How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[Old Fashion PB and J]

However, as my opinions are clearly contrary to NOD's, and also fairly worthless to them

 

Your opinion on this specific issue may be contrary, but I can assure you that your opinions are NOT worthless to the group. We can disagree on this issue and still agree on many others.

 

 

Absolutely. I certainly value what Nick writes, whether I agree or not. (thumbs u

I find myself agreeing with Nick much more often than not.

[Davenport]

 

If, as many are saying, the hobby has evolved, then what prohibits CGC from evolving with it. Even though pressing was going on prior to CGC, it was never as prevalent as it is right now. What prohibits them from changing or "evolving" as you say, in accordance with how things are now?

I started a thread around your excellent question: Grading: Endless Debates & Evolution

 

To me it's such an obvious question and probably ground zero for any actual "hope" of reigning in the book tampering phenomenon.

 

Seems to be an obvious question without an answer though. You don't have to read that thread, below pretty much sums up where it went...

 

If defects are seen, then they must be taken into consideration while grading.

Couldn't the consideration include that they're not permanent?

No. That's not what "grading" is. Now, you can make a grading scale for yourself if you like and see if people use it as well............

[alecholland]

 

So your argument is more Darwinian in nature - evolve.

 

If, as many are saying, the hobby has evolved, then what prohibits CGC from evolving with it. Even though pressing was going on prior to CGC, it was never as prevalent as it is right now. What prohibits them from changing or "evolving" as you say, in accordance with how things are now?

 

To some degree yes. And I'm surprised that people on the pro pressing side aren't just blunt with the realities as well.

 

There's nothing that prevents further evolution and for someone to assume or argue differently is foolish. This hobby will continue to evolve. The problem will be is unless someone comes up with a cost effective way to detect, no one ever will and you will have tens of thousands of pressed books in the current and existing marketplace. It involves a problem of valuation and money. People who have pressed books now will not want to see a position adopted that devalues all of their books. I think it's becoming institutionalized and because of the rapid expansion, will end up being here to stay.

 

 

I guess from a buyers standpoint, although I'm not a super high grade collector, I would be more than a little peeved if I discovered I paid a premium for a book that I could have spent $25, $35, or whatever the current rate is, to have manufactured through pressing into a 9.6 or a 9.8 book.

 

I'm still not sure that knowledge of pressing is as prevalent as some say. If it were then I would think many of the high end collectors would be buying up 9.0, 9.2, and 9.4 books themselves to press on their own and save themselves some dough. Why would anyone pay such a massive premium for something they could do on their own for a few extra dollars? Provided, of course, that they also don't have any issues with pressing.

 

 

 

 

 

[joeypost]

 

So your argument is more Darwinian in nature - evolve.

 

If, as many are saying, the hobby has evolved, then what prohibits CGC from evolving with it. Even though pressing was going on prior to CGC, it was never as prevalent as it is right now. What prohibits them from changing or "evolving" as you say, in accordance with how things are now?

 

To some degree yes. And I'm surprised that people on the pro pressing side aren't just blunt with the realities as well.

 

There's nothing that prevents further evolution and for someone to assume or argue differently is foolish. This hobby will continue to evolve. The problem will be is unless someone comes up with a cost effective way to detect, no one ever will and you will have tens of thousands of pressed books in the current and existing marketplace. It involves a problem of valuation and money. People who have pressed books now will not want to see a position adopted that devalues all of their books. I think it's becoming institutionalized and because of the rapid expansion, will end up being here to stay.

 

 

I guess from a buyers standpoint, although I'm not a super high grade collector, I would be more than a little peeved if I discovered I paid a premium for a book that I could have spent $25, $35, or whatever the current rate is, to have manufactured through pressing into a 9.6 or a 9.8 book.

 

I'm still not sure that knowledge of pressing is as prevalent as some say. If it were then I would think many of the high end collectors would be buying up 9.0, 9.2, and 9.4 books themselves to press on their own and save themselves some dough. Why would anyone pay such a massive premium for something they could do on their own for a few extra dollars? Provided, of course, that they also don't have any issues with pressing.

 

 

 

 

 

Time and effort.

[MrBedrock]

NOD

...really has no presence at cons...

...no real hobby recognition...

...mostly a joke...

...has accomplished little...

...it needs to be scrapped.

...misguided...

...irrelevant...

...divisive...

...hasn't really done anything...

...draconian...

..."police force"...

...the organization has failed...

 

Cliff Notes

[alecholland]

 

So your argument is more Darwinian in nature - evolve.

 

If, as many are saying, the hobby has evolved, then what prohibits CGC from evolving with it. Even though pressing was going on prior to CGC, it was never as prevalent as it is right now. What prohibits them from changing or "evolving" as you say, in accordance with how things are now?

 

To some degree yes. And I'm surprised that people on the pro pressing side aren't just blunt with the realities as well.

 

There's nothing that prevents further evolution and for someone to assume or argue differently is foolish. This hobby will continue to evolve. The problem will be is unless someone comes up with a cost effective way to detect, no one ever will and you will have tens of thousands of pressed books in the current and existing marketplace. It involves a problem of valuation and money. People who have pressed books now will not want to see a position adopted that devalues all of their books. I think it's becoming institutionalized and because of the rapid expansion, will end up being here to stay.

 

 

I guess from a buyers standpoint, although I'm not a super high grade collector, I would be more than a little peeved if I discovered I paid a premium for a book that I could have spent $25, $35, or whatever the current rate is, to have manufactured through pressing into a 9.6 or a 9.8 book.

 

I'm still not sure that knowledge of pressing is as prevalent as some say. If it were then I would think many of the high end collectors would be buying up 9.0, 9.2, and 9.4 books themselves to press on their own and save themselves some dough. Why would anyone pay such a massive premium for something they could do on their own for a few extra dollars? Provided, of course, that they also don't have any issues with pressing.

 

 

 

 

 

Time and effort.

 

If they are taking the time and effort to look for books in the first place, how much more time and effort would be involved in making a phone call to you or anyone else that offers pressing services and then shipping the books out to be pressed and submitted for grading?

 

That argument doesn't make much sense to me. It seems like you are saying that people are willing to pay many multiples of guide for a book they could have purchased in a slightly lower grade and then had pressed into a higher grade simply because they are too lazy to make a phone call and box up a book(s).

[jbud73]

The reality has come to this: If you don't want someone else to take advantage of you, you need to be pressing books. Whether you agree or disagree, if you don't press major books, many times you are facilitating the wealth of a select few who will target you and purchase books knowing you don't press.

 

That's really what it all boils down to. I press now for that exact reason. Set aside all of the histrionics, soapbox preaching and ethical debates...when someone buys a 9.4 from me for $800, presses it into a 9.6 and flips it for $3000, things need to change in my selling model. Period. Nobody likes playing the sucker or the mark, and I'd rather have that profit riding on my hip. I don't know too many people in this hobby, collectors or dealers, who are in this to make other people money.

 

Andy, the buyer flip side that very succinct analogy is why I stopped pursuing 9.6 and a lot 9.4 slabs. The multiple $$ at a certain point on any book's market axis is based on a perception of supply and demand that now has the ability to be manipulated. The trend right now is for the perception to remain in tact, whether its true or not. But NDP at its core has the ability to impact the relative rarity of ANY COMIC BOOK IN HG. True not EVERY book is press-able, but in theory ANY book is. When I started to think is these terms, I left the HG slabbed market chase ; many collectors have remained evidenced by the continued strength of the market, its not as hot as its once was, but its still pretty healthy overall. The utility of SA BA in HG just stopped making perfect sense from an intuitive perspective.

[Zonker]

The reality has come to this: If you don't want someone else to take advantage of you, you need to be pressing books. Whether you agree or disagree, if you don't press major books, many times you are facilitating the wealth of a select few who will target you and purchase books knowing you don't press.

 

That's really what it all boils down to. I press now for that exact reason. Set aside all of the histrionics, soapbox preaching and ethical debates...when someone buys a 9.4 from me for $800, presses it into a 9.6 and flips it for $3000, things need to change in my selling model. Period. Nobody likes playing the sucker or the mark, and I'd rather have that profit riding on my hip. I don't know too many people in this hobby, collectors or dealers, who are in this to make other people money.

 

Gresham's Law, Comic Book Corollary

 

Just as bad money drives out the good, so too do pressed books drive out the unpressed.

 

[Davenport]

 

Gresham's Law, Comic Book Corollary

 

Just as bad money drives out the good, so too do pressed books drive out the unpressed.

The Laws of Pressing.

 

Perfect. (thumbs u I wonder how many Laws there are?

 

Another...

Goodhart's Law: When a grade becomes manipulated, it ceases to be a measure of Grade.

[MrBedrock]

Evans' Law - If I like a comic book I buy it.

[seanfingh]

 

Gresham's Law, Comic Book Corollary

 

Just as bad money drives out the good, so too do pressed books drive out the unpressed.

The Laws of Pressing.

 

Perfect. (thumbs u I wonder how many Laws there are?

 

Another...

Goodhart's Law: When a grade becomes manipulated, it ceases to be a relevant measure of grade.

 

Buridan's Pressed Ass

 

A collector presented with equal CGC graded books, but paralyzed by not knowing whether both, one or neither have been pressed, will die of longing, able to purchase none.

[Davenport]

One more Law Of Pressing, this one word-for-word...

 

Keynes's Law: Demand creates its own supply.

[sckao]

The Giordano Knot

 

Needing to sell a DC comic book but not wanting to leave potential money on the table for someone else.

[Sal]

Sal's Statute:

There are a lot of stupid people mucking up the Internet with their inanity.

[seanfingh]

The Giordiano Knot

 

Needing to sell a DC comic book but not wanting to leave potential money on the table for someone else.

 

That's clever.

[seanfingh]

Sal's Statute:

There are a lot of stupid people mucking up the Internet with their inanity.

 

Muck you.

[MrBedrock]

Sborock's Comic (ala Schrodinger's Cat) - A comic book in a slab, unknown, and undetectable may be either pressed or unpressed at the same point in time.

[sckao]

 

The Poster Principle

 

The amount of posts you have is inversely proportional with having a life outside these boards.

 

 

[Zonker]

to all

[VintageComics]

This thread is chock full if fun.

 

Nowhere in life does any single person ask more of a person than in comic collecting.

 

Comicocide.

 

When all people who hate pressed comics start pressing all of their own books to prevent pressers from getting at them.

 

 

Nick, I feel a tinge of sadness when you say that you wouldn't join NOD over something like this.

 

This is really a little too much.

 

Short of altogether stopping pressing all together, how far is anyone going to have to go to please anti-pressing advocates to make them happy? Is there anything else that can be done to satisfy anti pressing advocates?