Rare! Scarce! Etc.!

[action1kid]

On the point of qualifiers, as an underground comix collector, I view print number as the clincher and any/all examples absent of this important data point which use information to validate the claim as qualifiers.

 

Taken from another perspective, there are examples of underground comix which are known to have had less books printed than the 50 required for the rare category. How then can we place books like MF52 or Adventure 40 in the same category?

 

Well how far back are you going with the comparible Underground comics?

 

I don't have a guide in front of me, but my recollection is one from 1962 and the other from 1963 (the one from 1963 I don't recall the exact numbers printed - less or slightly more than 50)

 

My point being that the early More funs are 23 years older whichs contributes to a real degree there scarcity even with much larger print runs.

[comicwiz]

On the point of qualifiers, as an underground comix collector, I view print number as the clincher and any/all examples absent of this important data point which use information to validate the claim as qualifiers.

 

Taken from another perspective, there are examples of underground comix which are known to have had less books printed than the 50 required for the rare category. How then can we place books like MF52 or Adventure 40 in the same category?

 

Well how far back are you going with the comparible Underground comics?

 

I don't have a guide in front of me, but my recollection is one from 1962 and the other from 1963 (the one from 1963 I don't recall the exact numbers printed - less or slightly more than 50)

 

My point being that the early More funs are 23 years older whichs contributes to a real degree there scarcity even with much larger print runs.

 

I'll come back to your point on relative scarcity, but first, my question is how do your reconcile that gap of unknown print numbers for a book printed even 100 years earlier, with a comparative example which only had 42 known copies printed?

 

Should the two even be in the same category?

[DarkKnightReturns]

Out of curiosity has anyone ever tried to collect as many pics of the different Action 1's or Tec 27's that still exist ?

 

sure, quite a few have

 

Any websites you know of ?

 

 

[action1kid]

The Action 1s you can find in our archieves, many have been posted.

Certainly the top 10 cgc Action 1s have been posted. Im not on top of the Detective 27s as I am with the Action 1s.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Of course, the marketing concept "Rare!" and "Scarce!" et al, is abused endlessly by jagweeds looking to make money. I have seen X-Men #1 (1991) described as "Rare!" which, of course, is the ultimate joke.

 

The real problem with determining scarcity is the jealous secrecy with which collectors guard even the knowledge of their books. These people are hostile to scholarly study of this subject, because they're afraid that this might negatively affect their market value, or they just think someone might target them for solicitation or theft.

 

So, we have to fall back on public appearances to get an idea of what really exists, which, of course, doesn't paint the whole picture, sometimes by a long shot.

 

Gerber did the best he could with what he had, and it was, as mentioned before, an immense effort considering the time period. But it needs desperately to be updated, and owners of books need to be made to understand that their anonymity can be perfectly maintained...and yes, if people know "what's out there", it *might* have an impact on prices...but it's likely it will not, and these owners need not be identified in any way except to the scholar compiling the information.

 

Keeping things secret may be great for individuals, but it's poor form for the community. A scholarly study CAN be done. This is a long established practice in other fields, and there are lists of most extremely scarce items, and their grades, available to everyone.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The Action 1s you can find in our archieves, many have been posted.

Certainly the top 10 cgc Action 1s have been posted. Im not on top of the Detective 27s as I am with the Action 1s.

 

I wish there was some sort of....Detective27kid...who was knowledgeable about such things...

 

[action1kid]

On the point of qualifiers, as an underground comix collector, I view print number as the clincher and any/all examples absent of this important data point which use information to validate the claim as qualifiers.

 

Taken from another perspective, there are examples of underground comix which are known to have had less books printed than the 50 required for the rare category. How then can we place books like MF52 or Adventure 40 in the same category?

 

Well how far back are you going with the comparible Underground comics?

 

I don't have a guide in front of me, but my recollection is one from 1962 and the other from 1963 (the one from 1963 I don't recall the exact numbers printed - less or slightly more than 50)

 

My point being that the early More funs are 23 years older whichs contributes to a real degree there scarcity even with much larger print runs.

 

.I'll come back to your point on relative scarcity, but first, my question is how do your reconcile that gap of unknown print numbers for a book printed even 100 years earlier, with a comparative example which only had 42 known copies printed?

 

Should the two even be in the same category?

 

Unless D.C has records of those print runs I cant. Clearly I am making educated[i hope] guesses from the limited records we do have and my own perspective of collecting over a long period of time.Never did I state these are fact but merely the direction it looks like it is going from the information I [we have] so far. Is there any evidence that there is alot More of the More Fun Run than previously thought any more than my asertation and limited evidence that it is scarce?

[DarkKnightReturns]

The Action 1s you can find in our archieves, many have been posted.

Certainly the top 10 cgc Action 1s have been posted. Im not on top of the Detective 27s as I am with the Action 1s.

 

I wish there was some sort of....Detective27kid...who was knowledgeable about such things...

 

 

...but has he kept pics of all the tec 27's for sale/in collections ? G.A.tor ?

[comicwiz]

Of course, the marketing concept "Rare!" and "Scarce!" et al, is abused endlessly by jagweeds looking to make money. I have seen X-Men #1 (1991) described as "Rare!" which, of course, is the ultimate joke.

 

The real problem with determining scarcity is the jealous secrecy with which collectors guard even the knowledge of their books. These people are hostile to scholarly study of this subject, because they're afraid that this might negatively affect their market value, or they just think someone might target them for solicitation or theft.

 

So, we have to fall back on public appearances to get an idea of what really exists, which, of course, doesn't paint the whole picture, sometimes by a long shot.

 

Gerber did the best he could with what he had, and it was, as mentioned before, an immense effort considering the time period. But it needs desperately to be updated, and owners of books need to be made to understand that their anonymity can be perfectly maintained...and yes, if people know "what's out there", it *might* have an impact on prices...but it's likely it will not, and these owners need not be identified in any way except to the scholar compiling the information.

 

Keeping things secret may be great for individuals, but it's poor form for the community. A scholarly study CAN be done. This is a long established practice in other fields, and there are lists of most extremely scarce items, and their grades, available to everyone.

 

 

I never understood how independent research on scarcity/rarity and any "competitive edge" concerns could possibly fall into the same sentence - if anything, by keeping this information close to the vest would do significant harm to a comics lore value and the absence of its history in the collectors conscience would translate into complete disinterest and obscurity.

[comicwiz]

On the point of qualifiers, as an underground comix collector, I view print number as the clincher and any/all examples absent of this important data point which use information to validate the claim as qualifiers.

 

Taken from another perspective, there are examples of underground comix which are known to have had less books printed than the 50 required for the rare category. How then can we place books like MF52 or Adventure 40 in the same category?

 

Well how far back are you going with the comparible Underground comics?

 

I don't have a guide in front of me, but my recollection is one from 1962 and the other from 1963 (the one from 1963 I don't recall the exact numbers printed - less or slightly more than 50)

 

My point being that the early More funs are 23 years older whichs contributes to a real degree there scarcity even with much larger print runs.

 

.I'll come back to your point on relative scarcity, but first, my question is how do your reconcile that gap of unknown print numbers for a book printed even 100 years earlier, with a comparative example which only had 42 known copies printed?

 

Should the two even be in the same category?

 

Unless D.C has records of those print runs I cant. Clearly I am making educated[i hope] guesses from the limited records we do have and my own perspective of collecting over a long period of time.Never did I state these are fact but merely the direction it looks like it is going from the information I [we have] so far. Is there any evidence that there is alot More of the More Fun Run than previously thought any more than my asertation and limited evidence that it is scarce?

 

I'm not trying to single you out, but I raised this example to illustrate how complex it can be to pin down a formula for scaricty/rarity without knowing the actual print numbers. There are some other examples in the comix chronology appearing in this dated GPA newsletter.

 

I'm an advocate for research, and have always enjoyed this element of collecting even more than the acquisition aspects. Relative scarcity and assumptions are one thing. Though it never ceases to amaze me how little thought people put into making claims of scarcity/rarity without knowing the data points needed to accurately and definitively advance such claims.

[action1kid]

On the point of qualifiers, as an underground comix collector, I view print number as the clincher and any/all examples absent of this important data point which use information to validate the claim as qualifiers.

 

Taken from another perspective, there are examples of underground comix which are known to have had less books printed than the 50 required for the rare category. How then can we place books like MF52 or Adventure 40 in the same category?

 

Well how far back are you going with the comparible Underground comics?

 

I don't have a guide in front of me, but my recollection is one from 1962 and the other from 1963 (the one from 1963 I don't recall the exact numbers printed - less or slightly more than 50)

 

My point being that the early More funs are 23 years older whichs contributes to a real degree there scarcity even with much larger print runs.

 

.I'll come back to your point on relative scarcity, but first, my question is how do your reconcile that gap of unknown print numbers for a book printed even 100 years earlier, with a comparative example which only had 42 known copies printed?

 

Should the two even be in the same category?

 

Unless D.C has records of those print runs I cant. Clearly I am making educated[i hope] guesses from the limited records we do have and my own perspective of collecting over a long period of time.Never did I state these are fact but merely the direction it looks like it is going from the information I [we have] so far. Is there any evidence that there is alot More of the More Fun Run than previously thought any more than my asertation and limited evidence that it is scarce?

 

I'm not trying to single you out, but I raised this example to illustrate how complex it can be to pin down a formula for scaricty/rarity without knowing the actual print numbers. There are some other examples in the comix chronology appearing in this dated GPA newsletter.

 

I'm an advocate for research, and have always enjoyed this element of collecting even more than the acquisition aspects. Relative scarcity and assumptions are one thing. Though it never ceases to amaze me how little thought people put into making claims of scarcity/rarity without knowing the data points needed to accurately and definitively advance such claims.

 

Because in many instances the data input does not exsist leaving one with the unscientific but at least an observible option of [the educated guess] ?

[G.A.tor]

The Action 1s you can find in our archieves, many have been posted.

Certainly the top 10 cgc Action 1s have been posted. Im not on top of the Detective 27s as I am with the Action 1s.

 

I wish there was some sort of....Detective27kid...who was knowledgeable about such things...

 

I have an archive of about 20 tec 27's (thumbs u

[Timely]

The Action 1s you can find in our archieves, many have been posted.

Certainly the top 10 cgc Action 1s have been posted. Im not on top of the Detective 27s as I am with the Action 1s.

 

I wish there was some sort of....Detective27kid...who was knowledgeable about such things...

 

I have an archive of about 20 tec 27's (thumbs u

 

All your previous copies!

 

West

[DarkKnightReturns]

The Action 1s you can find in our archieves, many have been posted.

Certainly the top 10 cgc Action 1s have been posted. Im not on top of the Detective 27s as I am with the Action 1s.

 

I wish there was some sort of....Detective27kid...who was knowledgeable about such things...

 

I have an archive of about 20 tec 27's (thumbs u

 

All your previous copies!

 

West

No doubt eh

[the blob]

Is there any evidence that there is alot More of the More Fun Run than previously thought any more than my asertation and limited evidence that it is scarce?

--------------

 

No, not really. Back in 2001-2002 or whenever I was hunting around on ebay I did see copies of these pre-spectre/fate issues up and bid on a number of them as they were not that expensive in low grade. It didn't feel like I would have had any problem putting together a big stack of them if I had wanted to go $20-$40 higher on some of my lowball bids. that's the only reason why it "seems" like they're not so uber rare. to me. i haven't looked in a while. since then low grade GA has gotten too rich for my blood (as in too close to OPG).

[Boboset]

The Action 1s you can find in our archieves, many have been posted.

Certainly the top 10 cgc Action 1s have been posted. Im not on top of the Detective 27s as I am with the Action 1s.

 

I wish there was some sort of....Detective27kid...who was knowledgeable about such things...

 

I have an archive of about 20 tec 27's (thumbs u

 

Are you actually serious? If so, I'll trade you my girlfriend for only three of them.

[action1kid]

If she looks like Pavlina Porizkova you got a deal on my end.

[Silver Surfer]

we have the Windex and I have established some "scarcity" assumptions on all the titles I have collected

 

Would love to see that data updated as we sure have seen all kinds of rare books surface in the last year, Tec's, MF's, etc.

[Spider-Variant]

Wow, great discussion everyone. Some good points brought up about even how to quantify numbers.

 

But that in essence is the thing that bugs me. If you can't quantify it, how do you claim it's rare.

 

I guess personally I'd settle for an estimate to get the item in the ballpark. Then such things as a highly-printed modern wouldn't have the Rare or Scarce descriptor.

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

The Action 1s you can find in our archieves, many have been posted.

Certainly the top 10 cgc Action 1s have been posted. Im not on top of the Detective 27s as I am with the Action 1s.

 

I wish there was some sort of....Detective27kid...who was knowledgeable about such things...

 

I have an archive of about 20 tec 27's (thumbs u

 

Bah! You're no Detective27kid....