!! I've been very lucky with some of the pieces that I've obtained plus saved for others. Patience is HUGE!! If at first you don't succeed... Check out CAF and other venues for up-and-coming artists and find someone's work that speaks to you. Your money will go further. Enjoy it. It's suppose to be fun.

[arzach42]

Another place to meet fellow OA collectors, dealers, and artists is the Comic Art Con in Secaucus, NJ. It happens every 3 or 4 months.

 

For more info http://www.comicartshowcase.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=119&Itemid=1

 

I am not connected to the show at all, just an attendee.

[artdealer]

Back in the mid to late 70's, collectors were more apt to bring their collections to show, especially the NY shows in the Summer and Fall. Being one of the few who was there at the beginning, I can say there was very little, if any back-biting, name calling, or any of the other that goes on today.

I was one of the bigger collection back then. My collection could have bought a house in the mid 6 figures today. However as time went on, as certain characters got in the "hobby", it made it less fun, for me, to be a collector. So, by 1981, I had dumped my collection, and made art dealing a full time business. I never had second thoughts about collecting, especially seeing how certain "dealers" treat people who want to spend money.

I have to say, that even though I sell expensive art, I would never pay the price.

Some people actually have, what I think, is a disease. They buy the art, receive it, and then sell it at a loss. Compulsive/obsessive? Thrill of the hunt? Take some meds.

Though once I sell the art, what you do with it is your business. I just sit back and shake my head. I've seen it with a lot of people, some on this list.

Now I do collect, mostly illustration, Pixar and Disney artists drawings and what ever looks good to me.

I NEVER collected for nostalgia reasons, which is what most people do today. After sitting down and reading a lot of the DC/Marvel reprints, I find most of it horrendous to read, and the art, with A FEW EXCEPTIONS, just as bad.

But hey, I'm a curmudgeon.

Mitch I.

[bocaratondefense]

Wow, this thread does not paint a flattering picture of the comic art hobby at all. I appreciate the different perspectives though, so thanks everyone, for calling it as they see it.

 

 

 

 

[DStorm]

I have only been in this hobby for a year and a half but I am astounded at the prices. I make a decent living at $100k per year (supposedly more than 80% of the country) and I can't afford to buy even one "grail"! All these dealers charging the same prices, I don't know how they all stay in business?? Maybe they make all their money off a couple "huge" sales from people with crazy money and that's all they need? I think a small group with that amount of "limitless" funds to spend is making it difficult for anyone to get in or stay in this hobby. How long can it go on?? They would sell so much more stuff if they lowered their prices down to the average collector, but it doesn't seem like they cater to the average collector anymore. Even though I haven't been collecting long, I've been watching for years and some of these dealers have had pieces for years. Not just a few pieces, but A LOT of pieces, sitting at the same prices. Something's got to give.

 

Lucky for me, the stuff I collect is not mainstream so it hasn't cost me a fortune to get what I want. Shadowman, X-O Manowar, Dark Dominion, The Tick, The Ray, The Rocketeer ... nothing that's going to really break the bank (though Dave Stevens stuff is climbing).

 

Personally I get more enjoyment out of illustration and pulp art. It displays nicer IMO and though also expensive, I make 1-2 big purchases a year and I'm fine with it because I don't have enough wall space for more! Comic book art you can store away in a portfolio. Illustration art, not as easy.

 

Have room to hang it or don't buy it, that's my motto. It cracks me up when I see collectors with portfolios filled to the brim with art and it never gets opened to enjoy. It's all the thrill of the hunt as Mitch said. Put it in a portfolio, forget about it and move on to the next hunt. What a waste!

 

My favorite dealers are the ones who never seem to sell anything, having art for years without moving it, and have INQUIRE on every piece they own. I don't even bother anymore. Not only is the art over-priced compared to other dealers, it's a annoying to have to email everytime I'm interested in something. Then my other favorite is the dealers who buy stuff at Heritage and then put it up on their site at 2-3 times what they paid. Hey dude, we all know about Heritage. If I didn't want to pay X amount in auction, why am I now going to pay 2-3 times that amount from your site??? Helloooooooooo

 

So I say .... stay out of the hobby! Get into something you can enjoy more that isn't going to break your heart or your bank