How in the world did this go unnoticed???

[alecholland]

Short of stopping pressing all together, how far is anyone going to have to go to please anti-pressing advocates to make them happy? Is there anything else that can be done to satisfy anti pressing advocates?

 

I guess nobody wanted to answer this question?

Well, by qualifying your question with "Short of stopping pressing all together", you've already tried to steer anti-pressers towards some middle ground and thus made the question not really worth answering.

 

But to answer your question, I guess CGC putting a PLOD on books known to be pressed would be a good start.

 

Since CGC doesn't consider the type of pressing we're talking about to be restoration, I don't know if that would ever happen.

 

What I have been suggesting is that they simply add the designation "PRESSED" to the blue label of a book they know to be pressed. To me, that seems like the best solution.

 

This is straight from the page on their website that talks about a commitment to hobby enrichment:

 

"To Build Advantages for the Collector... by revealing the unique characteristics of each book we grade, so that a more informed buyer can confidently pay as much as he believes the book to be worth to his collection."

 

Wouldn't adding the designation "PRESSED" to the label, even if pressing is not considered restoration help to further that goal? Wouldn't pressing be a "unique characteristic"? Wouldn't knowing if a book was pressed or not help the buyer be more informed so that they can "confidently pay as much as he (she) believes the book to be worth to his (her) collection"?

 

I'm really not sure why this can't be done. It seems to be to be in accordance with the goals of CGC. It would help make potential buyers of a book more knowledgeable in regard to their potential purchase, and if there is nothing wrong with pressing to achieve a higher grade, then the people who press books would have nothing to worry about. Everyone is happy!

 

Everyone talks about how this hobby is evolving, but they don't seem to want CGC to evolve. If pressing is here to stay and it is becoming more and more prevalent, then I think a company like CGC needs to evolve in order to keep up with where the hobby is heading. Even if it is only 1/3 of the collectors who care whether a book has been pressed or not, no business can afford to lose 1/3 of their potential customers, IMHO.

 

It's just a thought. You guys are clearly more knowledgeable about all this stuff than me.

 

Big time

 

The bolded part is particularly incisive. (thumbs u

Once again, you are ignoring the fact that pressing is generally undetectable(at least when it is done right). Oh, you can tell when someone has mashed a book so flat that it puts a crease in the spine, or if someone has burned the color out of a book, but what about the large group of books which you can't tell?

 

 

Susan Cicconi seems to suggest on her website in the section that describes her policy on pressing, that she can detect whether a book has been pressed or not. She doesn't come out directly and say it, but she does state:

 

"I am confident that under most circumstances I can determine whether a book is unrestored and in its original state or has been worked on by an amateur or professional."

 

Why would she put that in her policy on pressing unless she feels that she could detect pressing as well?

 

Plus, what about disclosure? Regardless of how anyone feels about pressing, I thought many of us believed it should be disclosed. Why couldn't CGC add a section on their submission form asking whether or not the person submitting the book knows if it has been pressed?

[alecholland]

Short of stopping pressing all together, how far is anyone going to have to go to please anti-pressing advocates to make them happy? Is there anything else that can be done to satisfy anti pressing advocates?

 

I guess nobody wanted to answer this question?

Well, by qualifying your question with "Short of stopping pressing all together", you've already tried to steer anti-pressers towards some middle ground and thus made the question not really worth answering.

 

But to answer your question, I guess CGC putting a PLOD on books known to be pressed would be a good start.

 

Since CGC doesn't consider the type of pressing we're talking about to be restoration, I don't know if that would ever happen.

 

What I have been suggesting is that they simply add the designation "PRESSED" to the blue label of a book they know to be pressed. To me, that seems like the best solution.

 

This is straight from the page on their website that talks about a commitment to hobby enrichment:

 

"To Build Advantages for the Collector... by revealing the unique characteristics of each book we grade, so that a more informed buyer can confidently pay as much as he believes the book to be worth to his collection."

 

Wouldn't adding the designation "PRESSED" to the label, even if pressing is not considered restoration help to further that goal? Wouldn't pressing be a "unique characteristic"? Wouldn't knowing if a book was pressed or not help the buyer be more informed so that they can "confidently pay as much as he (she) believes the book to be worth to his (her) collection"?

 

I'm really not sure why this can't be done. It seems to be to be in accordance with the goals of CGC. It would help make potential buyers of a book more knowledgeable in regard to their potential purchase, and if there is nothing wrong with pressing to achieve a higher grade, then the people who press books would have nothing to worry about. Everyone is happy!

 

Everyone talks about how this hobby is evolving, but they don't seem to want CGC to evolve. If pressing is here to stay and it is becoming more and more prevalent, then I think a company like CGC needs to evolve in order to keep up with where the hobby is heading. Even if it is only 1/3 of the collectors who care whether a book has been pressed or not, no business can afford to lose 1/3 of their potential customers, IMHO.

 

It's just a thought. You guys are clearly more knowledgeable about all this stuff than me.

 

Big time

 

The bolded part is particularly incisive. (thumbs u

 

That would be the most worthless venture in history. How fast do you think dealers and collectors would be collectively cracking out the "pressed" label books for resubmission?

 

Since pressing cannot be consistently detected if ever, all of these arguments are a moot point.

 

But if that were to happen, I would argue that we should definitely put a pressed label on all Mile High books as well since they also have been pressed after being in stacks for 30 - 40 years.

 

I can't believe the NOD Board of Directors Chairman could make a statement like that.

[Mr. Zipper]

Part of the issue is that there is no meeting of the minds here and people are comparing apples and oranges.

 

Can you tell if a small bend was pressed from the corner of an otherwise high grade book? Probably not and certainly not with consistency.

 

Can you tell if a midgrade book with an assortment of flaws was pressed? Probably with some degree of accuracy. Bends may be pressed out, but colorbreaking creases and small tears will appear unnaturally flat and smooth.

[joeypost]

Short of stopping pressing all together, how far is anyone going to have to go to please anti-pressing advocates to make them happy? Is there anything else that can be done to satisfy anti pressing advocates?

 

I guess nobody wanted to answer this question?

Well, by qualifying your question with "Short of stopping pressing all together", you've already tried to steer anti-pressers towards some middle ground and thus made the question not really worth answering.

 

But to answer your question, I guess CGC putting a PLOD on books known to be pressed would be a good start.

 

Since CGC doesn't consider the type of pressing we're talking about to be restoration, I don't know if that would ever happen.

 

What I have been suggesting is that they simply add the designation "PRESSED" to the blue label of a book they know to be pressed. To me, that seems like the best solution.

 

This is straight from the page on their website that talks about a commitment to hobby enrichment:

 

"To Build Advantages for the Collector... by revealing the unique characteristics of each book we grade, so that a more informed buyer can confidently pay as much as he believes the book to be worth to his collection."

 

Wouldn't adding the designation "PRESSED" to the label, even if pressing is not considered restoration help to further that goal? Wouldn't pressing be a "unique characteristic"? Wouldn't knowing if a book was pressed or not help the buyer be more informed so that they can "confidently pay as much as he (she) believes the book to be worth to his (her) collection"?

 

I'm really not sure why this can't be done. It seems to be to be in accordance with the goals of CGC. It would help make potential buyers of a book more knowledgeable in regard to their potential purchase, and if there is nothing wrong with pressing to achieve a higher grade, then the people who press books would have nothing to worry about. Everyone is happy!

 

Everyone talks about how this hobby is evolving, but they don't seem to want CGC to evolve. If pressing is here to stay and it is becoming more and more prevalent, then I think a company like CGC needs to evolve in order to keep up with where the hobby is heading. Even if it is only 1/3 of the collectors who care whether a book has been pressed or not, no business can afford to lose 1/3 of their potential customers, IMHO.

 

It's just a thought. You guys are clearly more knowledgeable about all this stuff than me.

 

Big time

 

The bolded part is particularly incisive. (thumbs u

 

That would be the most worthless venture in history. How fast do you think dealers and collectors would be collectively cracking out the "pressed" label books for resubmission?

 

Since pressing cannot be consistently detected if ever, all of these arguments are a moot point.

 

But if that were to happen, I would argue that we should definitely put a pressed label on all Mile High books as well since they also have been pressed after being in stacks for 30 - 40 years.

 

I can't believe the NOD Board of Directors Chairman could make a statement like that.

 

Why? It is a dead on statement. Instead of doing a CPR on a book all dealers/collectors alike would need to do is re-sub and hope for the best.

[joeypost]

Part of the issue is that there is no meeting of the minds here and people are comparing apples and oranges.

 

Can you tell if a small bend was pressed from the corner of an otherwise high grade book? Probably not and certainly not with consistency.

 

Can you tell if a midgrade book with an assortment of flaws was pressed? Probably with some degree of accuracy. Bends may be pressed out, but colorbreaking creases and small tears will appear unnaturally flat and smooth.

 

The latter book Steve is not one that would be sent in for pressing unless it had a very high dollar value. Most of the time it is a high grade book already that the owner is looking to tweak.

[Mr. Zipper]

Part of the issue is that there is no meeting of the minds here and people are comparing apples and oranges.

 

Can you tell if a small bend was pressed from the corner of an otherwise high grade book? Probably not and certainly not with consistency.

 

Can you tell if a midgrade book with an assortment of flaws was pressed? Probably with some degree of accuracy. Bends may be pressed out, but colorbreaking creases and small tears will appear unnaturally flat and smooth.

 

The latter book Steve is not one that would be sent in for pressing unless it had a very high dollar value. Most of the time it is a high grade book already that the owner is looking to tweak.

 

I agree. But I suppose there are instances where midgrade books with spine roll, water wrinkling or a subscription bend can be vastly improved by pressing, even if it leaves small indicators on other areas of the book.

 

I suspect Susan is referring to these types of cases where she can detect pressing moreso than the cases where someone had a 9.4 and pressed out a small edge bump.

 

[qualitycomix]

Short of stopping pressing all together, how far is anyone going to have to go to please anti-pressing advocates to make them happy? Is there anything else that can be done to satisfy anti pressing advocates?

 

I guess nobody wanted to answer this question?

Well, by qualifying your question with "Short of stopping pressing all together", you've already tried to steer anti-pressers towards some middle ground and thus made the question not really worth answering.

 

But to answer your question, I guess CGC putting a PLOD on books known to be pressed would be a good start.

 

Since CGC doesn't consider the type of pressing we're talking about to be restoration, I don't know if that would ever happen.

 

What I have been suggesting is that they simply add the designation "PRESSED" to the blue label of a book they know to be pressed. To me, that seems like the best solution.

 

This is straight from the page on their website that talks about a commitment to hobby enrichment:

 

"To Build Advantages for the Collector... by revealing the unique characteristics of each book we grade, so that a more informed buyer can confidently pay as much as he believes the book to be worth to his collection."

 

Wouldn't adding the designation "PRESSED" to the label, even if pressing is not considered restoration help to further that goal? Wouldn't pressing be a "unique characteristic"? Wouldn't knowing if a book was pressed or not help the buyer be more informed so that they can "confidently pay as much as he (she) believes the book to be worth to his (her) collection"?

 

I'm really not sure why this can't be done. It seems to be to be in accordance with the goals of CGC. It would help make potential buyers of a book more knowledgeable in regard to their potential purchase, and if there is nothing wrong with pressing to achieve a higher grade, then the people who press books would have nothing to worry about. Everyone is happy!

 

Everyone talks about how this hobby is evolving, but they don't seem to want CGC to evolve. If pressing is here to stay and it is becoming more and more prevalent, then I think a company like CGC needs to evolve in order to keep up with where the hobby is heading. Even if it is only 1/3 of the collectors who care whether a book has been pressed or not, no business can afford to lose 1/3 of their potential customers, IMHO.

 

It's just a thought. You guys are clearly more knowledgeable about all this stuff than me.

 

Big time

 

The bolded part is particularly incisive. (thumbs u

 

That would be the most worthless venture in history. How fast do you think dealers and collectors would be collectively cracking out the "pressed" label books for resubmission?

 

Since pressing cannot be consistently detected if ever, all of these arguments are a moot point.

 

But if that were to happen, I would argue that we should definitely put a pressed label on all Mile High books as well since they also have been pressed after being in stacks for 30 - 40 years.

 

I can't believe the NOD Board of Directors Chairman could make a statement like that.

 

Pressing cannot be detected, so if we are going to put a pressing label on the book, we should do it for all books that have been pressed either thru a dry mount press or time and weight. The effect is the SAME.

 

CGC cannot differentiate intentions or HOW a book was pressed, EVEN if they could detect a book was pressed.

 

The point is that individuals should set the example and disclose. Asking CGC to put something on the label makes zero sense at least to me.

 

 

[alecholland]

Short of stopping pressing all together, how far is anyone going to have to go to please anti-pressing advocates to make them happy? Is there anything else that can be done to satisfy anti pressing advocates?

 

I guess nobody wanted to answer this question?

Well, by qualifying your question with "Short of stopping pressing all together", you've already tried to steer anti-pressers towards some middle ground and thus made the question not really worth answering.

 

But to answer your question, I guess CGC putting a PLOD on books known to be pressed would be a good start.

 

Since CGC doesn't consider the type of pressing we're talking about to be restoration, I don't know if that would ever happen.

 

What I have been suggesting is that they simply add the designation "PRESSED" to the blue label of a book they know to be pressed. To me, that seems like the best solution.

 

This is straight from the page on their website that talks about a commitment to hobby enrichment:

 

"To Build Advantages for the Collector... by revealing the unique characteristics of each book we grade, so that a more informed buyer can confidently pay as much as he believes the book to be worth to his collection."

 

Wouldn't adding the designation "PRESSED" to the label, even if pressing is not considered restoration help to further that goal? Wouldn't pressing be a "unique characteristic"? Wouldn't knowing if a book was pressed or not help the buyer be more informed so that they can "confidently pay as much as he (she) believes the book to be worth to his (her) collection"?

 

I'm really not sure why this can't be done. It seems to be to be in accordance with the goals of CGC. It would help make potential buyers of a book more knowledgeable in regard to their potential purchase, and if there is nothing wrong with pressing to achieve a higher grade, then the people who press books would have nothing to worry about. Everyone is happy!

 

Everyone talks about how this hobby is evolving, but they don't seem to want CGC to evolve. If pressing is here to stay and it is becoming more and more prevalent, then I think a company like CGC needs to evolve in order to keep up with where the hobby is heading. Even if it is only 1/3 of the collectors who care whether a book has been pressed or not, no business can afford to lose 1/3 of their potential customers, IMHO.

 

It's just a thought. You guys are clearly more knowledgeable about all this stuff than me.

 

Big time

 

The bolded part is particularly incisive. (thumbs u

 

That would be the most worthless venture in history. How fast do you think dealers and collectors would be collectively cracking out the "pressed" label books for resubmission?

 

Since pressing cannot be consistently detected if ever, all of these arguments are a moot point.

 

But if that were to happen, I would argue that we should definitely put a pressed label on all Mile High books as well since they also have been pressed after being in stacks for 30 - 40 years.

 

I can't believe the NOD Board of Directors Chairman could make a statement like that.

 

Why? It is a dead on statement. Instead of doing a CPR on a book all dealers/collectors alike would need to do is re-sub and hope for the best.

 

It may be a "dead on statement", I just can't believe the the Board of Directors Chairman of the "Network of Disclosure" could make a statement like that. What does his organization stand for?

 

Perhaps they need to change the name to "Network of Selective Disclosure" or something along those lines.

 

It's not the statement, it's who made the statement.

[Monstro]

[qualitycomix]

Short of stopping pressing all together, how far is anyone going to have to go to please anti-pressing advocates to make them happy? Is there anything else that can be done to satisfy anti pressing advocates?

 

I guess nobody wanted to answer this question?

Well, by qualifying your question with "Short of stopping pressing all together", you've already tried to steer anti-pressers towards some middle ground and thus made the question not really worth answering.

 

But to answer your question, I guess CGC putting a PLOD on books known to be pressed would be a good start.

 

Since CGC doesn't consider the type of pressing we're talking about to be restoration, I don't know if that would ever happen.

 

What I have been suggesting is that they simply add the designation "PRESSED" to the blue label of a book they know to be pressed. To me, that seems like the best solution.

 

This is straight from the page on their website that talks about a commitment to hobby enrichment:

 

"To Build Advantages for the Collector... by revealing the unique characteristics of each book we grade, so that a more informed buyer can confidently pay as much as he believes the book to be worth to his collection."

 

Wouldn't adding the designation "PRESSED" to the label, even if pressing is not considered restoration help to further that goal? Wouldn't pressing be a "unique characteristic"? Wouldn't knowing if a book was pressed or not help the buyer be more informed so that they can "confidently pay as much as he (she) believes the book to be worth to his (her) collection"?

 

I'm really not sure why this can't be done. It seems to be to be in accordance with the goals of CGC. It would help make potential buyers of a book more knowledgeable in regard to their potential purchase, and if there is nothing wrong with pressing to achieve a higher grade, then the people who press books would have nothing to worry about. Everyone is happy!

 

Everyone talks about how this hobby is evolving, but they don't seem to want CGC to evolve. If pressing is here to stay and it is becoming more and more prevalent, then I think a company like CGC needs to evolve in order to keep up with where the hobby is heading. Even if it is only 1/3 of the collectors who care whether a book has been pressed or not, no business can afford to lose 1/3 of their potential customers, IMHO.

 

It's just a thought. You guys are clearly more knowledgeable about all this stuff than me.

 

Big time

 

The bolded part is particularly incisive. (thumbs u

 

That would be the most worthless venture in history. How fast do you think dealers and collectors would be collectively cracking out the "pressed" label books for resubmission?

 

Since pressing cannot be consistently detected if ever, all of these arguments are a moot point.

 

But if that were to happen, I would argue that we should definitely put a pressed label on all Mile High books as well since they also have been pressed after being in stacks for 30 - 40 years.

 

I can't believe the NOD Board of Directors Chairman could make a statement like that.

 

Why? It is a dead on statement. Instead of doing a CPR on a book all dealers/collectors alike would need to do is re-sub and hope for the best.

 

It may be a "dead on statement", I just can't believe the the Board of Directors Chairman of the "Network of Disclosure" could make a statement like that. What does his organization stand for?

 

Perhaps they need to change the name to "Network of Selective Disclosure" or something along those lines.

 

It's not the statement, it's who made the statement.

 

Why is that? Because I speak to the reality of what would happen?

 

I didn't say the NOD would support or condone what would happen, only that it would.

[Monstro]

[Transplant]

I think one question is, "If people don't care about pressing and won't lower the amount they would pay, why would someone care if the book said PRESSED on the label?"

[joeypost]

Part of the issue is that there is no meeting of the minds here and people are comparing apples and oranges.

 

Can you tell if a small bend was pressed from the corner of an otherwise high grade book? Probably not and certainly not with consistency.

 

Can you tell if a midgrade book with an assortment of flaws was pressed? Probably with some degree of accuracy. Bends may be pressed out, but colorbreaking creases and small tears will appear unnaturally flat and smooth.

 

The latter book Steve is not one that would be sent in for pressing unless it had a very high dollar value. Most of the time it is a high grade book already that the owner is looking to tweak.

 

I agree. But I suppose there are instances where midgrade books with spine roll, water wrinkling or a subscription bend can be vastly improved by pressing, even if it leaves small indicators on other areas of the book.

 

I suspect Susan is referring to these types of cases where she can detect pressing moreso than the cases where someone had a 9.4 and pressed out a small edge bump.

 

 

No argument here. The books Susan is talking about may only make up 5-10% of the books that are pressed. Even if it is 50%, you are still going to miss half of the pressed books out there. No one will ever attempt to undertake that as part of their business model.

[Mr. Zipper]

Hi alec:

 

I certainly respect your opinion and your right to it.

 

It just seems a bit surprising to me that someone who was never a member or expressed any interest in supporting the group is so disappointed in what you perceive as some sort of failure of its leadership.

 

If you had any emotional capital in what the group brought to the table, why didn't you join up or at the least come over to the NOD board and make your voice heard?

 

 

regards - Steve

[joeypost]

I guess the idea is to squeeze as much money out while you can, cause eventually this new "business model" will crumble.

 

Not true. I sell my books for considerably lower than what a buyer hopes is an unpressed book. Difference is I disclose. It would be really funny and sad, if someone opts to pay more for a book they think is not pressed when in reality it is.

[Monstro]

I guess the idea is to squeeze as much money out while you can, cause eventually this new "business model" will crumble.

 

Not true. I sell my books for considerably lower than what a buyer hopes is an unpressed book. Difference is I disclose. It would be really funny and sad, if someone opts to pay more for a book they think is not pressed when in reality it is.

 

Actually I edited my post.

[Flaming_Telepath]

Hi alec:

 

I certainly respect your opinion and your right to it.

 

It just seems a bit surprising to me that someone who was never a member or expressed any interest in supporting the group is so disappointed in what you perceive as some sort of failure of its leadership.

 

If you had any emotional capital in what the group brought to the table, why didn't you join up or at the least come over to the NOD board and make your voice heard?

 

 

regards - Steve

 

Steve,

 

This was tried on me yesterday and it still isn't washing. Why would you be 'surprised' that somebody has an opinion on something even through they're not part of that something?

 

I mean, we do it every day here with regard to CGC...and none of us work there. Why should NOD be any different?

 

What about our opinion on Marvel's dire output? We don't work there, either. Or dealer shenanigans? The vast majority of us don't work with those dealers.

 

Some of the problem with NOD is that they do come across as being somewhat...precious, shall we say?

 

And this is coming from somebody who wished nothing more than you had succeded.

[alecholland]

 

Why is that? Because I speak to the reality of what would happen?

 

I didn't say the NOD would support or condone what would happen, only that it would.

 

No, I understand the reality of what might happen. I guess I felt like your statement sounded kind of defeatist, especially if the goal of your organization is to promote disclosure of any form of restoration or enhancement known to exist.

[Mr. Zipper]

I mean, we do it every day here with regard to CGC...and none of us work there. Why should NOD be any different?

 

What about our opinion on Marvel's dire output? We don't work there, either. Or dealer shenanigans? The vast majority of us don't work with those dealers.

 

The difference is that NOD is actually a member organization that you could join to be a part of the policy and decision making process. It's not the same as critiquing Marvel's odious output over which you have no control, except to stop buying it.

 

Sure, you certainly have a right to criticize from the outside and we'll take honest feedback from where ever we can get it. But if you guys are so passionate about the group's direction and positions, get off the sidelines and join up... or at least come to the NOD Boards and grind it out there.

 

[alecholland]

Hi alec:

 

I certainly respect your opinion and your right to it.

 

It just seems a bit surprising to me that someone who was never a member or expressed any interest in supporting the group is so disappointed in what you perceive as some sort of failure of its leadership.

 

If you had any emotional capital in what the group brought to the table, why didn't you join up or at the least come over to the NOD board and make your voice heard?

 

 

regards - Steve

 

Well, for one, I'm a comic collector. I didn't know I had to be a member of NOD to express my opinion about the organization or the comments of one of it's members here on the boards. I have emotional capital in the hobby of comic collecting and what is happening within the hobby I love, is that not enough?