How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[Flaming_Telepath]

If someone can convincingly explain how a press nullifies the value/history/significance of a Mile High that jumped a quarter grade, I'll happily rescind my statement. Since no one can, other then through the use of strawman arguments and faulty comparisons, I guess they'll just have to stand.

 

For some reason, you are equating grade with what makes a Mile High unique. A 6.5 Mile high is just as special as a 9.2. And even after a press, the book will retain its gloss, reflectivity, white pages, unique history, and special place in this hobby. Nothing significant has changed.

 

Yes it has. One of the main attractions of any Pedigree upon discovery is that the books have survived a substantial length of time, sometimes in adverse conditions, in such a high state of preservation. That's the 'wow' factor, the 'can you believe it' moment. To then manipulate those books into a different state takes this factor away at least.

 

Whilst it doesn't nullify the appeal of the pedigree, to some, it's sufficient to devalue it, and that, to my mind, represents a 'significant' change.

 

And we come back full circle Nick; then don't buy it.

 

You weren't talking about whether I should buy it or not.

 

You were talking about whether it had been 'changed'.

 

I put forward an argument that was neither a 'strawman' nor faulty to suggest it had.

 

Your response was...unconnected.

[Paratrooper]

Sweet, "Red Dawn" is on G4.

[NewWorldOrder]

If someone can convincingly explain how a press nullifies the value/history/significance of a Mile High that jumped a quarter grade, I'll happily rescind my statement. Since no one can, other then through the use of strawman arguments and faulty comparisons, I guess they'll just have to stand.

 

For some reason, you are equating grade with what makes a Mile High unique. A 6.5 Mile high is just as special as a 9.2. And even after a press, the book will retain its gloss, reflectivity, white pages, unique history, and special place in this hobby. Nothing significant has changed.

 

Yes it has. One of the main attractions of any Pedigree upon discovery is that the books have survived a substantial length of time, sometimes in adverse conditions, in such a high state of preservation. That's the 'wow' factor, the 'can you believe it' moment. To then manipulate those books into a different state takes this factor away at least.

 

Whilst it doesn't nullify the appeal of the pedigree, to some, it's sufficient to devalue it, and that, to my mind, represents a 'significant' change.

 

And we come back full circle Nick; then don't buy it.

 

You weren't talking about whether I should buy it or not.

 

You were talking about whether it had been 'changed'.

 

I put forward an argument that was neither a 'strawman' nor faulty to suggest it had.

 

Your response was...unconnected.

 

Nick,

 

The other day I was taking a modern book out of the bag/board and the piece of tape got caught on the front cover of the comic.

 

So now their is a piece of tape on the book.

 

For 10 minutes I gently pulled the tape off the book. The tape came off without any damage to the book what so ever.

 

I "restored" the book to its original state.

 

Should CGC give it a PLOD Label? (this post is serious)

[8milemax]

Sweet, "Red Dawn" is on G4.

 

 

Good movie

[scottish]

So......what have we learned?

 

1. The same people that disliked pressing before still do.

2. The same people that liked pressing before still do.

3. There are good guys on both sides that have different and valid opinions on the subject.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

[Paratrooper]

Sweet, "Red Dawn" is on G4.

 

 

Good movie

 

The family right now is scrounging for supplies and heading up to the mountain. If they are taking survival supplies, why did they load up on cases of soda?

[seanfingh]

If someone can convincingly explain how a press nullifies the value/history/significance of a Mile High that jumped a quarter grade, I'll happily rescind my statement. Since no one can, other then through the use of strawman arguments and faulty comparisons, I guess they'll just have to stand.

 

For some reason, you are equating grade with what makes a Mile High unique. A 6.5 Mile high is just as special as a 9.2. And even after a press, the book will retain its gloss, reflectivity, white pages, unique history, and special place in this hobby. Nothing significant has changed.

 

Yes it has. One of the main attractions of any Pedigree upon discovery is that the books have survived a substantial length of time, sometimes in adverse conditions, in such a high state of preservation. That's the 'wow' factor, the 'can you believe it' moment. To then manipulate those books into a different state takes this factor away at least.

 

Whilst it doesn't nullify the appeal of the pedigree, to some, it's sufficient to devalue it, and that, to my mind, represents a 'significant' change.

 

And we come back full circle Nick; then don't buy it.

 

You weren't talking about whether I should buy it or not.

 

You were talking about whether it had been 'changed'.

 

I put forward an argument that was neither a 'strawman' nor faulty to suggest it had.

 

Your response was...unconnected.

 

Nick,

 

The other day I was taking a modern book out of the bag/board and the piece of tape got caught on the front cover of the comic.

 

So now their is a piece of tape on the book.

 

For 10 minutes I gently pulled the tape off the book. The tape came off without any damage to the book what so ever.

 

I "restored" the book to its original state.

 

Should CGC give it a PLOD Label? (this post is serious)

 

You are entering booger-flicker town.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

If someone can convincingly explain how a press nullifies the value/history/significance of a Mile High that jumped a quarter grade, I'll happily rescind my statement. Since no one can, other then through the use of strawman arguments and faulty comparisons, I guess they'll just have to stand.

 

For some reason, you are equating grade with what makes a Mile High unique. A 6.5 Mile high is just as special as a 9.2. And even after a press, the book will retain its gloss, reflectivity, white pages, unique history, and special place in this hobby. Nothing significant has changed.

 

Yes it has. One of the main attractions of any Pedigree upon discovery is that the books have survived a substantial length of time, sometimes in adverse conditions, in such a high state of preservation. That's the 'wow' factor, the 'can you believe it' moment. To then manipulate those books into a different state takes this factor away at least.

 

Whilst it doesn't nullify the appeal of the pedigree, to some, it's sufficient to devalue it, and that, to my mind, represents a 'significant' change.

 

And we come back full circle Nick; then don't buy it.

 

You weren't talking about whether I should buy it or not.

 

You were talking about whether it had been 'changed'.

 

I put forward an argument that was neither a 'strawman' nor faulty to suggest it had.

 

Your response was...unconnected.

 

No, its the next logical step in the argument. If a simple press does significantly change the nature of the book to you, then don't buy it. The whole "don't buy it if you don't like it" argument is at the root of this. Always has been.

 

You just fail to accept that is your only option in the current marketplace. I understand you don't like it. I understand it upsets you. I understand it dampens your enthusiasm for a hobby you love. But in the end, none of that really is going to change anything.

 

The only thing that's going to mean anything is if the economics of the market finally dictate the practice come to a close. As a member of the Anti-Pressing group, you just have to hope there are enough "untouched" books out there left when/if that ever happens.

 

Of course, the new cottage industry at that point will be to de-slab books and give them a corner bend or two to make them appear virgin, then sell them at hefty mark-ups in pretty Mylars to those people who are willing to accept that they are indeed unmolested.

 

So, in reality, you're screwed. Sorry Nick.

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

So, in reality, you're screwed.

 

 

[500Club]

So......what have we learned?

 

1. The same people that disliked pressing before still do.

2. The same people that liked pressing before still do.

3. There are good guys on both sides that have different and valid opinions on the subject.

 

Yep. But there have been some very well thought out posts in this thread from each side. (thumbs u

 

I just don't think a common ground is attainable.

[szelim]

So......what have we learned?

 

1. The same people that disliked pressing before still do.

2. The same people that liked pressing before still do.

3. There are good guys on both sides that have different and valid opinions on the subject.

And that the present leader of NOD presses books.

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

So......what have we learned?

 

1. The same people that disliked pressing before still do.

2. The same people that liked pressing before still do.

3. There are good guys on both sides that have different and valid opinions on the subject.

And that the present leader of NOD presses books.

 

Which brings us right back to the beginning of this thread.

 

Where's Brent? I'd like hear his side of this. I want to know what he's doing to prevent the books he presses from being sold without disclosure. Do his customers have to sign some kind of disclosure agreement or something?

 

 

Brent?

[MrBedrock]

With pressing, you are eating into my supply of books and there is no restock. You are making decisions that limit my choices.

 

This seems to be the quote of the day.

 

It is faulty.

 

Would it be any different if I, as a high grade collector, said that every time one of you READS a comic (and presumably dings it in the process) you take away from what could potentially be mine.

(I kinda also have a problem with the idea that someone could presume potential ownership of every comic on the planet, but that's a another topic for another day)

[whisp]

With pressing, you are eating into my supply of books and there is no restock. You are making decisions that limit my choices.

 

This seems to be the quote of the day.

 

It is faulty.

 

Would it be any different if I, as a high grade collector, said that every time one of you READS a comic (and presumably dings it in the process) you take away from what could potentially be mine.

(I kinda also have a problem with the idea that someone could presume potential ownership of every comic on the planet, but that's a another topic for another day)

 

Comics are meant to be read though, not pressed.

[buttock]

I collect comics because I like them, but a huge part of my enjoyment is being able to share their fine points with others. None of us is collecting in a vacuum.

 

+1

 

+1

 

buttock shared his finer points with me in a Baltimore hotel room and I've never been the same since.

 

 

Really. Spending absurd amounts of money on decaying, old paper goods that 99% of the population deems worthless, and that sit in a box in our closets seen by few if anyone else doesn't seem at all greedy?

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't think there is anything wrong with it. I would rather just call a spade a spade and leave the "greedy presser" comments out of it. From where I am sitting, collecting seems pretty self serving, but your mileage may vary.

 

Andy, this is just extreme reductionism. You can make literally ANYTHING greedy if you use this "logic". You've expanded the definition of "greed" beyond what it really means to try and make a point.

 

Altruistic behavior is nothing more than satisfying a personal need to feel like you're contributing. That's "greedy" by this thinking.

 

Merely living is "greedy" because you're utilizing resources that other, more worthy people could be using.

 

However, none of that is "greedy" because true "greed" implies an excessive, unnecessary, wanton extreme of the spectrum of gathering. Most of us aren't collecting in a greedy fashion, we're just collecting.

[NewWorldOrder]

If someone can convincingly explain how a press nullifies the value/history/significance of a Mile High that jumped a quarter grade, I'll happily rescind my statement. Since no one can, other then through the use of strawman arguments and faulty comparisons, I guess they'll just have to stand.

 

For some reason, you are equating grade with what makes a Mile High unique. A 6.5 Mile high is just as special as a 9.2. And even after a press, the book will retain its gloss, reflectivity, white pages, unique history, and special place in this hobby. Nothing significant has changed.

 

Yes it has. One of the main attractions of any Pedigree upon discovery is that the books have survived a substantial length of time, sometimes in adverse conditions, in such a high state of preservation. That's the 'wow' factor, the 'can you believe it' moment. To then manipulate those books into a different state takes this factor away at least.

 

Whilst it doesn't nullify the appeal of the pedigree, to some, it's sufficient to devalue it, and that, to my mind, represents a 'significant' change.

 

And we come back full circle Nick; then don't buy it.

 

You weren't talking about whether I should buy it or not.

 

You were talking about whether it had been 'changed'.

 

I put forward an argument that was neither a 'strawman' nor faulty to suggest it had.

 

Your response was...unconnected.

 

Nick,

 

The other day I was taking a modern book out of the bag/board and the piece of tape got caught on the front cover of the comic.

 

So now their is a piece of tape on the book.

 

For 10 minutes I gently pulled the tape off the book. The tape came off without any damage to the book what so ever.

 

I "restored" the book to its original state.

 

Should CGC give it a PLOD Label? (this post is serious)

 

You are entering booger-flicker town.

 

not really

[MrBedrock]

With pressing, you are eating into my supply of books and there is no restock. You are making decisions that limit my choices.

 

This seems to be the quote of the day.

 

It is faulty.

 

Would it be any different if I, as a high grade collector, said that every time one of you READS a comic (and presumably dings it in the process) you take away from what could potentially be mine.

(I kinda also have a problem with the idea that someone could presume potential ownership of every comic on the planet, but that's a another topic for another day)

 

Comics are meant to be read though, not pressed.

Comics are manufactured and sold to be what they are, comics.

The manufacture assumes they will be read. After they are read the presumption is that one of three things will happen...they will be passed on to another reader, they will be collected, or they will be destroyed.

Nowhere in the comic manual does it say that comics weren't meant to be pressed. Some folks just choose to, and some folks choose not to.

[THE_BEYONDER]

With pressing, you are eating into my supply of books and there is no restock. You are making decisions that limit my choices.

 

This seems to be the quote of the day.

 

It is faulty.

 

Would it be any different if I, as a high grade collector, said that every time one of you READS a comic (and presumably dings it in the process) you take away from what could potentially be mine.

(I kinda also have a problem with the idea that someone could presume potential ownership of every comic on the planet, but that's a another topic for another day)

 

Comics are meant to be read though, not pressed.

Comics are manufactured and sold to be what they are, comics.

The manufacture assumes they will be read. After they are read the presumption is that one of three things will happen...they will be passed on to another reader, they will be collected, or they will be destroyed.

Nowhere in the comic manual does it say that comics weren't meant to be pressed. Some folks just choose to, and some folks choose not to.

 

There's a comic manual?!?

 

 

me...

[DrWatson]

With pressing, you are eating into my supply of books and there is no restock. You are making decisions that limit my choices.

 

This seems to be the quote of the day.

 

It is faulty.

 

Would it be any different if I, as a high grade collector, said that every time one of you READS a comic (and presumably dings it in the process) you take away from what could potentially be mine.

(I kinda also have a problem with the idea that someone could presume potential ownership of every comic on the planet, but that's a another topic for another day)

 

Comics are meant to be read though, not pressed.

Comics are manufactured and sold to be what they are, comics.

The manufacture assumes they will be read. After they are read the presumption is that one of three things will happen...they will be passed on to another reader, they will be collected, or they will be destroyed.

Nowhere in the comic manual does it say that comics weren't meant to be pressed. Some folks just choose to, and some folks choose not to.

 

There's a comic manual?!?

 

 

me...

Don't let greggy hear you say that. There's not telling what he'll do once he's finished with Richard and his butt implants.

[THE_BEYONDER]