How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

This thread has reached unfathomable levels of ego and stupidity.

 

Can you name me a Pressing thread that hasn't?

 

[TupennyConan]

I think I'm always going to side with property rights. That's why I've raised the inflammatory capitalist vs. socialist points before. That & to be a clown.

 

I have a building on south Howard Avenue ~ SoHo ~ in Tampa. SoHo has that pretentious name because it is Tampa's restaurant row, home to all of the finest eateries in town such as Bern's Steakhouse.

 

My tenant has been there for a year & has been at war with the city over his BBQ joint. The smoke from the pit is wafting into the very high-end neighborhood of Hyde Park which Howard Avenue bisects.

 

I have spent some money in attorney's fees to help my tenant massage the city's zoning permits even though he is required to pay for such things himself under our lease agreement. I did this because once he establishes his BBQ joint I'm either going to raise his rent through the roof or terminate the lease & step right in with my own BBQ joint. I just raised his rent Jan 15th 33.33%. He didn't even wince.

 

It is my property. I wrote the lease. He signed it. The local home owners chose to buy homes adjacent to a wildly active commercial strip - pubs, clubs, restaurants, the works. I sympathize with them. But we are all adults in the world, operating at arm's length.

 

 

And you're proud of this? Did you disclose to your tenant what your scheming?

 

Yes to both & you better believe it, bigshot.

 

It is my property. I tried to make it clear to you how much it is worth. It is on the most desirable, the most trendy street in the area for restaurants. My tenant is one of the most savvy bar, restaurant & nightclub owners in town. At present, I am his sucker at the current rent. I get calls every day on the property. I could have doubled his rent.

 

I am damn proud of what I do with my property.

 

Lease agreements are contracts between men & their attorneys.

 

It wasn't clear until you edited your post. Your initial post made it seem like you were jacking up the rent just to be malicious... with the intent of driving out your tenant so you could open a competing property in the same place.

 

Probably not your intent.

 

 

I must have responded to the unedited post. This is EXACTLY the impression I had. I apologize, TwoPennyConan, if you worded your original post incorrectly and I over reacted.

 

I always edit my posts a second or two later because I can't spell worth a spoon on the first go.

 

TwoPennyConan is fun but I prefer Tupenny.

 

I apologize for being a whole buncha bad things I won't list here today.

 

 

[MCMiles]

I think I'm always going to side with property rights. That's why I've raised the inflammatory capitalist vs. socialist points before. That & to be a clown.

 

I have a building on south Howard Avenue ~ SoHo ~ in Tampa. SoHo has that pretentious name because it is Tampa's restaurant row, home to all of the finest eateries in town such as Bern's Steakhouse.

 

My tenant has been there for a year & has been at war with the city over his BBQ joint. The smoke from the pit is wafting into the very high-end neighborhood of Hyde Park which Howard Avenue bisects.

 

I have spent some money in attorney's fees to help my tenant massage the city's zoning permits even though he is required to pay for such things himself under our lease agreement. I did this because once he establishes his BBQ joint I'm either going to raise his rent through the roof or terminate the lease & step right in with my own BBQ joint. I just raised his rent Jan 15th 33.33%. He didn't even wince.

 

It is my property. I wrote the lease. He signed it. The local home owners chose to buy homes adjacent to a wildly active commercial strip - pubs, clubs, restaurants, the works. I sympathize with them. But we are all adults in the world, operating at arm's length.

 

 

And you're proud of this? Did you disclose to your tenant what your scheming?

 

Yes to both & you better believe it, bigshot.

 

It is my property. I tried to make it clear to you how much it is worth. It is on the most desirable, the most trendy street in the area for restaurants. My tenant is one of the most savvy bar, restaurant & nightclub owners in town. At present, I am his sucker at the current rent. I get calls every day on the property. I could have doubled his rent.

 

I am damn proud of what I do with my property.

 

Lease agreements are contracts between men & their attorneys.

 

It wasn't clear until you edited your post. Your initial post made it seem like you were jacking up the rent just to be malicious... with the intent of driving out your tenant so you could open a competing property in the same place.

 

Probably not your intent.

 

 

I must have responded to the unedited post. This is EXACTLY the impression I had. I apologize, TwoPennyConan, if you worded your original post incorrectly and I over reacted.

 

I always edit my posts a second or two later because I can't spell worth a spoon on the first go.

 

TwoPennyConan is fun but I prefer Tupenny.

 

I apologize for being a whole buncha bad things I won't list here today.

 

Too late. off halfpenny.

[TupennyConan]

Too late. off halfpenny.

 

 

[buttock]

This thread has reached unfathomable levels of ego and stupidity.

 

Can you name me a Pressing thread that hasn't?

 

I struggled with the adjective there. This thread is like that scene in "A Christmas Story". It skipped right over triple-stupid and went straight to triple-dog stupid. And the self-righteousness...

[whisp]

This thread has reached unfathomable levels of ego and stupidity.

 

Can you name me a Pressing thread that hasn't?

 

I struggled with the adjective there. This thread is like that scene in "A Christmas Story". It skipped right over triple-stupid and went straight to triple-dog stupid. And the self-righteousness...

 

Yeah but we havn't gotten to the point where someone shoots out their own eye so we are still good to go.

[Paratrooper]

My dog is sleepy

[greggy]

[TupennyConan]

This thread has reached unfathomable levels of ego and stupidity.

 

[DarkKnightReturns]

This thread has reached unfathomable levels of ego and stupidity.

 

Can you name me a Pressing thread that hasn't?

[Moondog]

Nice try, Bob. But, first, that isn't "my business". I'm an investor who suffers like everybody else when all the banks, companies, ratings agencies, etc. who are supposed to be helping me, their customer, fail to do their jobs or abuse their positions.

 

Second of all, all of those activities you mentioned ARE, indeed, deplorable. That's why Bernie Madoff, Bernie Ebbers, Jeff Skilling, etc. are in JAIL. That's why Ivan Boesky and Michael Milken did HARD TIME. That's why Sandy Weill got booted from Citigroup and is OUT OF A JOB. That's why all those Wall Street banks paid millions (billions?) of dollars of fines for their blatant conflicts of interest in the late 1990s and early 2000s. That's why all these bank execs keep getting dragged up to Capitol Hill to testify about their business activities leading up to the financial meltdown of 2008. They all got what they deserved in the end.

 

Anyway, it's all just classic misdirection yet again. Just because there are some bad apples in the financial world and other industries doesn't justify the lot of you steamrolling every book in your path and laying waste to the historical integrity of comics. Nobody has yet responded to my question of how can a book that has been artificially manipulated to a higher grade can be considered the equal to a book that was cherry picked off the stands and meticulously preserved for decades by its owner(s).

 

I still own hundreds of slabs, though I have sold off a good chunk of my modest collection. I still own many thousands of raw books. As some of you know, I am very active in the original art side of the hobby. And, I continue to buy loads of TPBs, hardcovers and digital comics every month and was continuing to actively buy raw books up until just a year or two ago. I attend conventions, hang out regularly with many Board members and participate almost daily on these Boards. I just no longer buy slabbed high grade - that part of the hobby is forever dead to me now.

 

It doesn't matter if this house of cards eventually comes tumbling down - the damage has been done. It was never enough to "just disclose". Manipulating books has a permanent effect on the rest of collectors and every collector that follows down the line. I wonder if the future Brulatos and Schmells of the world will feel as favorably about pressing as their predecessors. Indeed, after this crack-press-resub game eventually and inevitably implodes upon itself, why would future generations of collectors, with no seat on the current gravy train, even think that it was ever a good idea to pancake all those books that were already beautiful and well-preserved.

 

I'm sure this post will be just as derided by many as my last one. But, judging from the e-mails, PMs and conversations I have with many collectors, both here on the Boards and those who are not, I know that I am far from alone in my feelings about this matter.

I don't want to come off as deriding your position. And I think you bring up some valid points. But (you knew there would be a but) I have a big problem with one thing.

You have stated over and over that, due to "manipulation", you have no desire to purchase high grade comics. You also state that "manipulation" will cause the market to crash. So basically your problem with "manipulation" is its effect on prices and by extension its effect on your potential investment. And that is the part of this whole argument that bothers me. Pressers are called greedy time and again. Obviously money is a motivation for the endeavor. But anti-pressers seem to be motivated by the same greed. If their books are no longer the best, the highest graded, the most valuable then, by golly, they are going to take their ball and go home. And if they can't buy the best without some self-induced stigma attached then they want to take no part in the enjoyment of the books themselves. If that is your position then that is your choice. But it is a position that totally disregards any love for the books themselves other than their monetary value. And it is a position that I can't comprehend.

I respect you for speaking out about the problems you see in the hobby. But I have a problem with your equating those problems with greed, when it appears that your fears of losing money are the reason you no longer want to participate.

 

I understand this argument, Richard, and it has validity, but what about the ethics of crack/press/resub where owners of unmanipulated slabbed books (and raw books for that matter) are denied the dollars that the pressers will receive? Doesn't this disturb you at all - especially when the dollars can be thousands and tens of thousands?

And I still dont see why you get your knickers in a twist over this. It really is no different than what you used to do when you would, using your knowledge, buy low and then sell high.

It is just a different avenue of the same thing that comic back issue market has been based on since pretty much the hobby started and people realized that others would pay over cover price for old newsprint with people in tights and girls with headlight boobs on the cover.

How can you, a dealer of all people, cry, wail, and gnash your teeth when you denied people thousands and thousands of dollars off of books you bought from them using knowledge you had that they didnt?

 

I made note of it as another legitimate reason why crack/press/resub is abhorred by a large segment of the collecting community.

 

As for buying a collection at wholesale - where the seller has the information necessary to make an informed decision - this is the basis of free enterprise. It's not so much "buy low - sell high" as it is providing an important service. How many crack/press/resubbers disclose to sellers that they are going press the book and sell it for a huge multiple of the price they're paying?

Providing an important service

OMG that is one of the most hypocritical, self-aggrandizing, and generally scumbaggish sentences Ive have ever been witness too.

So, again, you were "providing an important service" when you were buying collections at pennies on the value? I bet you never bought books from non-collectors since they didnt have the knowledge you did?

Did you disclose to them how much you were going to make? The huge multiple of the price you paid?

You have, in the parlance of the Brits, gone round the twist and seem to have lost touch with reality.

 

Dealers provide a valuable service to collectors in every hobby. Most collectors are not interested in selling at auctions. They want to move their collection fast and easy and that's where dealers come in. Most of the comics dealers I know are honest guys who make sure that potential sellers have the information they need to make a decision. "I purchase comics like yours for resale. Your comics have a market value of approximately $10,000. I will pay you $3,500. Cash." If the seller agrees we have a deal. If he doesn't he can call someone else or sell them on eBay or one of the auction houses. I've been doing business this way for 35 years. I bought the Windy City Collection in exactly this manner.

 

Your insinuation that I'm a dishonest swindler makes me regret giving you the free pass for Wizard World a couple of years ago. I was told you were a good guy.

 

 

[skypinkblu]

*sigh* I wish Paratrooper's derail had worked...

 

It's tough being a Libra...

 

I think the people that are the ones most people get upset about are NOT THE PEOPLE in this thread, guys!

 

I've seen Mike, Joey, Arex etc, dive into boxes to find books...they really do it without malice. It's a game...I think it works the same way as when I go to a garage sale and find a treasure and toss it on Ebay to see what happens.

 

It's not the same I agree as resubbing a pedigree and disguising it.

 

I do understand the preservationists, too. Frankly, I feel the same way about CGC books. I like the people here, but I rarely slab books unless it's an expensive book I want to sell, or an expensive book I want to have protected by insurance or from damage. I prefer having naked books. I don't care if a kid painted my naked books, it's part of the history to me.

I've met Bob and Bill...both really nice guys. Gary knows how much I like him, I baked him a cake;)

 

I think everyone needs to go have a virtual drink together and stop the bashing, please.

 

On the count of three...

 

GROUP HUG!

[DarkKnightReturns]

 

You buy anything today ? Saw you leaving with a big backpack on

[taro90]

This thread has reached unfathomable levels of ego and stupidity.

 

But for the reader, it has become quite amusing. It made me missed a bunch of great books from Filter81 on ebay. Damn you stinking pressing threads!!!!!!

[greggy]

 

You buy anything today ? Saw you leaving with a big backpack on

Yes

[DarkKnightReturns]

 

You buy anything today ? Saw you leaving with a big backpack on

Yes

[RockMyAmadeus]

Almost halfway to 1500!

[Moondog]

I think I'm always going to side with property rights. That's why I've raised the inflammatory capitalist vs. socialist points before. That & to be a clown.

 

I have a building on south Howard Avenue ~ SoHo ~ in Tampa. SoHo has that pretentious name because it is Tampa's restaurant row, home to all of the finest eateries in town such as Bern's Steakhouse.

 

My tenant has been there for a year & has been at war with the city over his BBQ joint. The smoke from the pit is wafting into the very high-end neighborhood of Hyde Park which Howard Avenue bisects.

 

I have spent some money in attorney's fees to help my tenant massage the city's zoning permits even though he is required to pay for such things himself under our lease agreement. I did this because once he establishes his BBQ joint I'm either going to raise his rent through the roof or terminate the lease & step right in with my own BBQ joint. I just raised his rent Jan 15th 33.33%. He didn't even wince.

 

It is my property. I wrote the lease. He signed it. The local home owners chose to buy homes adjacent to a wildly active commercial strip - pubs, clubs, restaurants, the works. I sympathize with them. But we are all adults in the world, operating at arm's length.

 

 

And you're proud of this? Did you disclose to your tenant what your scheming?

 

Yes to both & you better believe it, bigshot.

 

It is my property. I tried to make it clear to you how much it is worth. It is on the most desirable, the most trendy street in the area for restaurants. My tenant is one of the most savvy bar, restaurant & nightclub owners in town. At present, I am his sucker at the current rent. I get calls every day on the property. I could have doubled his rent.

 

I am damn proud of what I do with my property.

 

Lease agreements are contracts between men & their attorneys.

 

It wasn't clear until you edited your post. Your initial post made it seem like you were jacking up the rent just to be malicious... with the intent of driving out your tenant so you could open a competing property in the same place.

 

Probably not your intent.

 

 

I must have responded to the unedited post. This is EXACTLY the impression I had. I apologize, TwoPennyConan, if you worded your original post incorrectly and I over reacted.

 

I always edit my posts a second or two later because I can't spell worth a spoon on the first go.

 

TwoPennyConan is fun but I prefer Tupenny.

 

I apologize for being a whole buncha bad things I won't list here today.

 

 

Again, I apologize for my post. I also agree with you that it's your property and can do anything you want with it. No argument there. It just sounded so cold and calculating that it got an immediate reaction from me.

 

And sorry about the name mixup. Tupenny it is.

[FlyingDonut]

I like Arex. He's a peach. I've known Gary for over 30 years ( ) . He's a peach too.

 

[Moondog]

*sigh* I wish Paratrooper's derail had worked...

 

It's tough being a Libra...

 

I think the people that are the ones most people get upset about are NOT THE PEOPLE in this thread, guys!

 

I've seen Mike, Joey, Arex etc, dive into boxes to find books...they really do it without malice. It's a game...I think it works the same way as when I go to a garage sale and find a treasure and toss it on Ebay to see what happens.

 

It's not the same I agree as resubbing a pedigree and disguising it.

 

I do understand the preservationists, too. Frankly, I feel the same way about CGC books. I like the people here, but I rarely slab books unless it's an expensive book I want to sell, or an expensive book I want to have protected by insurance or from damage. I prefer having naked books. I don't care if a kid painted my naked books, it's part of the history to me.

I've met Bob and Bill...both really nice guys. Gary knows how much I like him, I baked him a cake;)

 

I think everyone needs to go have a virtual drink together and stop the bashing, please.

 

On the count of three...

 

GROUP HUG!

 

I'm all for hugs, Sha.

 

Congrats on your Jets (you gotta be a Jets fan - not a snooty Giants fan, right?)!