How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[sckao]

I think I'm always going to side with property rights. That's why I've raised the inflammatory capitalist vs. socialist points before. That & to be a clown.

 

I have a building on south Howard Avenue ~ SoHo ~ in Tampa. SoHo has that pretentious name because it is Tampa's restaurant row, home to all of the finest eateries in town such as Bern's Steakhouse.

 

My tenant has been there for a year & has been at war with the city over his BBQ joint. The smoke from the pit is wafting into the very high-end neighborhood of Hyde Park which Howard Avenue bisects.

 

I have spent some money in attorney's fees to help my tenant massage the city's zoning permits even though he is required to pay for such things himself under our lease agreement. I did this because once he establishes his BBQ joint I'm either going to raise his rent through the roof or terminate the lease & step right in with my own BBQ joint. I just raised his rent Jan 15th 33.33%. He didn't even wince.

 

It is my property. I wrote the lease. He signed it. The local home owners chose to buy homes adjacent to a wildly active commercial strip - pubs, clubs, restaurants, the works. I sympathize with them. But we are all adults in the world, operating at arm's length.

 

 

And you're proud of this? Did you disclose to your tenant what your scheming?

 

Yes to both & you better believe it, bigshot.

 

It is my property. I tried to make it clear to you how much it is worth. It is on the most desirable, the most trendy street in the area for restaurants. My tenant is one of the most savvy bar, restaurant & nightclub owners in town. At present, I am his sucker at the current rent. I get calls every day on the property. I could have doubled his rent.

 

I am damn proud of what I do with my property.

 

Lease agreements are contracts between men & their attorneys.

 

It wasn't clear until you edited your post. Your initial post made it seem like you were jacking up the rent just to be malicious... with the intent of driving out your tenant so you could open a competing property in the same place.

 

Probably not your intent.

 

 

[arexcrooke]

I think I'm always going to side with property rights. That's why I've raised the inflammatory capitalist vs. socialist points before. That & to be a clown.

 

I have a building on south Howard Avenue ~ SoHo ~ in Tampa. SoHo has that pretentious name because it is Tampa's restaurant row, home to all of the finest eateries in town such as Bern's Steakhouse.

 

My tenant has been there for a year & has been at war with the city over his BBQ joint. The smoke from the pit is wafting into the very high-end neighborhood of Hyde Park which Howard Avenue bisects.

 

I have spent some money in attorney's fees to help my tenant massage the city's zoning permits even though he is required to pay for such things himself under our lease agreement. I did this because once he establishes his BBQ joint I'm either going to raise his rent through the roof or terminate the lease & step right in with my own BBQ joint. I just raised his rent Jan 15th 33.33%. He didn't even wince.

 

It is my property. I wrote the lease. He signed it. The local home owners chose to buy homes adjacent to a wildly active commercial strip - pubs, clubs, restaurants, the works. I sympathize with them. But we are all adults in the world, operating at arm's length.

 

 

And you're proud of this? Did you disclose to your tenant what your scheming?

are you proud of all the people you paid pennies on the dollar for their books then made thousands off of them? Because that was what you were scheming.

Your hypocrisy knows no bounds.

[NewWorldOrder]

No one could tell the difference between a 9.2/9.4 or a 9.4/9.6?

 

Wow, here's my new suggestion for NOD.

 

If you REALLY want to help the hobby.

 

Start grading classes. Charge for the training courses. Make the organization money. Run them at conventions. Imagine the impact your organization could have on the hobby if people learned how to grade. Imagine how the hobby could change just if customers and dealers started grading consistently. Establish certified dealers across the country that can do one on one training if people want that.

 

Eventually maybe somebody out there will know how to grade because obviously a well known Overstreet advisor can't tell the difference between a 9.2/9.4 or a 9.4/9.6.

 

Grading is subjective is a COP-OUT for those who are afraid to admit they don't know how to grade or are afraid to admit that the grading guide contradicts itself.

 

 

 

 

 

Nice post boss.

 

Bob always says things better than me.

 

I am in full agreement as there are too many dealers/collectors that think they can grade, but can't.

 

[Scrooge]

what your scheming?

 

This folks, is my first experience of a personal attack on the Boards. I've followed this gentleman's posts for months & have never bothered to acknowledge him. This is the sort of thing Mike Miles gets annoyed with when dealing with anti-pressers. Their zealotry appears to overwhelm their common sense & good taste.

 

Let's just say that Gary probably didn't care the way you came across b/c of how you worded your comment on raising the rent (which had nothing to do with this thread conversation) and, that, I know, Gary's sensitivities in business lie somewhere different than yours.

 

Now that you add that the tenant is aware of your thoughts, I assume his reaction would be different (even though I don't believe it would be that different).

[Moondog]

Nice try, Bob. But, first, that isn't "my business". I'm an investor who suffers like everybody else when all the banks, companies, ratings agencies, etc. who are supposed to be helping me, their customer, fail to do their jobs or abuse their positions.

 

Second of all, all of those activities you mentioned ARE, indeed, deplorable. That's why Bernie Madoff, Bernie Ebbers, Jeff Skilling, etc. are in JAIL. That's why Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken did HARD TIME. That's why Sandy Weill got booted from Citigroup and is OUT OF A JOB. That's why all those Wall Street banks paid millions (billions?) of dollars of fines for their blatant conflicts of interest in the late 1990s and early 2000s. That's why all these bank execs keep getting dragged up to Capitol Hill to testify about their business activities leading up to the financial meltdown of 2008. They all got what they deserved in the end.

 

Anyway, it's all just classic misdirection yet again. Just because there are some bad apples in the financial world and other industries doesn't justify the lot of you steamrolling every book in your path and laying waste to the historical integrity of comics. Nobody has yet responded to my question of how can a book that has been artificially manipulated to a higher grade can be considered the equal to a book that was cherry picked off the stands and meticulously preserved for decades by its owner(s).

 

I still own hundreds of slabs, though I have sold off a good chunk of my modest collection. I still own many thousands of raw books. As some of you know, I am very active in the original art side of the hobby. And, I continue to buy loads of TPBs, hardcovers and digital comics every month and was continuing to actively buy raw books up until just a year or two ago. I attend conventions, hang out regularly with many Board members and participate almost daily on these Boards. I just no longer buy slabbed high grade - that part of the hobby is forever dead to me now.

 

It doesn't matter if this house of cards eventually comes tumbling down - the damage has been done. It was never enough to "just disclose". Manipulating books has a permanent effect on the rest of collectors and every collector that follows down the line. I wonder if the future Brulatos and Schmells of the world will feel as favorably about pressing as their predecessors. Indeed, after this crack-press-resub game eventually and inevitably implodes upon itself, why would future generations of collectors, with no seat on the current gravy train, even think that it was ever a good idea to pancake all those books that were already beautiful and well-preserved.

 

I'm sure this post will be just as derided by many as my last one. But, judging from the e-mails, PMs and conversations I have with many collectors, both here on the Boards and those who are not, I know that I am far from alone in my feelings about this matter.

I don't want to come off as deriding your position. And I think you bring up some valid points. But (you knew there would be a but) I have a big problem with one thing.

You have stated over and over that, due to "manipulation", you have no desire to purchase high grade comics. You also state that "manipulation" will cause the market to crash. So basically your problem with "manipulation" is its effect on prices and by extension its effect on your potential investment. And that is the part of this whole argument that bothers me. Pressers are called greedy time and again. Obviously money is a motivation for the endeavor. But anti-pressers seem to be motivated by the same greed. If their books are no longer the best, the highest graded, the most valuable then, by golly, they are going to take their ball and go home. And if they can't buy the best without some self-induced stigma attached then they want to take no part in the enjoyment of the books themselves. If that is your position then that is your choice. But it is a position that totally disregards any love for the books themselves other than their monetary value. And it is a position that I can't comprehend.

I respect you for speaking out about the problems you see in the hobby. But I have a problem with your equating those problems with greed, when it appears that your fears of losing money are the reason you no longer want to participate.

 

I understand this argument, Richard, and it has validity, but what about the ethics of crack/press/resub where owners of unmanipulated slabbed books (and raw books for that matter) are denied the dollars that the pressers will receive? Doesn't this disturb you at all - especially when the dollars can be thousands and tens of thousands?

And I still dont see why you get your knickers in a twist over this. It really is no different than what you used to do when you would, using your knowledge, buy low and then sell high.

It is just a different avenue of the same thing that comic back issue market has been based on since pretty much the hobby started and people realized that others would pay over cover price for old newsprint with people in tights and girls with headlight boobs on the cover.

How can you, a dealer of all people, cry, wail, and gnash your teeth when you denied people thousands and thousands of dollars off of books you bought from them using knowledge you had that they didnt?

 

I made note of it as another legitimate reason why crack/press/resub is abhorred by a large segment of the collecting community.

 

As for buying a collection at wholesale - where the seller has the information necessary to make an informed decision - this is the basis of free enterprise. It's not so much "buy low - sell high" as it is providing an important service. How many crack/press/resubbers disclose to sellers that they are going press the book and sell it for a huge multiple of the price they're paying?

[Moondog]

Nice try, Bob. But, first, that isn't "my business". I'm an investor who suffers like everybody else when all the banks, companies, ratings agencies, etc. who are supposed to be helping me, their customer, fail to do their jobs or abuse their positions.

 

Second of all, all of those activities you mentioned ARE, indeed, deplorable. That's why Bernie Madoff, Bernie Ebbers, Jeff Skilling, etc. are in JAIL. That's why Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken did HARD TIME. That's why Sandy Weill got booted from Citigroup and is OUT OF A JOB. That's why all those Wall Street banks paid millions (billions?) of dollars of fines for their blatant conflicts of interest in the late 1990s and early 2000s. That's why all these bank execs keep getting dragged up to Capitol Hill to testify about their business activities leading up to the financial meltdown of 2008. They all got what they deserved in the end.

 

Anyway, it's all just classic misdirection yet again. Just because there are some bad apples in the financial world and other industries doesn't justify the lot of you steamrolling every book in your path and laying waste to the historical integrity of comics. Nobody has yet responded to my question of how can a book that has been artificially manipulated to a higher grade can be considered the equal to a book that was cherry picked off the stands and meticulously preserved for decades by its owner(s).

 

I still own hundreds of slabs, though I have sold off a good chunk of my modest collection. I still own many thousands of raw books. As some of you know, I am very active in the original art side of the hobby. And, I continue to buy loads of TPBs, hardcovers and digital comics every month and was continuing to actively buy raw books up until just a year or two ago. I attend conventions, hang out regularly with many Board members and participate almost daily on these Boards. I just no longer buy slabbed high grade - that part of the hobby is forever dead to me now.

 

It doesn't matter if this house of cards eventually comes tumbling down - the damage has been done. It was never enough to "just disclose". Manipulating books has a permanent effect on the rest of collectors and every collector that follows down the line. I wonder if the future Brulatos and Schmells of the world will feel as favorably about pressing as their predecessors. Indeed, after this crack-press-resub game eventually and inevitably implodes upon itself, why would future generations of collectors, with no seat on the current gravy train, even think that it was ever a good idea to pancake all those books that were already beautiful and well-preserved.

 

I'm sure this post will be just as derided by many as my last one. But, judging from the e-mails, PMs and conversations I have with many collectors, both here on the Boards and those who are not, I know that I am far from alone in my feelings about this matter.

I don't want to come off as deriding your position. And I think you bring up some valid points. But (you knew there would be a but) I have a big problem with one thing.

You have stated over and over that, due to "manipulation", you have no desire to purchase high grade comics. You also state that "manipulation" will cause the market to crash. So basically your problem with "manipulation" is its effect on prices and by extension its effect on your potential investment. And that is the part of this whole argument that bothers me. Pressers are called greedy time and again. Obviously money is a motivation for the endeavor. But anti-pressers seem to be motivated by the same greed. If their books are no longer the best, the highest graded, the most valuable then, by golly, they are going to take their ball and go home. And if they can't buy the best without some self-induced stigma attached then they want to take no part in the enjoyment of the books themselves. If that is your position then that is your choice. But it is a position that totally disregards any love for the books themselves other than their monetary value. And it is a position that I can't comprehend.

I respect you for speaking out about the problems you see in the hobby. But I have a problem with your equating those problems with greed, when it appears that your fears of losing money are the reason you no longer want to participate.

 

I understand this argument, Richard, and it has validity, but what about the ethics of crack/press/resub where owners of unmanipulated slabbed books (and raw books for that matter) are denied the dollars that the pressers will receive? Doesn't this disturb you at all - especially when the dollars can be thousands and tens of thousands?

 

Gary, I think that in the times before the penny dropped, when CGC's treatment of pressing was unknown to all but a few 'select' sponsors/contacts/buddys, this argument would have had validity.

 

However, once it became known that CGC didn't treat pressing as resto and it could be as obvious as you like (they were pressing books themselves down the corridor from the grading room!) and it would still get a blue label, the argument crumbled.

 

You then had a choice whether to join in or not.

 

I personally would prefer that nobody made money off the 'game', but that's because the books then wouldn't be 'fiddled with'. I do find it ironic that restoration in this case (yes, I know, the least invasive form of resto) gets you more bucks rather than less but I can't complain about people making money off it if I could do the same and choose not to.

 

What I could complain about is the lunacy that multiplies your selling price by a factor of 5 or 10 for a .2 bump, but that's a story for another day.

 

Agreed, but the comic-book collecting community as a whole is still very ignorant of this scheme.

[TupennyConan]

what your scheming?

 

This folks, is my first experience of a personal attack on the Boards. I've followed this gentleman's posts for months & have never bothered to acknowledge him. This is the sort of thing Mike Miles gets annoyed with when dealing with anti-pressers. Their zealotry appears to overwhelm their common sense & good taste.

 

Let's just say that Gary probably didn't care the way you came across b/c of how you worded your comment on raising the rent (which had nothing to do with this thread conversation) and, that, I know, Gary's sensitivities in business lie somewhere different than yours.

 

Now that you add that the tenant is aware of your thoughts, I assume his reaction would be different (even though I don't believe it would be that different).

 

The purpose here is to explore property rights.

 

A property owner can in good faith do as they please with their property relative to a tenant so long as they adhere to the lease terms.

 

It is my property. I'll press it all day long if the contract allows.

[Scrooge]

what your scheming?

 

This folks, is my first experience of a personal attack on the Boards. I've followed this gentleman's posts for months & have never bothered to acknowledge him. This is the sort of thing Mike Miles gets annoyed with when dealing with anti-pressers. Their zealotry appears to overwhelm their common sense & good taste.

 

Let's just say that Gary probably didn't care the way you came across b/c of how you worded your comment on raising the rent (which had nothing to do with this thread conversation) and, that, I know, Gary's sensitivities in business lie somewhere different than yours.

 

Now that you add that the tenant is aware of your thoughts, I assume his reaction would be different (even though I don't believe it would be that different).

 

The purpose here is to explore property rights.

 

A property owner can in good faith do as they please with their property relative to a tenant so long as they adhere to the lease terms.

 

It is my property. I'll press it all day long if the contract allows.

 

This is not a question of legality but of ethics. And since it isn't my sense of ethics that is in question as Gary was the one who make the comment, I'll withdraw from the conversation. (thumbs u

[arexcrooke]

Nice try, Bob. But, first, that isn't "my business". I'm an investor who suffers like everybody else when all the banks, companies, ratings agencies, etc. who are supposed to be helping me, their customer, fail to do their jobs or abuse their positions.

 

Second of all, all of those activities you mentioned ARE, indeed, deplorable. That's why Bernie Madoff, Bernie Ebbers, Jeff Skilling, etc. are in JAIL. That's why Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken did HARD TIME. That's why Sandy Weill got booted from Citigroup and is OUT OF A JOB. That's why all those Wall Street banks paid millions (billions?) of dollars of fines for their blatant conflicts of interest in the late 1990s and early 2000s. That's why all these bank execs keep getting dragged up to Capitol Hill to testify about their business activities leading up to the financial meltdown of 2008. They all got what they deserved in the end.

 

Anyway, it's all just classic misdirection yet again. Just because there are some bad apples in the financial world and other industries doesn't justify the lot of you steamrolling every book in your path and laying waste to the historical integrity of comics. Nobody has yet responded to my question of how can a book that has been artificially manipulated to a higher grade can be considered the equal to a book that was cherry picked off the stands and meticulously preserved for decades by its owner(s).

 

I still own hundreds of slabs, though I have sold off a good chunk of my modest collection. I still own many thousands of raw books. As some of you know, I am very active in the original art side of the hobby. And, I continue to buy loads of TPBs, hardcovers and digital comics every month and was continuing to actively buy raw books up until just a year or two ago. I attend conventions, hang out regularly with many Board members and participate almost daily on these Boards. I just no longer buy slabbed high grade - that part of the hobby is forever dead to me now.

 

It doesn't matter if this house of cards eventually comes tumbling down - the damage has been done. It was never enough to "just disclose". Manipulating books has a permanent effect on the rest of collectors and every collector that follows down the line. I wonder if the future Brulatos and Schmells of the world will feel as favorably about pressing as their predecessors. Indeed, after this crack-press-resub game eventually and inevitably implodes upon itself, why would future generations of collectors, with no seat on the current gravy train, even think that it was ever a good idea to pancake all those books that were already beautiful and well-preserved.

 

I'm sure this post will be just as derided by many as my last one. But, judging from the e-mails, PMs and conversations I have with many collectors, both here on the Boards and those who are not, I know that I am far from alone in my feelings about this matter.

I don't want to come off as deriding your position. And I think you bring up some valid points. But (you knew there would be a but) I have a big problem with one thing.

You have stated over and over that, due to "manipulation", you have no desire to purchase high grade comics. You also state that "manipulation" will cause the market to crash. So basically your problem with "manipulation" is its effect on prices and by extension its effect on your potential investment. And that is the part of this whole argument that bothers me. Pressers are called greedy time and again. Obviously money is a motivation for the endeavor. But anti-pressers seem to be motivated by the same greed. If their books are no longer the best, the highest graded, the most valuable then, by golly, they are going to take their ball and go home. And if they can't buy the best without some self-induced stigma attached then they want to take no part in the enjoyment of the books themselves. If that is your position then that is your choice. But it is a position that totally disregards any love for the books themselves other than their monetary value. And it is a position that I can't comprehend.

I respect you for speaking out about the problems you see in the hobby. But I have a problem with your equating those problems with greed, when it appears that your fears of losing money are the reason you no longer want to participate.

 

I understand this argument, Richard, and it has validity, but what about the ethics of crack/press/resub where owners of unmanipulated slabbed books (and raw books for that matter) are denied the dollars that the pressers will receive? Doesn't this disturb you at all - especially when the dollars can be thousands and tens of thousands?

And I still dont see why you get your knickers in a twist over this. It really is no different than what you used to do when you would, using your knowledge, buy low and then sell high.

It is just a different avenue of the same thing that comic back issue market has been based on since pretty much the hobby started and people realized that others would pay over cover price for old newsprint with people in tights and girls with headlight boobs on the cover.

How can you, a dealer of all people, cry, wail, and gnash your teeth when you denied people thousands and thousands of dollars off of books you bought from them using knowledge you had that they didnt?

 

I made note of it as another legitimate reason why crack/press/resub is abhorred by a large segment of the collecting community.

 

As for buying a collection at wholesale - where the seller has the information necessary to make an informed decision - this is the basis of free enterprise. It's not so much "buy low - sell high" as it is providing an important service. How many crack/press/resubbers disclose to sellers that they are going press the book and sell it for a huge multiple of the price they're paying?

Providing an important service

OMG that is one of the most hypocritical, self-aggrandizing, and generally scumbaggish sentences Ive have ever been witness too.

So, again, you were "providing an important service" when you were buying collections at pennies on the value? I bet you never bought books from non-collectors since they didnt have the knowledge you did?

Did you disclose to them how much you were going to make? The huge multiple of the price you paid?

You have, in the parlance of the Brits, gone round the twist and seem to have lost touch with reality.

[arexcrooke]

Nice try, Bob. But, first, that isn't "my business". I'm an investor who suffers like everybody else when all the banks, companies, ratings agencies, etc. who are supposed to be helping me, their customer, fail to do their jobs or abuse their positions.

 

Second of all, all of those activities you mentioned ARE, indeed, deplorable. That's why Bernie Madoff, Bernie Ebbers, Jeff Skilling, etc. are in JAIL. That's why Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken did HARD TIME. That's why Sandy Weill got booted from Citigroup and is OUT OF A JOB. That's why all those Wall Street banks paid millions (billions?) of dollars of fines for their blatant conflicts of interest in the late 1990s and early 2000s. That's why all these bank execs keep getting dragged up to Capitol Hill to testify about their business activities leading up to the financial meltdown of 2008. They all got what they deserved in the end.

 

Anyway, it's all just classic misdirection yet again. Just because there are some bad apples in the financial world and other industries doesn't justify the lot of you steamrolling every book in your path and laying waste to the historical integrity of comics. Nobody has yet responded to my question of how can a book that has been artificially manipulated to a higher grade can be considered the equal to a book that was cherry picked off the stands and meticulously preserved for decades by its owner(s).

 

I still own hundreds of slabs, though I have sold off a good chunk of my modest collection. I still own many thousands of raw books. As some of you know, I am very active in the original art side of the hobby. And, I continue to buy loads of TPBs, hardcovers and digital comics every month and was continuing to actively buy raw books up until just a year or two ago. I attend conventions, hang out regularly with many Board members and participate almost daily on these Boards. I just no longer buy slabbed high grade - that part of the hobby is forever dead to me now.

 

It doesn't matter if this house of cards eventually comes tumbling down - the damage has been done. It was never enough to "just disclose". Manipulating books has a permanent effect on the rest of collectors and every collector that follows down the line. I wonder if the future Brulatos and Schmells of the world will feel as favorably about pressing as their predecessors. Indeed, after this crack-press-resub game eventually and inevitably implodes upon itself, why would future generations of collectors, with no seat on the current gravy train, even think that it was ever a good idea to pancake all those books that were already beautiful and well-preserved.

 

I'm sure this post will be just as derided by many as my last one. But, judging from the e-mails, PMs and conversations I have with many collectors, both here on the Boards and those who are not, I know that I am far from alone in my feelings about this matter.

I don't want to come off as deriding your position. And I think you bring up some valid points. But (you knew there would be a but) I have a big problem with one thing.

You have stated over and over that, due to "manipulation", you have no desire to purchase high grade comics. You also state that "manipulation" will cause the market to crash. So basically your problem with "manipulation" is its effect on prices and by extension its effect on your potential investment. And that is the part of this whole argument that bothers me. Pressers are called greedy time and again. Obviously money is a motivation for the endeavor. But anti-pressers seem to be motivated by the same greed. If their books are no longer the best, the highest graded, the most valuable then, by golly, they are going to take their ball and go home. And if they can't buy the best without some self-induced stigma attached then they want to take no part in the enjoyment of the books themselves. If that is your position then that is your choice. But it is a position that totally disregards any love for the books themselves other than their monetary value. And it is a position that I can't comprehend.

I respect you for speaking out about the problems you see in the hobby. But I have a problem with your equating those problems with greed, when it appears that your fears of losing money are the reason you no longer want to participate.

 

I understand this argument, Richard, and it has validity, but what about the ethics of crack/press/resub where owners of unmanipulated slabbed books (and raw books for that matter) are denied the dollars that the pressers will receive? Doesn't this disturb you at all - especially when the dollars can be thousands and tens of thousands?

 

Gary, I think that in the times before the penny dropped, when CGC's treatment of pressing was unknown to all but a few 'select' sponsors/contacts/buddys, this argument would have had validity.

 

However, once it became known that CGC didn't treat pressing as resto and it could be as obvious as you like (they were pressing books themselves down the corridor from the grading room!) and it would still get a blue label, the argument crumbled.

 

You then had a choice whether to join in or not.

 

I personally would prefer that nobody made money off the 'game', but that's because the books then wouldn't be 'fiddled with'. I do find it ironic that restoration in this case (yes, I know, the least invasive form of resto) gets you more bucks rather than less but I can't complain about people making money off it if I could do the same and choose not to.

 

What I could complain about is the lunacy that multiplies your selling price by a factor of 5 or 10 for a .2 bump, but that's a story for another day.

 

Agreed, but the comic-book collecting community as a whole is still very ignorant of this scheme.

So as long as the seller knew you were going to turn the books you bought for next to nothing and sell for a poop-pot full of money later it makes it ok? It isnt a scheme?

[whisp]

Hey I will admit I suck at grading. I am getting better at it though. However since I know I am not the greatest grader I take my book to people that I feel know how to grade by the fact of how many books they sell and have positive feedback continually. When doing this I have had different grades come back from each of them in which I even sent it to CGC after getting their opinions.

 

first person said 8.5 which was the seller

second person said 8.0-8.5 (this person has many board dealings and 100% feedback on ebay in his transaction)

myself was thinking 9.0 (because very crisp interior)

 

CGC came back 9.2

 

they where both shocked at the grade I got

 

Then we have to look at books that are resubs that where 9.0 with no work or anything done to them that come back 9.2 or books that have been graded offwhite pages that come back white pages.

 

How is grading not subjective then?

[TupennyConan]

It is ethical to take your hard earned dollar, purchase any form of property with it, & do with that property as you please to advance what is in your own best interest so long as it is within your legal rights to do so.

[Moondog]

No one could tell the difference between a 9.2/9.4 or a 9.4/9.6?

 

Wow, here's my new suggestion for NOD.

 

If you REALLY want to help the hobby.

 

Start grading classes. Charge for the training courses. Make the organization money. Run them at conventions. Imagine the impact your organization could have on the hobby if people learned how to grade. Imagine how the hobby could change just if customers and dealers started grading consistently. Establish certified dealers across the country that can do one on one training if people want that.

 

Eventually maybe somebody out there will know how to grade because obviously a well known Overstreet advisor can't tell the difference between a 9.2/9.4 or a 9.4/9.6.

 

Grading is subjective is a COP-OUT for those who are afraid to admit they don't know how to grade or are afraid to admit that the grading guide contradicts itself.

 

C'mon, Bob, before CGC the only dealers who used these marginal grades were mail order guys and show dealers who would add a ++++++ to every grade. They were meaningless. The difference between a NM- and NM was NOTICEABLE. With CGC, one day it's a 9.2 the next a 9.4 or even a 9.0.

 

And why bring NOD into this? Getting cranky in your old age I think...

[Foolkiller]

I can't defend what you've chosen to misrepresent, Arex. For one thing, I clearly stated a belief that there are favorable and unfavorable aspects to collecting in both olden tymes and now in the age of CGC. I derided no one. I asked no one to buy and hold, let alone "required", as you put it. I have no idea why you choose to tee off about things I haven't even posted. You're way off base.

Here are your own words Bob, which come across as holier than thou and harkening back to the good old days when people did things differently than today:

ressing and CGC have changed the model by which collectors make money. Used to be collectors made money by buying books and holding them until their value increased above the purchase price. It was slow and a labor of love for the comics,

Why is it a labor of love then to make money off of books but now it turns into:

Now we have the age of collector A.D.D., in which books can be pressed, slabbed, and sold above purchase price essentially immediately.

but the current age of flipping would seem to hold less love for the comics.

So others in the past never bought books when they were a good deal and then immediately turned and sold them? I guess no one ever did that and took the proceeds to buy books that they wanted.

 

As far as why I slab books before selling them, the answer is obvious: to get a better price for them. You got a problem with that, too?

Oh hell no. I have no problem with that at all. I love making a buck, especially one that allows me to buy books I really want. Well, at that time I really want them

 

Arex,

 

As I've mentioned to a few others in your group who seem to make it a point of going after Bob Siman repeatedly because you perceive that he is somehow being aloof and arrogant as he speaks, I'll relay this to you here as well. I've noticed that you have publicly gone after Bob and singled him out fairly often. Over time, I've become very close with Bob and so I can tell you that I find him one of the least condescending people I know. Nor does he view his way of collecting with any kind of "moral superiority".

 

While everyone is free to express their opinions as they see fit, and I am certainly hard occasionally on people when I think it is deserved, these kinds of deeply personal jabs at Bob seem repeated and mean spirited in my opinion and not deserved. While I have pointed out to Bob that his position on pressing may seem contradictory, I'm not sure that any of this should expose him to repeated derision. I'm singling this instance out because you seem to be going out of your way to go after someone for something that really is complete misinterpretation of his personality and his intent.

 

I'd like to remind you also that I believe the single largest donation in the Nik charity drive was by Bob I believe and his X-Men 10 CGC 9.4 -- this is one of the best people and one of the best collectors I know.

 

You know I like you as well Arex and respect you as well. When I see a repeated conflict that becomes very personal in nature, I ask that you at least consider that Bob, someone you've gone to dinner/lunch with, bought books from and sold to, and has been a collector a long time and done many positive things for the comic book community, there are better and worse ways to express our difference of opinion with others. Even in this heated debate, which at times I have disagreed with some of my friends like Nick (flaming telepath) and Gene -- I hope that they feel that I was respectful of them even while disagreeing with their stance on this issue.

[Paratrooper]

It is ethical to take your hard earned dollar, purchase any form of property with it, & do with that property as you please to advance what is in your own best interest so long as it is within your legal rights to do so.

 

You are 100% correct. I own two properties, soon to be three..and I'll do whatever the hell I want with them.

[arexcrooke]

No one could tell the difference between a 9.2/9.4 or a 9.4/9.6?

 

Wow, here's my new suggestion for NOD.

 

If you REALLY want to help the hobby.

 

Start grading classes. Charge for the training courses. Make the organization money. Run them at conventions. Imagine the impact your organization could have on the hobby if people learned how to grade. Imagine how the hobby could change just if customers and dealers started grading consistently. Establish certified dealers across the country that can do one on one training if people want that.

 

Eventually maybe somebody out there will know how to grade because obviously a well known Overstreet advisor can't tell the difference between a 9.2/9.4 or a 9.4/9.6.

 

Grading is subjective is a COP-OUT for those who are afraid to admit they don't know how to grade or are afraid to admit that the grading guide contradicts itself.

 

C'mon, Bob, before CGC the only dealers who used these marginal grades were mail order guys and show dealers who would add a ++++++ to every grade. They were meaningless. The difference between a NM- and NM was NOTICEABLE. With CGC, one day it's a 9.2 the next a 9.4 or even a 9.0.

 

And why bring NOD into this? Getting cranky in your old age I think...

The difference between a NM and a NM- is still noticable.

I guess you would like to go back to the Good Fine Very Fine style of grading?

[buttock]

This thread has reached unfathomable levels of ego and stupidity.

[Moondog]

I think I'm always going to side with property rights. That's why I've raised the inflammatory capitalist vs. socialist points before. That & to be a clown.

 

I have a building on south Howard Avenue ~ SoHo ~ in Tampa. SoHo has that pretentious name because it is Tampa's restaurant row, home to all of the finest eateries in town such as Bern's Steakhouse.

 

My tenant has been there for a year & has been at war with the city over his BBQ joint. The smoke from the pit is wafting into the very high-end neighborhood of Hyde Park which Howard Avenue bisects.

 

I have spent some money in attorney's fees to help my tenant massage the city's zoning permits even though he is required to pay for such things himself under our lease agreement. I did this because once he establishes his BBQ joint I'm either going to raise his rent through the roof or terminate the lease & step right in with my own BBQ joint. I just raised his rent Jan 15th 33.33%. He didn't even wince.

 

It is my property. I wrote the lease. He signed it. The local home owners chose to buy homes adjacent to a wildly active commercial strip - pubs, clubs, restaurants, the works. I sympathize with them. But we are all adults in the world, operating at arm's length.

 

 

And you're proud of this? Did you disclose to your tenant what your scheming?

 

Yes to both & you better believe it, bigshot.

 

It is my property. I tried to make it clear to you how much it is worth. It is on the most desirable, the most trendy street in the area for restaurants. My tenant is one of the most savvy bar, restaurant & nightclub owners in town. At present, I am his sucker at the current rent. I get calls every day on the property. I could have doubled his rent.

 

I am damn proud of what I do with my property.

 

Lease agreements are contracts between men & their attorneys.

 

Well, if you're going to bring up examples to make a point, then be more expansive. Go re-read your post. You sound like a scheming, greedy jerk. I had many landlords like that during the past 30 years and it hits close to home.

 

 

[Moondog]

I think I'm always going to side with property rights. That's why I've raised the inflammatory capitalist vs. socialist points before. That & to be a clown.

 

I have a building on south Howard Avenue ~ SoHo ~ in Tampa. SoHo has that pretentious name because it is Tampa's restaurant row, home to all of the finest eateries in town such as Bern's Steakhouse.

 

My tenant has been there for a year & has been at war with the city over his BBQ joint. The smoke from the pit is wafting into the very high-end neighborhood of Hyde Park which Howard Avenue bisects.

 

I have spent some money in attorney's fees to help my tenant massage the city's zoning permits even though he is required to pay for such things himself under our lease agreement. I did this because once he establishes his BBQ joint I'm either going to raise his rent through the roof or terminate the lease & step right in with my own BBQ joint. I just raised his rent Jan 15th 33.33%. He didn't even wince.

 

It is my property. I wrote the lease. He signed it. The local home owners chose to buy homes adjacent to a wildly active commercial strip - pubs, clubs, restaurants, the works. I sympathize with them. But we are all adults in the world, operating at arm's length.

 

 

And you're proud of this? Did you disclose to your tenant what your scheming?

 

Yes to both & you better believe it, bigshot.

 

It is my property. I tried to make it clear to you how much it is worth. It is on the most desirable, the most trendy street in the area for restaurants. My tenant is one of the most savvy bar, restaurant & nightclub owners in town. At present, I am his sucker at the current rent. I get calls every day on the property. I could have doubled his rent.

 

I am damn proud of what I do with my property.

 

Lease agreements are contracts between men & their attorneys.

 

It wasn't clear until you edited your post. Your initial post made it seem like you were jacking up the rent just to be malicious... with the intent of driving out your tenant so you could open a competing property in the same place.

 

Probably not your intent.

 

 

I must have responded to the unedited post. This is EXACTLY the impression I had. I apologize, TwoPennyConan, if you worded your original post incorrectly and I over reacted.

[arexcrooke]

Brian,

fair enough.

Bob,

my apologies, I will attempt to keep my comments in our discussions to be less condescending and personal.