How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[Dale Roberts]

Gary I have lots of respect for you but wanted to share a few thoughts:

 

My indignation with CPR stems from the fact that it couldn't exist if CGC would accept responsibility for their role in the practice and change their procedures. If a book receives a certain grade, and subsequently the book is manipulated and resubmitted it should be noted on the label that this book has been manipulated (I don't care what color label it gets). If it means adding cost to the process (the detection of manipulation, high-res scans, data base monitoring, added personnel etc.) then they should do it.

 

The problem with what you are proposing is consistency. You can not detect MOST pressed books and the room for error would be enormous. That's not the case with any other form of work done to a book. Would you want a company performing a service where likely more than 1/2 the judgement calls would or could be incorrect?

 

I agree on more consistent grading. Ever since F_T has told me how his grading is consistent, I've been unable to find a reason as to why CGC's isn't. Maybe F_T is just one of those rare people who excel at something, or maybe he has a system that works really well.

 

Going forward, this is going to be at the heart of how CGC's rep is maintained IMO. They are great people (I know almost all of them personally and consider most of them friends) but as we all agree, we are all flawed. Somehow a better system will need to be built for better quality control. These detailed discussions are putting the focus on "buying the book and not the label" to such a great degree that consistency is being pushed to the forefront. Collectors are becoming better graders because of these discussions.

 

It's going to be interesting to see how CGC adapts as collectors become better educated.

 

But because this practice would probably result in lower profits, they will hide behind their standard defenses of "pressing is not detectable, we don't know if a book has been graded before unless it has it's resubbed with its label, etc.)." This conflict of interest - providing a service that claims to certify what a book is, yet not to the degree that collectors demand - is the heart of the matter.

 

There is no conflict of interest. They set the parameters for their company and are sticking by them.

 

Have you had any progress with your lab work in attempting to detect pressed books?

 

And the FF 112 matter was so egregious that I had to say something. Sure the guy sold the book for $3,000, but someone profited to the tune of $20,000. That just ain't right.

 

There really is no line in the sand that you can draw here and say this is right and that isn't.

 

Everyone was treated fairly every step of the way. It's just an emotional argument, not a logical one.

 

 

Hey Roy,

 

See my answer to Steve - it's the CPR books that I'm referring to. And we can agree to disagree about the "fair" treatment the fellow who lost $$20,000 received.

 

Actually Gary, I am the guy who sold the book for 3000.00, and the guy I bought it from sold it for somewhere in the 1000.00 - 1200.00 range(it was part of a larger group of books for 7K). And the guy that sold it for 1000.00 bought it from our own pickycollector, probably for around 100.00. Everybody up and down the line made money and nothing was done wrong. The only guy who didn't do so great was the guy who spent 24K on the FF112, but it was in auction and NOBODY, not even Schmell thought the book would do for that much money. He was hoping for 10K. And I would almost guarantee that the guy who bought the book for 24K a) doesn't care about the money, but wanted the book and b) probably knew or at least suspected that the book had been pressed.

 

 

[Moondog]

Gary-

 

Just wondering.......

 

If I brought you 50 correctly pressed books (say, that it would be a jump from 9.4 to 9.6 or 9.0 to 9.2) and 50 non-pressed books, can you tell the difference?

 

I can't.

 

CGC would go out of business with spending they $$$ needed to detect it.

 

Maybe the people who don't like pressing, can take up a collection of say.....$500,000 and give it to CGC, so they don't go out of business when they do what you want.

 

I hope you know I was tounge in cheek on that last part

 

 

 

I'm with you on the cost, Steve, that's why I mentioned CPR books specifically - not raw pressed books. Once CGC gives a book grade, they have the ability to identify that book if it were to show up again in a raw state. It would be more costly to do this, but it's too important not to.

 

But Gary, who is to say that CGC was correct the first time? And I don't actually think you could differentiate between many of the books with any amount of certainty. Especially on uber high grade books.

 

Well, you're bringing up the inconsistency problem again, Dale (which is my main complaint). If their database said this book was originally graded 8.5, but now it's a 9.2 because of manipulation, it should be given the 9.2 grade but with a notation on the label.

 

And there are sophisticated techniques that CGC can use to identify each book that they grade so they can determine if it's a CPR.

[Pirate]

quality show up yet?

[Transplant]

Gary, you really should retire from this hobby and stop being a Overstreet advisor. When exactly have all of you even been in the same room to discuss the hobby? And before you bring up the logistics of travel I'll ask if you've ever heard of webex?

 

Typical let the other guy do it type thinking.

Uncalled for. Oh, and since I wasn't here to say it earlier, stop bringing NOD up when it doesn't have anything to do with the discussion. It just makes you look biased.

[Dale Roberts]

Gary-

 

Just wondering.......

 

If I brought you 50 correctly pressed books (say, that it would be a jump from 9.4 to 9.6 or 9.0 to 9.2) and 50 non-pressed books, can you tell the difference?

 

I can't.

 

CGC would go out of business with spending they $$$ needed to detect it.

 

Maybe the people who don't like pressing, can take up a collection of say.....$500,000 and give it to CGC, so they don't go out of business when they do what you want.

 

I hope you know I was tounge in cheek on that last part

 

 

 

I'm with you on the cost, Steve, that's why I mentioned CPR books specifically - not raw pressed books. Once CGC gives a book grade, they have the ability to identify that book if it were to show up again in a raw state. It would be more costly to do this, but it's too important not to.

 

But Gary, who is to say that CGC was correct the first time? And I don't actually think you could differentiate between many of the books with any amount of certainty. Especially on uber high grade books.

 

Well, you're bringing up the inconsistency problem again, Dale (which is my main complaint). If their database said this book was originally graded 8.5, but now it's a 9.2 because of manipulation, it should be given the 9.2 grade but with a notation on the label.

 

And there are sophisticated techniques that CGC can use to identify each book that they grade so they can determine if it's a CPR.

 

I don't want anybody doing any sophisticated techniques on my books. Somebody might call it restoration......

 

I prefer a simple smash for cash.

[taro90]

quality show up yet?

 

No sign of him yet. Give it a few more days.

[Paratrooper]

I got a embed disabled upon request. Sorry I interrupted a serious pressing debate.

[blazingbob]

What exactly am I biased about? I want to improve the hobby. I see major problems in this hobby regarding grading, undisclosed restoration, Ebay, privately owned auction houses, conventions as well as CGC.

 

I don't feel that it's CGC's job alone. I happen to think that's what NOD was set up to do. If I'm wrong than I guess NOD is just all about disclosure of pressing. Which is NOT what I think it's intent solely was.

 

Who would you like to lead the drive to better this hobby?

 

Or would you prefer that we continue to post threads like we've done for almost 10 years since this forum board started.

 

I'm all ears.

 

 

 

 

[Moondog]

 

Hey Roy,

 

See my answer to Steve - it's the CPR books that I'm referring to. And we can agree to disagree about the "fair" treatment the fellow who lost $$20,000 received.

 

Fair enough. Still looks impossible to implement going forward.

 

Just wanted to ask this again:

 

Have you had any progress with your lab work in attempting to detect pressed books?

 

I wasn't trying to see if a lab could create a process to detect pressing, Roy. I was trying to determine what effect pressing was having on pulp paper 20-70 years old.

 

I basically gave up about 8 months ago. It was starting to be much more expensive than I anticipated and I lost interest when NOD had its public problems.

[Moondog]

All of those books started out raw before they got put into those plastic holders. A lot of grading was used to determine if they were even worth getting slabbed. The reason CGC is in business is because of the fact that most people can't grade and that consistency is lacking.

 

I'm all for educating collectors and Dealers. I'm not above being certified or going to school to learn something.

 

Gary, you really should retire from this hobby and stop being a Overstreet advisor. When exactly have all of you even been in the same room to discuss the hobby? And before you bring up the logistics of travel I'll ask if you've ever heard of webex?

 

Typical let the other guy do it type thinking.

 

Bob,

 

Are you suffering from Overstreet Advisor envy?

 

 

Just kidding of course, but ease up, man.

[Lebowski]

I'm still converting my CD's, just finished with my Toadies, Tool collection and now working on U2. This process takes forever!

 

Sounds like you can save yourself and a lot of time, throw them out, and get back to the things you do best, like post when drunk.

 

I am

 

 

I tried, have run out of beer, so am heading to bed. Hopefully none of those U2 albums are after The Joshua Tree.

Joshua Tree, War and Achtung Baby. Now working on Rufus Wainright, Ween and Weezer.

 

Dear God, yes! That's what I'm talking about! My vote's for Chocolate & Cheese and The Mollusk.

[Paratrooper]

I'm still converting my CD's, just finished with my Toadies, Tool collection and now working on U2. This process takes forever!

 

Sounds like you can save yourself and a lot of time, throw them out, and get back to the things you do best, like post when drunk.

 

I am

 

 

I tried, have run out of beer, so am heading to bed. Hopefully none of those U2 albums are after The Joshua Tree.

Joshua Tree, War and Achtung Baby. Now working on Rufus Wainright, Ween and Weezer.

 

Dear God, yes! That's what I'm talking about! My vote's for Chocalate & Cheese and The Mollusk.

 

I've got all of their albums, but my favorite is Chocolate & Cheese.

[sborock]

I got a embed disabled upon request. Sorry I interrupted a serious pressing debate.

 

Just saw this!

[Lebowski]

I've got all of their albums, but my favorite is Chocolate & Cheese.

 

Buenos Tardes Amigo.

 

[Paratrooper]

I've got all of their albums, but my favorite is Chocolate & Cheese.

 

Buenos Tardes Amigo.

 

 

What! You can embed but I cannot! What pansy reported me? If you're going to report me for something, be man enough to say so.

[Lebowski]

I've got all of their albums, but my favorite is Chocolate & Cheese.

 

Buenos Tardes Amigo.

 

 

What! You can embed but I cannot! What pansy reported me? If you're going to report me for something, be man enough to say so.

 

A conspiracy, I tell you.

[Paratrooper]

I've got all of their albums, but my favorite is Chocolate & Cheese.

 

Buenos Tardes Amigo.

 

 

What! You can embed but I cannot! What pansy reported me? If you're going to report me for something, be man enough to say so.

 

A conspiracy, I tell you.

 

Not a conspiracy, but self involved vainglorious poster decided their contributions to this regurgitation of the past was relevant.

[Lebowski]

Not a conspiracy, but self involved vainglorious poster decided their contributions to this regurgitation of the past was relevant.

 

Well, that's a shame. This thread could use a cool soundtrack.

[lookwhoitis]

Collecting is about control.

 

Uh oh!

[lookwhoitis]

 

Kramerica's point about John Buscema is the most profound post in this entire thread.

 

 

I concur...