Should I get back into OA?

[artdealer]

The market is not driven on the more expensive art, but rather the mid range material

And, the illustration market, these days, is driven by Heritage. That is until the Martignette collection runs out.

What I think is nuts is the incestuous nature of art going from 1 dealer to another, all the time, the price increases and STILL doesn't get sold. Don't want to name names, but 99% of you know who they are. They must think the collectors are stupid. That's how most of the dealers think of the collectors.

Mitch I.

[DStorm]

Mitch what is mid-range? $2K-$5K ? I mean at my salary, I can't afford to buy a $5K piece. OK well technically I could, but I just can't justify spending that on one piece based on what I make. If 20% of the country makes more than me, how many of those are original comic art collectors?? Less than 5% I'm sure. so basically less than 5% is sustaining all these dealers?? I dunno.

 

My limits right now are around $800 for 1 piece of comic book art and up to $2,000 for a piece of illustration art.

 

You're right about Heritage though. They are the market. Pieces in Heritage go sky high. Sell the same piece on EBAY and you'll get half. I do most of my buying off EBAY these days because there are still bargains to be had. You know the ones you mentioned, buy at X price off Heritage, sell on EBAY 6 months later for a loss

 

 

[artdealer]

Mid-range, now is $750-$3000

 

Illustration should NEVER be put on Ebay. Too many bottom feeders who contact you and make stupid offers, even when the art is priced low.

 

I put a number of Romance covers on Ebay at $150 and I still had insufficiently_thoughtful_persons asking me if I would sell them for $75.00.

 

Though I have bought illustration, for resale at good prices, not recently.

 

Illustration is still a good value, though many comic collectors won't buy it cause they don't understand it or there is no nostalgia value for them.

 

Mitch I.

 

 

[SuperBird]

I enjoy collecting, but mostly like to buy the cheap stuff, so I'm not affected at all by the insider nastiness that seems to go on. Collecting a bunch of art (I hate the term "piece". It's production art, nothing more) that I like just for the sake of it, in the $20-200 range, makes me happy and my bank account as well. Plus I don't have to worry about "where the market is going", because I just don't have any money "invested" in art. I just have some artwork that I enjoy, with no intention or worries of selling any of it, ever.

 

but back to the question at hand. I think if you have to ask the question at all, then no, you should not get back into OA.

[artdealer]

And ultimately, that's what it's all about.

 

1. Collect what you like

2. Maintain a level head when buying an expensive piece of art. If you think it's overpriced, there are plenty of reference for similar pieces.

3. Make sure you are treated with respect when working with a dealer/rep.

4. See number 1

 

Mitch I.

[3319comics]

I know this might not fit with this topic but is this whats driving collectors to have commissions done by thier favorite artists or recreations of pieces? They might not get the exact page used for the comic but still a one of a kind from the artist ?

[SuperBird]

yup, basically. If you can't afford the original. Or if you just want a 1-of-a-kind made just for you.

[Action7-migration]

I have only been in this hobby for a year and a half but I am astounded at the prices. I make a decent living at $100k per year (supposedly more than 80% of the country) and I can't afford to buy even one "grail"! All these dealers charging the same prices, I don't know how they all stay in business?? Maybe they make all their money off a couple "huge" sales from people with crazy money and that's all they need? I think a small group with that amount of "limitless" funds to spend is making it difficult for anyone to get in or stay in this hobby. How long can it go on?? They would sell so much more stuff if they lowered their prices down to the average collector, but it doesn't seem like they cater to the average collector anymore. Even though I haven't been collecting long, I've been watching for years and some of these dealers have had pieces for years. Not just a few pieces, but A LOT of pieces, sitting at the same prices. Something's got to give.

 

Lucky for me, the stuff I collect is not mainstream so it hasn't cost me a fortune to get what I want. Shadowman, X-O Manowar, Dark Dominion, The Tick, The Ray, The Rocketeer ... nothing that's going to really break the bank (though Dave Stevens stuff is climbing).

 

Personally I get more enjoyment out of illustration and pulp art. It displays nicer IMO and though also expensive, I make 1-2 big purchases a year and I'm fine with it because I don't have enough wall space for more! Comic book art you can store away in a portfolio. Illustration art, not as easy.

 

Have room to hang it or don't buy it, that's my motto. It cracks me up when I see collectors with portfolios filled to the brim with art and it never gets opened to enjoy. It's all the thrill of the hunt as Mitch said. Put it in a portfolio, forget about it and move on to the next hunt. What a waste!

 

My favorite dealers are the ones who never seem to sell anything, having art for years without moving it, and have INQUIRE on every piece they own. I don't even bother anymore. Not only is the art over-priced compared to other dealers, it's a annoying to have to email everytime I'm interested in something. Then my other favorite is the dealers who buy stuff at Heritage and then put it up on their site at 2-3 times what they paid. Hey dude, we all know about Heritage. If I didn't want to pay X amount in auction, why am I now going to pay 2-3 times that amount from your site??? Helloooooooooo

 

So I say .... stay out of the hobby! Get into something you can enjoy more that isn't going to break your heart or your bank

 

celebrities and music artists, deep pockets.

[micmack]

The market is not driven on the more expensive art, but rather the mid range material

And, the illustration market, these days, is driven by Heritage. That is until the Martignette collection runs out.

 

Mitch, I am curious as to your statement above about Heritage driving the illustration market. I tend to agree with you about this but what does the Martignette collection have in this factor? Do you mean when they run out, the prices will go back to market value? I agree the prices for items in the collection are on the higher end, but do you agree or disagree that the items in the collection are somewhat better than what is normally put up for auction in a given time span?

 

Thanks

[theloveforart]

Wow, i can't believe how carried away this thread has gotten, everyone is chiming away at how bad the hobby and everyone else is, and how someone that makes $100,000.00 a year can't afford to buy a $3000.00 piece of comic book art, that i actually find funny... so after spending the full $2800 for your art collection for the year you must feel pretty broke with the rest of the $97,200.00... Man life can be rough. Personally i love the hobby, yes you are going to encounter losers in the hobby but you will encounter losers through out everything else in life as well. I say spend what you can afford and ENJOY it.

cheers

Raul Novo

[batman_fan]

I have to say, I have been buying OA for more than 15 years, but only in the last 7 have I started to pay higher prices. Previously I only picked up stuff in the $20 to $30 range. I love the stuff I have picked up and I am quite happy with it. Last year was my biggest in terms of spending on the hobby. This year I expect to spend considerable less. Mostly for reasons other have brought up in this thread, i.e other things in life are much more important (remodeling our home). The other reason is everything I want is $2k+ for the most part and it is hard to continually spend that much on stuff when I think about out remodel and what I can buy for that kind of money for the house. I plan to continue actively looking for stuff on my want list and will buy those pieces, but other than those, I plan to be pretty low key, especially since I already picked up one expensive page.

 

I agree with some posters that there is a lot of greed in the hobby, but I know I have sold stuff I bought several years back for anywhere between 3x and 10x what I paid. Several have ended up on CLINK auction and gone for 1/2 what I sold them for I guess at some level I am guilty as well, but I justify it to myself by saying I want to get the most I can out of the stuff and not leave money on the table.

[irchooker]

Wow, i can't believe how carried away this thread has gotten, everyone is chiming away at how bad the hobby and everyone else is, and how someone that makes $100,000.00 a year can't afford to buy a $3000.00 piece of comic book art, that i actually find funny... so after spending the full $2800 for your art collection for the year you must feel pretty broke with the rest of the $97,200.00... Man life can be rough. Personally i love the hobby, yes you are going to encounter losers in the hobby but you will encounter losers through out everything else in life as well. I say spend what you can afford and ENJOY it.

cheers

Raul Novo

 

Raul!!! When are you going to be bringing up that art from Texas?

 

Robert

[DStorm]

Wow, i can't believe how carried away this thread has gotten, everyone is chiming away at how bad the hobby and everyone else is, and how someone that makes $100,000.00 a year can't afford to buy a $3000.00 piece of comic book art, that i actually find funny... so after spending the full $2800 for your art collection for the year you must feel pretty broke with the rest of the $97,200.00... Man life can be rough. Personally i love the hobby, yes you are going to encounter losers in the hobby but you will encounter losers through out everything else in life as well. I say spend what you can afford and ENJOY it.

cheers

Raul Novo

 

First of all, I don't know what country you live in but here in America they take about 33% or so in taxes so that only leaves me $67K ... factor in the fact that I live in L.A. where everything is ridiculously over-priced and add in a pricey house payment & car payment, then yes spending that much does make you think twice. $100K in L.A. isn't jack schizzle

[adamstrange]

There are more people entering AND leaving the hobby these days. In the past, it was mainly folks entering the hobby. With the prices of OA these days, there will undoubtedly be people frustrated that they can't get the art they want at the price they want, and they will ultimately leave the hobby. Whether they will take a last minute pot-shot at the hobby and call it greedy, price-manipulation, etc. depends on the individual, but I see more of that happening as well.

 

The hobby is greedy.......But at the same time, so are comics, fine wines, antiques, sports collectibles and just about anything else that has value....Whatever that value might be. -

 

Anytime you take an inimate object and place a "price" or "value" on it, and there is a market for it, you're going to have greed...you're going to have a select few who are going to manipulate the market, defraud it and take advantage of others. It's up to the collector to educate themselves, as has been said by others.

 

I am one of those that has decided that I have reached a point in my OA collecting that my priorities lay else where. I LOVE the hobby, but buying pieces for 4 figures, that sit in a portfolio, trying to "network", finding where this or that piece resides (usually with little luck) and trying to come up with a price after being told "make an offer"....It wasn't fun. It was stressful and never really gave me satisfaction or pleasure. Sure, I could buy pieces that were readily available, but it's mostly new modern stuff with little known or less popular artists. Being a child of the 70s, I was a Batman (thanks in most part to Adam West and the Super Friends cartoon) fan....I was able to score some of these pieces, but as time went on, this became harder, more expensive and less enjoyable.

 

Like most OA collectors, I had my honeymoon stage, where I was picking up some terrific pieces and I really did enjoy myself for a period of time......We all know that it never lasts.

 

I make a great living and yet, I find myself limited with "play money"...so with ever escalating prices (driven by greed), availability of pieces I desire and the uber secret society of collectors have all played major roles in me getting out.

 

It's not about taking "pot shots" at the hobby or it's participants. We all go into the hobby by our own free will, so if someone bad mouths the hobby, that should be directed at themselves.

 

Having said that, I have gotten back into comics. I am having a blast !!. I feel like a newbie again, with that excitement and feeling of FUN ! - I know that if a book passes me by, I won't be totally without. Another will come along, where's art has this hysteria of "Oh, if I don't get that home equity loan and buy this cover, I will lose it forever"......I find myself being able to have "a copy" of a particular book, whether it's a 5.0 or a 9.6...what I can afford without having to sell other books to get...I like that I don't have to make Sophie's Choice, unlike with OA....

 

Morale of the story : A hobby is supposed to be fun...if it's not, what's the point ?!

 

Love your last statement! One of the best ways is to build our community. I know in NY a few of us make it a point to get together every month or two over lunch or breakfast, not to show art but just to hang out. That makes a world of difference. I've found you don't actually have to buy art routinely to have fun in the hobby, as long as you have a nice circle of friends with whom you can share experiences, memories, and OA finds.

I have a number of good friends who happen to collect comics and art and that's been a significant reason why I'm still in the hobby.

[comix4fun]

My personal relationships in this hobby, with other collectors as well as artists and other creators are the main reason I am still the hobby.

 

There is the thrill of finding the perfect example by an artist that whose work I truly admire and respect. Those moments come rarely these days as I have found several pieces by artists whom I respect and can afford. There aren't many more I am actively searching for right now.

 

That thrill cannot be outweighed by the relationships I mentioned. All those lunches and dinners during conventions, all those phone conversations sharing experiences, and all those happenstance meetings when one of us in in the other's home town for a meeting or conference. They are all great memories.

 

As for the professionals in the business that I call friends, it's the same story. I have been commissioning artists for years. To collaborate, to create something new from a blank slate with their talent and my ideas is an amazing feeling. Sure there are plenty of folks out there that would take advantage of you, but I have made some of my best friends in this hobby and you can't put a price tag on that.

 

Best,

Chris

[SuperBird]

how someone that makes $100,000.00 a year can't afford to buy a $3000.00 piece of comic book art, that i actually find funny... so after spending the full $2800 for your art collection for the year you must feel pretty broke with the rest of the $97,200.00... Man life can be rough.

Raul Novo

 

Yeah, I guess if you live in a small town in Wisconsin, without a family to provide for, a mortgage to pay, or a retirement to save for, you can go nuts...?

[AtlasFan]

how someone that makes $100,000.00 a year can't afford to buy a $3000.00 piece of comic book art, that i actually find funny... so after spending the full $2800 for your art collection for the year you must feel pretty broke with the rest of the $97,200.00... Man life can be rough.

Raul Novo

 

Yeah, I guess if you live in a small town in Wisconsin, without a family to provide for, a mortgage to pay, or a retirement to save for, you can go nuts...?

 

For those of us who pay them, dont forget those TAXES...there goes 1/2 of your disposable income right there! Then there are other little frills to pay for like food, clothes, utilities, transportation...someone needs a lesson in home economics!

[jjonahjameson1]

how someone that makes $100,000.00 a year can't afford to buy a $3000.00 piece of comic book art, that i actually find funny... so after spending the full $2800 for your art collection for the year you must feel pretty broke with the rest of the $97,200.00... Man life can be rough.

Raul Novo

 

Yeah, I guess if you live in a small town in Wisconsin, without a family to provide for, a mortgage to pay, or a retirement to save for, you can go nuts...?

 

For those of us who pay them, dont forget those TAXES...there goes 1/2 of your disposable income right there! Then there are other little frills to pay for like food, clothes, utilities, transportation...someone needs a lesson in home economics!

 

Really? Even after you pay taxes and essentials noted in your email, I don't think $3K for a piece of art is an exorbitant expense, given the amount of disposible money that still remain. If you have competing hobbies or interests or choose to spend your entertainment dollars on non-comics art, then that's a different matter entirely.

[SuperBird]

 

Really? Even after you pay taxes and essentials noted in your email, I don't think $3K for a piece of art is an exorbitant expense, given the amount of disposible money that still remain. If you have competing hobbies or interests or choose to spend your entertainment dollars on non-comics art, then that's a different matter entirely.

 

maybe people have "competing hobbies or interests" like a mortgage, kids, food, clothes, health care. Maybe if you live alone in your mom's basement, that $100k goes far. In a major US city, that's not enough to even get a place to live.

[theloveforart]

OK here we go, now i know why your country ( the great old USA) is falling apart.... I live in the top 5 most expensive city in north america. In Toronto Canada we have taxes on par to your most expensive cities you have in the states. I also have a house valued at $600,000.00 in downtown Toronto that i pay a mortgage, i have car payments ( a honda 97 CRV because i do not care for a expensive car), i pay utilities and insurance and i eat out at restaurants and usually travel to europe in the summer. Yet i can still manage to save money and allocate money to comic art ($5000- $10,000) because i love it, Here is the part i find amusing i make 3/4 of your $100,000.00. Hmmmmm, i wonder who should be taking economics eh AtlasFan. Unless you people that are chiming in are the ones that brought down your country with those mental mortgages there is no reason why you can't spend more that $3000.00 for comic art if you make $100,000.00 even after taxes....