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USM #5 insanity!

Started by rshale,

23 posts in this topic

OldGuy

OldGuy

Posted
Posted

Circulation numbers for USM:

 

Issues #1-11 - 354,115 each

 

#12-29 - 128,224 each

 

#30 - 97,766

 

And it's up and down from there on without any significant change.

 

#1-4 and 6-11 are just as "rare" as #5.

 

#12-29 are much more "rare" then #5.

 

#30 to present are more "rare" still.

 

I read an article somewhere that discussed this issue specifically and the bottom line is that there is a perception that #5 is rare, when in fact it's no more "rare" then any other issue of 1-11. It's just a case of comic book collectors being comic book collectors.

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lighthouse

lighthouse

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Posted

******Come sit by the fire and let old lighthouse tell ya a story...******

 

For issue #4 of the series, Diamond offered a special deal to its retailers. If your orders for #4 exceeded your orders for some Amazing book that came out about six months before, then they would match the excess amount with free copies.

 

Every retailer with a brain in his head looked at that and went "I can get copies of Ultimate Spider-Man 4 for 56 cents each"...

 

My match number for issue 4 was 14 copies. My order for issue 2 had been 75 copies. My order for issue 3 had been 125 copies. I only had about 40 subscribers for the book at that point, but I felt this was a good book to speculate on. So faced with the almost-free copies of issue 4, I ordered around 180 (giving me a total of around 350 that I received).

 

The orders for #5 came due right as issue 3 was hitting the shelves. The book was taking off, but was not yet a "hot book". There was a lot of Spidey-hatred to get past and three issues was not enough. A lot of Spidey fans had been burned by every Spidey title to come out in the previous four years and it was hard to convince them to even give the book a try.

 

As I sat preparing my order for issue 5, Marvel had just announced their new "no-overprint" policy. They may have announced it the previous month, but with the free match deal it certainly didn't affect my orders of USM. I estimated my subscribers would be at 50 or so when the book (#5) hit the shelves. So then I had to decide how many extra copies to get. I had ordered about 50 extra copies of 2, and about 80 extra copies of 3. I knew I was getting a ton of extra copies of 4, so many that they could never be worth anything. I looked back on recent history and came to this conclusion:

 

Issue 1's were good to speculate on.

Issue 2's were not quite as good to speculate on, but sometimes you caught lightning in a bottle.

Issue 3's were nice to have extra copies if a book got hot. They could usually sell for 2x cover over time.

Issue 4's you might get a little over cover price if a book got hot, but that was it.

No issue 5 ever turned out to be worth anything... at least not until the #1 was a $40+ book.

 

I looked at Witchblade, I looked at JLA, I looked at Preacher, I looked at Powers (I was already getting $18 for the #1 by that point)... I looked at all of these and decided there was just no point in ordering a bunch of extras of #5...

 

So my order for #5 was just 60 copies, the 50 I expected to have subscribers for, plus ten extras to sell to new subscribers who signed up around issue 7 and wanted to backtrack...

 

At the time I felt certain I had made the right call... No issue 5 in recent memory had ever done anything.

 

When issue 4 came out, I gave away free copies to 150 of my subscribers. The goodwill I generated for 56 cents a book was well worth it, and I had 73 subs instead of 50 when issue 5 came out. I went around to other shops and bought up their 5s to fill my own orders, as Diamond was completely sold out.

 

While this is my own unique experience, I imagine you would find similar stories around the country. The combination of free copies of #4, plus Marvel's new no-overprint policy, plus the recent history of issue 5's all combined to result in more demand for issue 5 than was expected. A lot of dealers likely didn't take advantage of the free copies of #4, but those dealers are the ones who never speculate on a book and their effect on supply is negligible. The dealers who do speculate, the ones who do overorder to meet anticipated future demand... we probably all did much the same thing. confused-smiley-013.gif

 

And those extra 4's? Yeah... I sold over 100 of them at $14 each to another dealer... smile.gif

 

I know that a lot of folks hear "supposedly there was a low print run" and automatically jump to the conclusion that they are missing stockpiles, or dealer collusion ala Surfer 4... but there is a very legitimate reason why the print run on 5 was lower than what would have normally occurred after issues 1-4.

 

I now return you to your regularly scheduled threads...

'House

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
Posted
Circulation numbers for USM:

 

Issues #1-11 - 354,115 each

 

#12-29 - 128,224 each

 

#30 - 97,766

 

And it's up and down from there on without any significant change.

 

And from these circulation numbers, USM is a HOT book bringing in TONS of NEW readers? foreheadslap.gif

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lighthouse

lighthouse

Posted
Posted
Circulation numbers for USM:

 

Issues #1-11 - 354,115 each

 

#12-29 - 128,224 each

 

I read an article somewhere that discussed this issue specifically and the bottom line is that there is a perception that #5 is rare, when in fact it's no more "rare" then any other issue of 1-11. It's just a case of comic book collectors being comic book collectors.

 

Those circulation numbers are annual averages, and are not accurate for individual issues. While it is probably true that there were more copies of #5 printed than of #25, issue #5 absolutely had a lower print run than issues 3, 4, 6, 7, and 8.

 

Lower than issue 3 because Marvel was still overprinted on issue 3 and was not by issue 5.

Lower than issue 4 because of the buy-one-get-one-free deal offered to retailers on issue 4.

Lower than issue 6 because the title was climbing in popularity and issue 6 was the first real chance for dealers to adjust.

Issue 7 was printed higher than 6, and issue 8 was printed higher than 7. The first issue to have a smaller print run that its predecessor was probably issue 9.

 

It's also fairly well known that the two months of Marvel's no-overprint policy, they did a terrible job estimating damages. Almost every Marvel book that was released during the first eight weeks after the policy took effect is shortprinted, because Marvel didn't know how many extra copies they needed to cover damages. By the third month of releases, Marvel had worked out how many extra copies they needed to print to be able to cover reported damages without qualifying as "overprinting". But the first two months almost every retailer in the country had at least one or two titles that they didn't even get their full orders. I received four damaged copies of Uncanny X-Men that month and could not get replacements. At the time there was talk of class-action suits against Marvel for not providing us with the copies we ordered. Ultimate Spider-Man 5 is the only significant book affected, but every Marvel title from that eight weeks is short-printed...

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FlyingDonut

FlyingDonut

Posted
Posted
Circulation numbers for USM:

 

Issues #1-11 - 354,115 each

 

#12-29 - 128,224 each

 

I read an article somewhere that discussed this issue specifically and the bottom line is that there is a perception that #5 is rare, when in fact it's no more "rare" then any other issue of 1-11. It's just a case of comic book collectors being comic book collectors.

 

Those circulation numbers are annual averages, and are not accurate for individual issues. While it is probably true that there were more copies of #5 printed than of #25, issue #5 absolutely had a lower print run than issues 3, 4, 6, 7, and 8.

 

Lower than issue 3 because Marvel was still overprinted on issue 3 and was not by issue 5.

Lower than issue 4 because of the buy-one-get-one-free deal offered to retailers on issue 4.

Lower than issue 6 because the title was climbing in popularity and issue 6 was the first real chance for dealers to adjust.

Issue 7 was printed higher than 6, and issue 8 was printed higher than 7. The first issue to have a smaller print run that its predecessor was probably issue 9.

 

It's also fairly well known that the two months of Marvel's no-overprint policy, they did a terrible job estimating damages. Almost every Marvel book that was released during the first eight weeks after the policy took effect is shortprinted, because Marvel didn't know how many extra copies they needed to cover damages. By the third month of releases, Marvel had worked out how many extra copies they needed to print to be able to cover reported damages without qualifying as "overprinting". But the first two months almost every retailer in the country had at least one or two titles that they didn't even get their full orders. I received four damaged copies of Uncanny X-Men that month and could not get replacements. At the time there was talk of class-action suits against Marvel for not providing us with the copies we ordered. Ultimate Spider-Man 5 is the only significant book affected, but every Marvel title from that eight weeks is short-printed...

 

Curse you House! Letting FACTS get in the way of a good crash theory!

 

Can anybody post Heidi McDonald's article from this weeks CBG? There are some seriously sobering numbers in there.

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delekkerste

delekkerste

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i have always thought that #5 was one of the best usm covers along with 20,28,33 juggle.gif

 

All the USM covers featuring only Spidey look almost exactly the same. Being one of "the best USM covers" is about as low a bar as an artist needs to clear. And yes, I have every issue except for the first few (but have those in TPB and/or HC format), so I am qualified to make this statement.

 

Gene

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blowout

blowout

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All the USM covers featuring only Spidey look almost exactly the same. Being one of "the best USM covers" is about as low a bar as an artist needs to clear.

 

Add to that all the ASM covers during the last few years. What it adds up to is the worst decade ever for Spidey covers. frown.gif

 

What are you doing Marvel? No more dull 'pin-up' covers, bring back the ACTION.

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Mr. Zipper

Mr. Zipper

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All the USM covers featuring only Spidey look almost exactly the same. Being one of "the best USM covers" is about as low a bar as an artist needs to clear. Gene

 

The same can be said for Punisher, Daredevil and most other Marvel titles. The same generic poses in the same color schemes. sleeping.gifsleeping.gifsleeping.gifsleeping.gif

 

Remember when comic covers were actually a preview specific to the story inside? I guess the boys and girls in marketing told them that stories don't sell, "hot" art does.

 

If they didn't actually put numbers on the front, you could never remember which issue is which boo.gif

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joe_collector

joe_collector

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Remember when comic covers were actually a preview specific to the story inside? I guess the boys and girls in marketing told them that stories don't sell, "hot" art does.

 

I think there is probably a much simpler explanation: publishing schedules.

 

To actually plan and project timelines for covers that apply to the internal story and action is tough work, while telling the artist to "just pump out some generic pose covers when you have the time" is a breeze.

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Mr. Zipper

Mr. Zipper

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Remember when comic covers were actually a preview specific to the story inside? I guess the boys and girls in marketing told them that stories don't sell, "hot" art does.

 

I think there is probably a much simpler explanation: publishing schedules.

 

To actually plan and project timelines for covers that apply to the internal story and action is tough work, while telling the artist to "just pump out some generic pose covers when you have the time" is a breeze.

 

This is certainly true if the cover artists is not the same as the story artist. Perhaps I'm oversimplifying, by why couldn't the story artist do the cover at the same time he/she did the story? It worked for 50 years or so. confused-smiley-013.gifflowerred.gif

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